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James Carrion, "The Rosetta Deception," July 20, 2014

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manxman said:
Constance.

He hasnt had one since he started his pursuit of mr Friedman in 2008, 6 years of whining that 'stan' hadnt read his evidence before calling dis-info merchant, yada yada.
Just maybe Stan has been dealing with government myth maker's like Oberg et al for years, maybe as a writer Stan knows and understands the volume of actual writing a freelance writer/journalist has to sell to survive, maybe Stan realised quickly that in Carrions case, he would be homeless and hungry in weeks if he had to live on what he sold, same as with the other small debunking army of ex government force's who have given themselve's the title of freelance journalist's, Pinty et al, it is pretty obvious their main incomes come from undisclosed source's.
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I thought you went back to hide under your bridge, troll...
 
Constance said:
Constance said: ↑
I personally don't think he owes you one. Do you think you'll get one by continuing to prosecute your imagined case against him in this forum?




They why continue the prosecution of your 'case' here?
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Well, he obviously reads the thread, so why not?

Personally, I find this cult of Stan hilarious, and hope it keeps up as it illustrates a certain point.
 
"The Truth" is about an event that has no barring or effect on anyone’s life. Knowing “The Gospel According to James” isn’t going to change the price of gas, the stock market, or hem lines on skirts. It’s not be featured in celebrity news nor MSM, folks might write about it in the Paranormal/Unexplained Phenomenon blogs but it’s not going to cause books about “Roswell” to be torn off the shelves and burned in everyone’s back yards.

What too many of us (And when I say we, I also mean me) forget that this is just entertainment and trivia entertainment – Infotainment if you will. If this isn’t fun nor is it putting money in your pocket than why bother. Why take this so seriously? There’s a line between passion and obsession, and unhealthy passion and unhealthy obsession.

Let’s not forget this is for intellectual sport – not a death match.
 
Fedora Chronicles said:
"The Truth" is about an event that has no barring or effect on anyone’s life. Knowing “The Gospel According to James” isn’t going to change the price of gas, the stock market, or hem lines on skirts. It’s not be featured in celebrity news nor MSM, folks might write about it in the Paranormal/Unexplained Phenomenon blogs but it’s not going to cause books about “Roswell” to be torn off the shelves and burned in everyone’s back yards.

What too many of us (And when I say we, I also mean me) forget that this is just entertainment and trivia entertainment – Infotainment if you will. If this isn’t fun nor is it putting money in your pocket than why bother. Why take this so seriously? There’s a line between passion and obsession, and unhealthy passion and unhealthy obsession.

Let’s not forget this is for intellectual sport – not a death match.
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I am hearing from you that perhaps life would be better if we peasants just left the Latin studies to the priests and attended mass while living out our dreary existence not thinking for ourselves... and those that dare study their Latin by candlelight under the covers at night just waste their lives away and have no fun...

Maybe you don't care to search for truth-you are just in it for the entertainment value and to bring some joy to your mundane existence...and are more than happy to be entertained by the high priest who strives to keep your Latin proficiency at a Kindergarten level..
 
Stanton Friedman was being disingenuous [exact quotes below] to imply he uses the scientific method but Carrion doesn't, when Friedman hasn't done peer reviewed research ever??? I seriously doubt his masters thesis was even peer reviewed??? (That only happens if he was part of a funded research project that is also submitted for peer review with his name as one of the authors.) He's never been an academic doing peer review, and he has NOT worked in classified projects since the 1970's! He's "out of it", wink, with no published peer review and a masters degree.

When Gene asked SF about the Ghost Rockets being a deception, SF said quoting: "I think he's full of baloney about that. The ghost rockets were real. That's why we sent Jimmy Doolittle over there." [Chris O'brien interjected that the deception was real and manufactured, but Stanton interrupted with the following about Carrion's past works instead of addressing that point.]

SF said: "Well, I'm anxious to read the book, but I've read others of the things that Carrion has spoken about, and I found he was full of baloney. I hate to put it that way, but, uh, yeah, we delicatessen guys got to speak up."

