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Has Kal Korff the famous Bigfoot, Roswell & Meier debunker flipped his lid?

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Interesting that Kal and Meier have 0 votes for credibility. Wonder how it feels to be in the same category as someone you've debunked. Paul is asking for trouble from Kal's imaginary secret agents. They'll fire off a virus that gives his pooter a blue mohawk. Brave he is.

Very hard survey btw. I can't come up with an answer. Corso maybe. Like I said, hard one.
 
A.LeClair said:
Paul is asking for trouble from Kal's imaginary secret agents. They'll fire off a virus that gives his pooter a blue mohawk. Brave he is.
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Yeah, I'm shaking in my boots! :)

As for the blue mohawk, I don't have enough hair left for one of those. ;-)

Paul
 
It's like watching a bunch of 12-year old girls cat-fight. . .

. . . except instead of pre-teen femmes it's a bunch of "grown" men in mid life crisis.

Sad on all sides.

-DBTrek
 
I don't get his kkk remark. Huh? Speaking of Hall of Shame, I don't think Royce has put Kal in there yet....

"“It is not surprising that Paul Kimball would be appearing with one of his fellow ‘KKK’ Hall of Shame Members, Mr. David Biedny. Kimball and Biedny are both part of a small clique and members of their own mutual admiration society. "
 
For the record, please know that BOTH David Biedny and Paul Kimball are the subjects of various exposes now underway, and so far at least one book exposing them which is now being written by a third party. More about this later.
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So, David and Paul, what is going to be exposed about you guys? Oh wait, you can't tell us or you would be exposing yourself.
 
Man . . . torn on this one.

On one hand, I'll admit that Royce and his clique of child-like "who's in, who's out" UFO gang really rub me the wrong way. There's the act of exposing frauds, and then there's the act of trying to run some sort of UFO 'in-crowd' gang by applying social pressure to one's enemies. Royce strikes me as the latter type.

On the other hand . . . Korff's a loud-mouthed, mentally ill, deluded, annoying prick, that badly deserves a reality check.

So who do you pull for in a fight like this? Royce and his bully crowd of grown men that act like 12-year old girls . . . or the loud mouthed mental case?

. . . that's why the field of UFOology is such a joke to most people. Very few "good guys" to pull for.

-DBTrek
 
DBTrek said:
Man . . . torn on this one.

On one hand, I'll admit that Royce and his clique of child-like "who's in, who's out" UFO gang really rub me the wrong way. There's the act of exposing frauds, and then there's the act of trying to run some sort of UFO 'in-crowd' gang by applying social pressure to one's enemies. Royce strikes me as the latter type.

On the other hand . . . Korff's a loud-mouthed, mentally ill, deluded, annoying prick, that badly deserves a reality check.

So who do you pull for in a fight like this? Royce and his bully crowd of grown men that act like 12-year old girls . . . or the loud mouthed mental case?

. . . that's why the field of UFOology is such a joke to most people. Very few "good guys" to pull for.

-DBTrek
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How is Royce a bully? What do you think (if anything) he should do differently? Less name calling perhaps?
 
A.LeClair said:
How is Royce a bully? What do you think (if anything) he should do differently? Less name calling perhaps?
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Yes. I first saw his site when you posted a link to it in these forums (might have been the C2C thread). I went to see his criticisms of Art Bell. Instead of finding legitimate criticism of the man I saw a bunch of one or two sentence quotes with no context.

It's easy to criticise anyone by taking a sentence or two from a larger statement and posting them as if they are self-contained statements. It's extremely dishonest, shameful, and petty . . . but easy.

He calls the man a "crackwhore" of UFOlogy (actually he lacks the balls to call him a crackwhore, instead stating that "someone" has called him a crackwhore), indirectly blames him for the suicides of the Heaven's Gate Cult (again resorting to "some say", like a coward), then dubiously quotes the man using sentence fragments and hearsay.

I'll give you two examples from his site:

"I'm still a reporter. ."
-> Sentence Fragment. This was followed by . . .

"I'm not a reporter. I'm a talk show host..."
-> Another fragment.

The idea is to illustrate that the man is a liar because the two sentence fragments contradict. The problem is, we have no idea what the entire statements say, so this comes off looking like a cheap bully tactic used by a not-so-bright individual.

Even worse, is stuff like this:

" I wouldn't want the listeners to think it wasn't real."

-- Art Bell reportedly to Russel Dowden of SETLAB after Dowden told Bell a picture of an alien was hoaxed by an FX team and he could prove it.

Now we're using what he "reportedly" said (aka what other people claim he said) as criticism. That's straight up bully tactic. That's like me hosting a "David Biedny is a Deluded Liar" web page and filling it with alleged quotes from MH and KKK.

