SRL+
Paranormal Adept
Where did you see or hear this?
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Fukushima's melted cores have moved into the earth
- Thread starter stonehart
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
One of the videos I posted, should be a page or two back and in the info about video link on the YouTube page.
All I remember is hearing it discussed, so go through them and you will find the discussion on it.
Point is if TEPCO dropped a rod or not or had a problem with one it is the lest of our problems with that place.
As far as the removal of rods from #4 pool this is in fact going on and we know that the removal is starting with the easy to get undamaged rods.
There is no conformation that TEPCO did indeed drop a rod in the pool but all we know is they have gone damned quite about the removal.
Other point is this .. TEPCO and competence are two words that don't go together very well now do they.
I should have asked what bit you were talking about but hey the preceding 10 pages of this thread should contain what you need to know so happy listening and reading SRL
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SRL+
Paranormal Adept
If something were to happen in the fuel rod removal process, from the holding pool above the reactor, it would be bad, very, very, bad. If, let’s say the holding pool were to be damaged allowing the cooling water to escape, and the fuel rods to catch fire, there would most likely be a die off in the billions of people. I’m not guessing about this. To quote Oregon senator Ron Wyden “there would most likely be a mass extinction in the billions.” That’s what he had to say, after visiting the reactor, and looking for his self. This was not recently, as I recall it was about a year and a half ago. This is not to say what’s occurring there at this very moment is not a catastrophe in progress, however, if those fuel rods caught on fire, there could very well be hell here on Earth within days, and that’s why I asked.
The fall of the Roman Empire was partially due to lead in their water supply. However, that mostly involved the fancy folks. Radiation exposure will most likely be humanity’s downfall, or some super virus. There sure doesn’t seem to be any short supply of evil on this planet now, does there?
The fall of the Roman Empire was partially due to lead in their water supply. However, that mostly involved the fancy folks. Radiation exposure will most likely be humanity’s downfall, or some super virus. There sure doesn’t seem to be any short supply of evil on this planet now, does there?
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
I am with you on this.
You should look through some of the info posted in the thread as there has been a limited melt of the fuel in pools #3 and #4 releasing atomized plutonium over the northern hemisphere.
sorry but I don't remember which post it is that covers this.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I should have asked what bit you were talking about but hey the preceding 10 pages of this thread should contain what you need to know so happy listening and reading SRL
A summation would be nice, though. Would you?
I have to confess that I stopped listening to that guy you post mainly because of his delivery. I don't think you should stop posting his updates (he's really good) - but it might be nice to have a short summary of the facts without having to watch his eye-rolls and hearing him intone 'and the insanity continues' one more time [it's like a hammer to the soul, ya know?] Summary, maybe?
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SRL+
Paranormal Adept
This quote I found particularly alarming …
“If they are MOX fuel, containing 6% plutonium, one fuel rod has the potential to kill 2.89 billion people. If this pool collapses, as Senator Wyden is now saying too, we would face a mass extinction event from the release of radiation in those rods.”
Senator Wyden's concern is with the holding pool collapsing, then the fuel rods catching on fire, sending a radioactive plume into the atmosphere. Either way, if those rods were to catch fire, it would be next to impossible to extinguish them.
There's hundreds of fuel rods in that holding pool. He's talking about just one rod.
Fukushima Is Falling Apart!.. Are You Ready For Mass Extinction? | Peace . Gold . LOVE
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
Correct and very frightening if you stop long enough to think about it.
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
This covers most of the problems and what went wrong as a good starter to understanding the danger.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Sorry for being so querulous, Stonehart. I think I want a graphic novel. Now there's an idea!
Tonight I had a talk with a friend who lives in Washington D.C. I am thunderstruck with the news that they are moving their family to South America - because of Fukishima. Something about that brought it home. Yes I am hearing all the information but it's not sinking in on some immediate level. I tend not to be an alarmist by nature - that may have something to do with it.
Talking with my buddy this evening - father of an infant daughter - and I asked him what he knew about Fukishima and he said he understood about the water (we're in SoCal), but when I mentioned the radiation levels, he didn't know. I think the sense of unreality is precisely because no one is gripped by it - and even if you are, where do you go? There's not really anything one can do but do the prophylactic things. Life doesn't stop.
Tonight I had a talk with a friend who lives in Washington D.C. I am thunderstruck with the news that they are moving their family to South America - because of Fukishima. Something about that brought it home. Yes I am hearing all the information but it's not sinking in on some immediate level. I tend not to be an alarmist by nature - that may have something to do with it.
Talking with my buddy this evening - father of an infant daughter - and I asked him what he knew about Fukishima and he said he understood about the water (we're in SoCal), but when I mentioned the radiation levels, he didn't know. I think the sense of unreality is precisely because no one is gripped by it - and even if you are, where do you go? There's not really anything one can do but do the prophylactic things. Life doesn't stop.