I think it's fair to say: SF was being dismissive, and condescending, and somewhat "holier than thou" about James Carrion and his book, when SF also wrote:
Gene Steinberg said:
Here's another response from Stan to James:
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One would think that the Ghost Rockets as portrayed by James in his book are the sumtotal for ufology.I don't buy it. There is a context for pretty much everything in Life. James I can't seem to find a bio on you that makes you an expert on the scientific method, nor any degrees in science, nor seemingly any employment as a scientist.,Do you belong to any professional scientist organizations.? Have you published in scientific journals? How can one debate your book without reference to the huge amount of information that shows there is far more to the question of UFOs than is encompassed in your book? I did indeed say I expected baloney because you had previously published baloney. Most leapards don't change their spots.

Stan Friedman​
 
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James Carrion said:
Check out the following link: The Pond (intelligence organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , then look in the Mitrokhin archive for any reference to this secret organization. Just because it is not in the Mitrokhin Archive does not mean it never existed or happened.

As for an axe to grind, it is not with MUFON, or the throngs of believers that frequent UFO conferences, it is with the powers that have perpetrated the UFO myth through deception.
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The Pond: Running Agents for State, War, and the CIA — Central Intelligence Agency

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing.
 
James Carrion said:
Maybe Gene can comment here on the accuracy of this quote from Stan from the interview so I don't have to waste my time listening to it all over again. "How about this as a prediction, the book itself is disinformation"

Now let's examine how scientific that statement is:

First the Merriam-Webster definition of "prediction" = the act of saying what will happen in the future
Second the Merriam-Webster definition of "disinformation" = false information that is given to people in order to make them believe something or to hide the truth

So what Stan is saying is plain and simple "I predict that the information in this book is not factual, it is meant to mislead and to hide the truth"

Now look up two other definitions for me - "libel" and "slander" ....
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I have got to be honest Mr Carrion, a Prediction is not a statement of fact. It is a statement of possibilities. Freidman's prediction could turn out to be wrong, or correct. I honestly don't think there is slander here & he is basing his opinion on your own past discussions.

The second thing I would bring attention to here is to say, so what. If Freidman comes back with a review of your book which is unflattering then simply respond in specifics. If his critique is shown to be flawed then address it in a scientific way, that way he must follow his own rules and reply accordingly.
Regarding the comments made in relation to the time period covered in your book, which is narrow, it is difficult for people to integrate all the events that have occurred (there are now well managed databases with hundreds of thousands of cases) to think there is a human deception at the heart of each one.

I would ask, do you feel the whole phenomena is the child of official intelligence agencies or do you think there are genuine, unexplained, highly strange events occurring that do fall into the UaP category?
Thanks in advance Mr Carrion.
 
mike_thoth said:
I have got to be honest Mr Carrion, a Prediction is not a statement of fact. It is a statement of possibilities. Freidman's prediction could turn out to be wrong, or correct. I honestly don't think there is slander here & he is basing his opinion on your own past discussions.

The second thing I would bring attention to here is to say, so what. If Freidman comes back with a review of your book which is unflattering then simply respond in specifics. If his critique is shown to be flawed then address it in a scientific way, that way he must follow his own rules and reply accordingly.
Regarding the comments made in relation to the time period covered in your book, which is narrow, it is difficult for people to integrate all the events that have occurred (there are now well managed databases with hundreds of thousands of cases) to think there is a human deception at the heart of each one.

I would ask, do you feel the whole phenomena is the child of official intelligence agencies or do you think there are genuine, unexplained, highly strange events occurring that do fall into the UaP category?
Thanks in advance Mr Carrion.
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What Stan said about my past research is not a prediction, it was and remains defamatory.

If you read Stan's column in the Mufon journal he doesn't present new evidence , instead he criticizes anything that does not support his own views. When he retires from Ufology he can cross over to movie critic where you can exhibit the same irresponsible nonscientific behavior.
To answer your question, there is no one phenomenon..there are events...some of which are human deception and some which have not been explained...you can't throw all into one big bucket of evidence..
 
Constance said:
Who does that?
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Uhh... have you ever listened to the Paracast? A *lot* of people do that. They come up with a scenario for one case, make wild conclusions, and then make the evidence of other cases fit that conclusion forcibly. The amount of square pegs that have been shoved into round holes in this field is ridiculous.
 