This dude Royce is supposed to be some sort of hero for the community? I don't think so. He's a dim-witted, wannabe, social bully in my not-so-humble opinion. I find it hard to rally behind his efforts.

-DBTrek
 
DBT:

Well, I can't speak for Royce, nor would I presume to. I don't agree with all of his inclusions in the Hall of Fame, although I can't find any Hall of Shame members that I would quibble with. To each their own, however.

For my part, all I did was point out that Korff, who was going after Horn and Santilli for consumer fraud (at least he claimed he was - he's still not actually gotten around to it, which is a pattern with him), had credibility problems of his own, in terms of exaggerating his own accomplishments and credentials. I just don't like hypocrites.

So I pointed it out, and he started his jihad. Since then, I've felt obliged to defend myself, because he attacks me on syndicated radio in Canada and the United States, and I work in the entertainment industry, so I'm not going to let some guy publicly call me a liar without setting the record straight. I often do so with humour, or at least reasonably gentle mockery (compared to what I could use). What has really chuffed my gourd, however, is that Korff never actually responded to my specific criticisms... because he can't. He just won't admit he was wrong, and that to me is worth pointing out, because he is a public figure, open to criticism just like the rest of us.

If that offends you somehow, too bad. If it makes you think that the serious study of the UFO phenomenon (as opposed to ufology) is a lost cause, too bad. There's not much I can do about that. If you think calling a person on exaggerated claims and hypocrisy is wrong, fair enough. I think you're wrong, because guys like Korff need to be rooted out as much as guys like Horn do, or else you're right, no-one will ever really take the UFO phenomenon, whatever it may be, seriously. But it's your call.

Paul
 
paulkimball said:
DBT:
What has really chuffed my gourd, however, is that Korff never actually responded to my specific criticisms... because he can't. He just won't admit he was wrong, and that to me is worth pointing out, because he is a public figure, open to criticism just like the rest of us.

If that offends you somehow, too bad.
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I don't think I referenced you or your writings anywhere in this thread. Why would you assume I'd be offended by you defending yourself?

If it makes you think that the serious study of the UFO phenomenon (as opposed to ufology) is a lost cause, too bad.
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Not at all. I think the adolescent level of the discourse I was referencing trivializes the UFO field in the eye of the public. This trivialization makes it more difficult for the public to accept the field or its members seriously. It's unfortunate when the movers and shakers in a field are the same people destroying its credibility.

There's not much I can do about that. If you think calling a person on exaggerated claims and hypocrisy is wrong, fair enough. I think you're wrong, because guys like Korff need to be rooted out as much as guys like Horn do, or else you're right, no-one will ever really take the UFO phenomenon, whatever it may be, seriously. But it's your call.
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Are you sure you're responding to something I wrote? I don't think it's wrong to call Korff on his lunatic antics. I'm just commenting that in the Royce vs. Korff struggle I see no particular 'good guy' . . . just a dishonest and spiteful guy vs. a dishonest and crazy one. I notice the majority on the forum like to throw in with Royce when he's going on another crusade against [whomever], I just question the wisdom of following that particular individual's lead.

-DBTrek
 
A.LeClair said:
I don't get his kkk remark. Huh? Speaking of Hall of Shame, I don't think Royce has put Kal in there yet....
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Milling around his site, I believe it stands for "Kal Korff's Kritics" but why he would be stupid enough to use such an obviously nefarious set of intials is beyond me. I mean, there's a reason why there's no such thing as the North American Zoological Institiute...
 
DBT:

My apologies for thinking you had included me in with Royce. It was based on Korff's lumping us together as a "clique" (Korff conveniently forgets to mention it's a big clique, encompassing just about everyone involved with the UFO phenomenon, regardless of where we stand on other issues). I will say that I have a different view of Royce than you do, in that I think he does a good job in general, even as we might disagree on certain things (to be expected). But my complaint about Korff was done independent of Royce, which is what Korff, with his goofy claims of a "clique" and "self-admiration society" (ahh... the irony) doesn't get.

I've seen some of Royce's correspondence with Korff, some of which he's posted. If I had to deal directly with Captain Kal (which thank God I haven't), I'd be a little frisky too. :)

Paul
 
CapnG said:
Milling around his site, I believe it stands for "Kal Korff's Kritics" but why he would be stupid enough to use such an obviously nefarious set of intials is beyond me. I mean, there's a reason why there's no such thing as the North American Zoological Institiute...
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Ooops, I used it incorrectly earlier then. I thought is was a joke abbreviation standing for [K]aptain [K]al [K]orff.

My bad.

-DBTrek
 
CapnG said:
Milling around his site, I believe it stands for "Kal Korff's Kritics" but why he would be stupid enough to use such an obviously nefarious set of intials is beyond me. I mean, there's a reason why there's no such thing as the North American Zoological Institiute...
Click to expand...

Ah, very good Capn. Thanks.
 
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