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I've got some bad news, disclosure is happening..

jratcliff

Skilled Investigator
Apparently, it has become quite popular to state that 'disclosure is never going to happen'. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that some people (including myself) are going to have to start eating some crow.

The reason for this sudden bird buffet is that, well, disclosure is happening. Now, let me be clear. When I say 'disclosure', I do not mean that the US President is going to hold a press conference and state during a prime time address to the nation, 'Folks, a flying saucer did crash in Roswell, we recovered the debris and alien bodies, and have been lying to you about it for over six decades.'

If that's what you mean by 'disclosure', then you are correct, that's probably never going to happen.

If, by disclosure, you mean 'A mile wide flying saucer like the one in 'District 9' or 'V' is going to hover over the capital and shout howdy to the world population.', well, no, that kind of disclosure is probably not going to happen either. Since the jackasses flying the UFOs have been conducting a fairly rigorous cover-up for centuries I see no reason to assume that their modus-operandi is going to change any time soon.

However, if by 'disclosure', you mean that a general acceptance of the fact that there is a real mystery, a real phenomenon, occurring which is truly unknown, not of man-made origin, and is taken seriously by serious people around the world, well, that kind of disclosure is happening right now.

As someone who has been following this topic for decades I have to say that I am shocked. I never expected it to happen in my life-time that world governments would release their UFO files to the public. I never expected pilots, generals, and politicians to go on TV and state, in a very serious way, that this phenomenon is real, represents a true mystery, and deserves serious consideration.

Just today, the modern day equivalent we have of a celebrity scientist (a Carl Sagan level personality) stated, as fact, that the UFO phenomenon is real.

Let's be clear. This is a very, very, big deal. Not only did he state that it was real, he also pointed out that the phenomenon might well represent technology not hundreds of years beyond us, but perhaps millions. That the technology might best be compared to us as we compare ourselves to an insect. That the technology might represent advanced artificial intelligence, advanced biotechnology, physics and robotics, and might be so strange we literally cannot grasp it with our tiny little minds.

This, is a very big deal.

I'm old enough (I will turn 50 next year) to remember a time when admitting you were interested in UFOs held about as much cachet as telling someone you really enjoyed child pornography. It was not a topic for polite conversation.

Meanwhile, I was at a meeting of our local 'Lions Club' last week, a group about as staid and conservative as you can get, and not only did the topic of UFOs come up (not by me) but there we a strong interest and general consensus that there was something real behind it.

Leslie Kean's book, statements by Kaku, repeated releases and announcements of world governments on the topic, and a general acceptance of the phenomenon not only in the general population but even mass media is indeed a watershed event and absolutely does constitute 'disclosure'.

If you don't think, that in total, the statements made by Kaku, the book by Kean, the MOD releases, French government releases, Brazil releases, and other 'disclosure' events by various governments around the world doesn't constitute a major, and I mean major, shift in the general acceptance of this phenomenon as representing a true mystery, I think you doth protest too much.

Ok, so the US gummint isn't going to cop to what they know. So, the jack-asses flying the UFOs are going to keep things on the down-lo. But, as someone who has witnessed decades of ridicule, decades of debunking, and decades of people generally ignoring this topic and the evidence behind it, I must say this is truly a watershed event. A major change in the view, not only of the general population, but of governments and mass media.

For those of you who claimed 'disclosure' is never going to happen. You are simply wrong. Disclosure is happening right in front of your very eyes, and this is what it looks like.

John
 
I see what your saying and I tend to agree.

One could say disclosure has been happening for 60 years or more, however I dont see them coming out and saying it. Its more like subliminal.
 
I think you are overstating what Kaku said - he never explicitly said "There are aliens visiting us" He basically just said that 5 percent of cases can't be explained and are thus "unidentified" in the literal sense. If you cornered him and asked him to step out on a limb about aliens he'd hedge his bets and would be unwilling to give a "I truly believe it" sort of answer. And don't forget, Kaku has made his popular fame by writing books about "science fiction"physics and such, so talking about the POTENTIAL for alien life in the universe is right up his alley.

His line of reasoning goes something like this: Kaku believes, in principle, that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe -> 5 percent of UFO cases are unsolved -> any alien intelligences that could reach us would be very very far ahead of us. -> If those 5 percent of cases WERE real ufos, then those aliens would be very far advanced. That's basically all he's saying as I understand it.

As for all the releases of various UFO files, I'd say it proves the opposite of your thesis - If anything, the documents show that governments don't have any smoking gun or super-duper cases that rocked their worlds. Personally I believe that such cases never get released, but either way the docs don't have proof of anything concrete in them.

Public awareness of the scientific possibly of alien life probably HAS increased over the decades as well as actual belif that it is happening, but that's a separate issue from whether or not it FACTUALLY is happening. The public believes a lot of silly shit with no real evidence behind it.

So basically we are left with a lot of documents, officials, and pilots and a famous scientist all admitting that some cases are not readily identifiable. We knew this 50 years ago.
 