OK, I'm a bit tired, been reading for a while, hope this makes sense. There's an interesting chapter in the book 'Defence of the realm' - the official history of MI5. The chapter deals with Venona, it's absolute secrecy, its use in drawing out agents and suspected agents helped by American communists in the US. It talks of escape routes by soviet agents through Mexico and operations in Scandanavia and Australia during the same time period as Mr Carrion discusses. It talks of close work between the US and the UK regarding this matter- well worth reading...
 
Constance said:
JC: Where and when? Please quote him directly.
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In this forum and on this very thread. I quote:" One would think that the Ghost Rockets as portrayed by James in his book are the sumtotal for ufology.I don't buy it". So in other words Stan believes the Ghost Rockets were a UFO event to be lumped in with Roswel, the Flatwoods Monster, the Betty and Barney Hill abduction and any other case he endorses
 
James Carrion said:
In this forum and on this very thread. I quote:" One would think that the Ghost Rockets as portrayed by James in his book are the sumtotal for ufology.I don't buy it". So in other words Stan believes the Ghost Rockets were a UFO event to be lumped in with Roswel, the Flatwoods Monster, the Betty and Barney Hill abduction and any other case he endorses
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That's not what I get from SF's statement. He expresses there the same sense I have received in reading your posts here (and the posts of several people who support you and your position) -- i.e., the belief that if the ghost rockets can be dismissed as possible 'ufos' by claiming [without persuasive and comprehensive evidence] that they were all perpetrated by US alphabet agencies and the US military, then a death blow has been dealt to the rest of ufo research leading to the ETH (i.e., that many ufos have demonstrated technology advanced beyond our own; that they are evidently intelligently operated; and that they are "not ours").
 
So we don't have to see if your theory is correct it's already out there as fact:
UFO Alien Alleged Military Deception 42714 | UFO Sightings|UFO News 2014

New York UFO: UFO Alien Alleged Military Deception Former head of MUFON, James Carrion has a new book out, he's claiming that the US and UK created UFO myth as part of a deception tactic in the opening salvos of the Cold War. "The Ghost Rocket wave of 1946 was part and parcel of this deception. Yes, US and UK taxpayers, your Governments created the UFO myth - all in the name of national security. Source: Special Thankx to our friend Norio Hayakawa Follow The Magic Thread: The Rosetta Deception
Gotta love how years of study by other folks gets tossed out the window overnight by one sensational book that's just been released.
Norio will be your new best friend.
 
James,
Folks will still buy your book and hey Stan just had a heart attack and surely you would understand the term give a bloke a break as life to short ! and both work together ! Furthermore, the Rocket story did you trace any documentation to Argentina or Brazil while doing your research?
 
Constance said:
That's not what I get from SF's statement. He expresses there the same sense I have received in reading your posts here (and the posts of several people who support you and your position) -- i.e., the belief that if the ghost rockets can be dismissed as possible 'ufos' by claiming [without persuasive and comprehensive evidence] that they were all perpetrated by US alphabet agencies and the US military, then a death blow has been dealt to the rest of ufo research leading to the ETH (i.e., that many ufos have demonstrated technology advanced beyond our own; that they are evidently intelligently operated; and that they are "not ours").
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Whoever said anything about dealing a death blow to UFO research? Why do you feel so threatened if a period of events that has traditionally been thought to be UFO related is explained away using official documentation? How does this possibly threaten any other series of events? I find this to be highly interesting. Do Big Foot believers feel threatened every time science discovers a never before documented animal? No they rejoice because it gives them hope that the hairy creature will one day be discovered as well. But if a UFO event is explained as mundane, the UFO crowd closes ranks and get all prickly because they feel their world growing smaller and their beliefs threatened. It is why Ufology is equated to a belief system - just like you don't mess with the Bible when you are among Christians or the Koran when you are among Muslims, God or Allah forbid you mess with UFO belief when you are among believers.

Also I take it you and all the other Stan supporters here have read my book when you say "without persuasive and comprehensive evidence"? Not that it matters as it would go in one ear and out the other just like a creationist reading Darwin's On the Origin of Species.
 
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