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
I understand what you are saying.
The problem is so big that it is hard to get ones mind around it for sure, but having said that I have been following this since it all started and I am frankly petrified by it.
Like your good self I am not an alarmist but if you are not frightened to death by this then you are not near frightened enough sorry. I have met a number of Japanese family's that have moved here to NZ because of this and the way their government is dealing with the problem.
But in the end there is no place safe you can run to, the southern hemisphere is not going to be "as" affected for now but in time it will be and it matters not if you live in land or on the coast the problem will affect you as well
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I mean it, too - someone could make a hefty bundle with a graphic novel on this. I'm floating the idea - someone should take up the idea. (Send me 1% of the proceeds.
)But, Stonehart, there's no sense to be frightened to death. It is what it is.
The puzzle is why it has been allowed to just 'run it's course'. Which is what it looks like they are doing. It's surreal. Seems like something the Paracast could start focussing on - stir up some dust with this one. Shine a light on. An idea. (And publish that graphic novel!)
Okay, now you ready for one of my stories? It's about radiation. About 7 or 8 years ago I was hiking with some people in the mountains. One couple began sharing that both of them had been afflicted with cancer and had undergone chemo. They were cancer survivors and they felt they had been 're-shaped' at profound physical levels by the whole process - I hope I am conveying their ideas and feelings correctly. Anyway, they then went further - and this was the first time I had heard of this idea (but have subsequently heard it suggested a handful of times) - that they felt that they had undergone a 'mutation' of a kind and that this would make them resistant to the increased radiation that would be on the earth in the future. It's one of those 'woo' idea that get everyone's hackles up on this site - but I don't see it that way.
The idea of radiation increasing substantially has been around for a few decades. The suggested mechanism for that increase has shifted and not been consistent - but the idea of the increase has been consistent. Ideas are important. IMO they don't come from 'nothing'. Historically, if you watch how things and events come to be there are foreshadowings - and there have been consistent foreshadowings of this idea that radiations is going to increase to such high levels that humanity is going to change somehow, 'mutate'.
Life is very resilient - very persistent. I don't float this idea to foster complacency - but it's the questioner in me, the part of me that likes to play with the possibilities. What don't we know? What don't we understand? What will this challenge - and all the other challenges (fomented by humanity or not) that are gathering across the planet - what will this cause to be born? Like the plague during the Middle Ages - something came of that time of chaos and confusion. Something will come of this, too. I wonder what it will be.
flipper
Paranormal Adept
I mean it, too - someone could make a hefty bundle with a graphic novel on this. I'm floating the idea - someone should take up the idea. (Send me 1% of the proceeds.
But, Stonehart, there's no sense to be frightened to death. It is what it is.
The puzzle is why it has been allowed to just 'run it's course'. Which is what it looks like they are doing. It's surreal. Seems like something the Paracast could start focussing on - stir up some dust with this one. Shine a light on. An idea. (And publish that graphic novel!)
Okay, now you ready for one of my stories? It's about radiation. About 7 or 8 years ago I was hiking with some people in the mountains. One couple began sharing that both of them had been afflicted with cancer and had undergone chemo. They were cancer survivors and they felt they had been 're-shaped' at profound physical levels by the whole process - I hope I am conveying their ideas and feelings correctly. Anyway, they then went further - and this was the first time I had heard of this idea (but have subsequently heard it suggested a handful of times) - that they felt that they had undergone a 'mutation' of a kind and that this would make them resistant to the increased radiation that would be on the earth in the future. It's one of those 'woo' idea that get everyone's hackles up on this site - but I don't see it that way.
The idea of radiation increasing substantially has been around for a few decades. The suggested mechanism for that increase has shifted and not been consistent - but the idea of the increase has been consistent. Ideas are important. IMO they don't come from 'nothing'. Historically, if you watch how things and events come to be there are foreshadowings - and there have been consistent foreshadowings of this idea that radiations is going to increase to such high levels that humanity is going to change somehow, 'mutate'.
Life is very resilient - very persistent. I don't float this idea to foster complacency - but it's the questioner in me, the part of me that likes to play with the possibilities. What don't we know? What don't we understand? What will this challenge - and all the other challenges (fomented by humanity or not) that are gathering across the planet - what will this cause to be born? Like the plague during the Middle Ages - something came of that time of chaos and confusion. Something will come of this, too. I wonder what it will be.
This is a great discussion and exactly what we need at this point. Thank you Stonehart Tyger and S.R.L. I am beside my self with joy to hear what you guys think on this catastrophe. For me the most interesting point that you make Tyger is that Fukushima has been allowed to run its course. There are some suggestions that it was deliberately caused. There are the same suggestion with Gulf oil spill, that it was deliberately mishandled in the worst way possible, that it was deliberately caused too. Add on to this that we are constantly being sprayed by toxic substances (see thread "man made clouds") and the only conclusion is that we are living inside a Stephen King novel. I have two final thoughts to add to your comment Tyger. That is the next stage of evolution may come out of our toxic waste. What kills us will feed them. Maybe it is a Dean Koontz novel where the planet is being made ready for someone else to live here.