Well the word "disclosure" has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

But I agree with your sentiments. I found the Kaku interview on main stream media pretty stunning too.

EDIT, DirtyApe, John never said anything about aliens.
 
Indeed it was fantasttic to hear Kaku say "this is as close to a smoking gun as well get", of course the interviewer (at least the one i saw) just kept asking ET ET ET, but Kaku brought up some excellent cases and the level or credibility of the witnesses. I was really excited , the first time in a LONG time i felt that way. Good on Kaku.
 
The hunt for exo-planets in general and the Kepler telescope in particular are your disclosure projects. It's only a matter of a few years and we'll have a truly solid estimate on how many planets, Earth-sized planets and Earth-like planets there are in the galaxy.
 
Well the word "disclosure" has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

But I agree with your sentiments. I found the Kaku interview on main stream media pretty stunning too.

EDIT, DirtyApe, John never said anything about aliens.

I agree with Gareth here - you're creating your own definition to the word disclosure. Perhaps you mean acceptance of an hypothesis?

However, I take saying
which is truly unknown, not of man-made origin
as being alien of some kind or another. Something which is far from proven - posited by some, yes, but no hard proof exists.
 
Gotta go with what DDA, Gareth and Angel said. on this one. :cool:Of course I'm still of the opinion that there are ufo's but not aliens piloting them.
 
Gotta go with what DDA, Gareth and Angel said. on this one. :cool:Of course I'm still of the opinion that there are ufo's but not aliens piloting them.

In two minds Dimensional-Eth-UEMPD /AI or Military special operation projects using some type of avionic and emp devices which enable some type of cloaking mechanism. Disclosure will only happen

1. The world is heading for a so called 'EMP STORM' of massive proportions.;)

2. The military experimental craft crashes into a Major City.:(

3. War with some other threat besides the Earths human population (Independence Day on a worse scale and no "bloody chance old chap".;) Mind you I rather enjoy listening to Gene and guest host on the paracast and Don & Richard on Darkmatter is better than disclosure because they tell it the way it is no BS.
Lets hope they are kind enough to share:p

Ja Love,
BF
 
Maybe this will be what disclosure will look like
jaime%20and%20reed.jpg
 
I don't recall saying anything about aliens. I'm just talking about an unknown phenomenon involving seemingly technological craft which are not the product of humans. I call it the 'NUH', the 'Not-Us-Hypothesis'.

And, as far as redefining the word disclosure, I don't think I"m doing that either. I am defining what, in my mind, constitutes a sufficient level of disclosure. When many governments around the world open their UFO files and government officials speak on the record, even if those governments are not the United States, that most definitely constitutes a degree of 'disclosure'. If by 'disclosure' you mean exclusively the US government, well I agree that's not likely to happen any time soon.

Probably the development I am most pleased by is that Kaku made the point that the source of this phenomenon could represent technology, and consciousness, which is not decades, or hundreds, of years in advance of us, but perhaps millions. If you look at where we are already going with robotics, artificial intelligence, and biotechnology, and try to extrapolate that out a million years (which you really can't) the result could be something so bizarre and strange we could barely comprehend it.

Since the UFO phenomenon is so bizarre and strange we can barely comprehend it, I find statements like that to resonate quite well.

John
 
I don't recall saying anything about aliens. I'm just talking about an unknown phenomenon involving seemingly technological craft which are not the product of humans. I call it the 'NUH', the 'Not-Us-Hypothesis'.

That's pretty much like saying Intelligent Design is not a different way of saying Creationism. The definition of alien amounts to "not-us."
 
I forget who the guest was, or maybe it was a co-host that said "Disclosure with a capital 'D' will not happen... but disclosure with a little 'd' might." I'm paraphrasing here. But the general idea is that yes, some small tidbits of information might be leaked (releasing of certain government files) but there will be no smoking gun.

As far as the generalized acceptance of the phenomena goes, we're at a point (humans) of intellectual development that gives us a great deal of information. For the religious, there is the Pope saying "hey it's not impossible." For the scientists there is Kaku saying "hey, it's not impossible." So hey, it's not impossible that there are other planets out there with life on them. Those words are a comfort and validation to some people, a revelation to others and for some people on the fringe those words are evidence of a worldwide conspiracy and coverup. To me, they are stating the obvious.

Do people believe that Unidentified Flying Objects exist? Yes. But without a smoking gun, we'll never be able to source them. And if any of the various governments have those smoking guns, rest assured that no Disclosure will happen until each and every other various government has a piece of that smoking gun as well.
 
>>The definition of alien amounts to "not-us."

Yes, that's one way to look at it. And, I've argued that point in the past when people get all hung up about the ETH. However, I can name a whole slew of 'not-us' ideas that don't represent aliens in the conventional sense. Aliens, in the conventional sense, implies evolved creatures like you or me, who hopped into a spaceship, and flew here in 4D space-time as we know it, largely conforming to the laws of physics as we understand them.

I see very little evidence to support this notion in the UFO enigma. Ultimately I don't know what UFOs are, but from what I have been able to gather to date, is that they are seriously, seriously, f**king strange.

I note that you sign your posts with the word 'skeptical'. I like to think I'm pretty skeptical too, so hopefully we are on the same wavelength. One thing I'm really skeptical about is the idea that this bizarre phenomenon represents nothing more than secret gummint aircraft. Is that your suggestion? My suggestion is that they are something very weird, truly unknown, and a general mystery to the human population.

John
 
>>The definition of alien amounts to "not-us."

Yes, that's one way to look at it. And, I've argued that point in the past when people get all hung up about the ETH. However, I can name a whole slew of 'not-us' ideas that don't represent aliens in the conventional sense. Aliens, in the conventional sense, implies evolved creatures like you or me, who hopped into a spaceship, and flew here in 4D space-time as we know it, largely conforming to the laws of physics as we understand them.

I see very little evidence to support this notion in the UFO enigma. Ultimately I don't know what UFOs are, but from what I have been able to gather to date, is that they are seriously, seriously, f**king strange.

I note that you sign your posts with the word 'skeptical'. I like to think I'm pretty skeptical too, so hopefully we are on the same wavelength. One thing I'm really skeptical about is the idea that this bizarre phenomenon represents nothing more than secret gummint aircraft. Is that your suggestion? My suggestion is that they are something very weird, truly unknown, and a general mystery to the human population.

John

My suggestion is that we don't know for sure. Most cases can be explained. There are a few that are not explained, but that's where the differences among people start. Some people insist that they are aliens, others say it's a lost Earthbound civilization, others think is demons, tricksters, secret aircrafts, etc. None of these ideas have any proof. Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face, but there's been no falsifiable evidence presented, so nothing is for sure.
 
Well, as you can see I'm not arguing for any particular hypothesis, other than the hypothesis that it's not us. It doesn't do any good to discuss the cases which can be easily explained away as misinterpretation of natural phenomenon, or simple lights in the sky, etc. I'm referring to cases of huge structured craft, witnessed by airline pilots, detected on radar, and exhibiting flight characteristics which violate the current known laws of physics. Those are the only cases I am referring to, or frankly, am interested in.

I hope that clarifies things.

John
 
John, you make some good points. I don't personally believe that there are aliens piloting craft in "our" skies. But, ya never know and I will keep an open mind. Not to start an argument or open up old "my scientist is bigger than your god mess." But, creationism (to my understanding and I could be wrong) is the "old man in the sky made the earth in six days out on nothing." I don't buy that. However, I do believe (insert name calling such as belieiver in santa claus, tooth fairy and creatinist here) that there is "Conscience purpose" to the universe. So, in that "Narrow" definition I guess some would call me a "creationist" I wouldn't but some (I guess) would. ;)
 
Well, as I said before, I make no claims as to what UFOs 'are', other than I don't think they are, generally speaking, 'us'. I'm not sure how the conversation crept towards religious topics. To be clear, I am, for practical purposes, an atheist. I believe the entire Universe (in total) including any and all of the theoretically possible infinite parallel Universes, collectively, is 'God'.

John
 
John, you make some good points. I don't personally believe that there are aliens piloting craft in "our" skies. But, ya never know and I will keep an open mind. Not to start an argument or open up old "my scientist is bigger than your god mess." But, creationism (to my understanding and I could be wrong) is the "old man in the sky made the earth in six days out on nothing." I don't buy that. However, I do believe (insert name calling such as belieiver in santa claus, tooth fairy and creatinist here) that there is "Conscience purpose" to the universe. So, in that "Narrow" definition I guess some would call me a "creationist" I wouldn't but some (I guess) would. ;)

If one believes that life was started by some sort of entity, be it 8 to 15 billion years ago, or 10 000 to 6000, that is creationism. However, I just brought it up to as an analogy to anyway you dress up the word alien still means alien. I don't want this to devolve into a creationism debate, although if disclosure were to happen, I would love to see how organized religion would dance around it.
 
If one believes that life was started by some sort of entity, be it 8 to 15 billion years ago, or 10 000 to 6000, that is creationism. However, I just brought it up to as an analogy to anyway you dress up the word alien still means alien. I don't want this to devolve into a creationism debate, although if disclosure were to happen, I would love to see how organized religion would dance around it.


Uhh, they might not be the ones dancing! ;)

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Well, as I said before, I make no claims as to what UFOs 'are', other than I don't think they are, generally speaking, 'us'. I'm not sure how the conversation crept towards religious topics. To be clear, I am, for practical purposes, an atheist. I believe the entire Universe (in total) including any and all of the theoretically possible infinite parallel Universes, collectively, is 'God'.

John


I can see your point. I also think it's all God. But, somehow the thought of purpose or intent has become a dirty word to some.
 
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