Science: Bugs in the Reactor - TIME
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
very interesting theory I have to admit ..
So the question remains is this deliberate or is it really in the end a case of corporations leaving things to the last second to do anything about or doing as little as possible because they know full well that if they get any flack from the situation at all the fines (see BP oil spill) are less than what they earn in a day?
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Having worked a bit in the government/corporate arena I would have to say: it's blindness. The best analogy is to a mole. There really is no actual 'sight intelligence' to what behemoth creatures like that do. It's countless 'little decisions' - often rooted in fear - usually always to do with protecting one's job - that make for the big blow-outs.
Conscious choice - not likely. And that goes for conspiracy - except insofar as people in a panic tend to think alike - survival - usually personal. In the end much of what has taken place at Fukishima will be found to have been the perfect storm - of a natural disaster/national psyche/location. Like the Germans in the 1930's who had the shared psyche attributes to make what happened possible - so, too, the working Japanese 'samurai' suit abides by constraints of 'saving face', 'shame', Japanese loyalty to hierarchy - it all played into the drama as it unfolded imo.
In the end, when others came to visit and have a look - what they saw was so bad, there really was nothing to be done. Consider that. From the get-go it was over.
That it is a conspiracy - a 'false-flag' operation - not very likely imo. Who gains in such a scenario? This is a case when rigorous thinking would be an advantage. How many crime investigations look to be one way - and years later, with new evidence, reveal a very different face. This I do know - that what is reported as happening in the press is often far from the reality, even when the facts are all lined up in a row. The conclusions drawn can be very out-of-whack.
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
But why? Who would benefit?
Being allowed to run it's course - if that is what has happened and not genuine panic rooted in ignorance (as much as: Japan must not be made to look foolish, dependent and unable to handle it's own problems) - would be because there really has not been anything that could be done. Imagine that scenario. We can assume that government scientists - of many nations - bound to secrecy, of course - have been consulted. If the consensus is that there is nothing to be done - what a decision. (That much respected phenomenon of consensus needs to be analyzed a bit more closely. Anyone who has worked within a consensus-based entity knows how little 'truth' is often served in such circumstances. Consensus is the wallpaper and paint of house renovation - but I digress.)
In the end, what is undoing this world is the belief in authority - the belief that there are actually people who know what they are doing, who have the answers, and who are actually 'in charge'. I don't even think a Mafia Boss can be confident that he is 'in charge', when it comes to that.
As the novelist wrote at the turn of the last century: "The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain." ~ Ronald Firbank
Treating the BP Oil Spill as a crime scene - who would have benefitted? I would posit that it was mishandled because of ineptitude. Sadly, we will never really know the chain-of-events on the deck of the 'Horizon' that day and the days leading up. The players are dead.
Whenever we get such situations it appears that everyone who could have made faultless calls in the emergency simply were not in charge, not even employed by the organization. How does that happen?
Unfortunately, other voices/interests gained the upper hand in decision making. Monied self-interest - it's a sad story. Hopefully, next time around - after this catastrophe has played itself out - there will be a 'never again' vow.
There will definitely be another kind of world - but in this I am a humanist, in the particular sense that I see the human being as pivotal to this reality. It is we who are thinking it into existence, after all. But that's a whole 'nother topic.
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Apropos to no one, I have this observation: I see the human being in the position of power. If one entertains the idea that the human being is the cause of the world we see, it shifts the dynamic in how one sees the world, humanity and oneself within it all.
Atheists posit no God, but then - nothing. Between existential despair and unbridled egoism the world swings in the agnostic balance.
I think it is curious that it tends to be - or seems to be - those who prefer the atheist/agnostic end of the spectrum that posit aliens, that posit science as an authority, that suspect outside cabal-like forces that are manipulating events in the world. Such thinking always makes the human being a victim - a pawn. To me that is all religion and God writ in another language but pretty much the same thing - and hearkening from another time when such a religious deity driven construct was valuable, even necessary. But not anymore.
Sure the world is full of humans driving their own and sometimes unwittingly another's agenda - so we are manipulated - but we cannot now fail to see that it is the human being who is piping the tune, who says yes or no to that manipulation, to what they will do with their work life, what lies they will agree to support for the sake of a paycheck. Everything we see around us was once a thought. Fukishima exists because of what many someones thought.
To posit a conspiracy makes us less responsible. We can blame the cabal. It's not about our millions upon millions of singular decisions that make the whole mess - or delight.
Atheists posit no God, but then - nothing. Between existential despair and unbridled egoism the world swings in the agnostic balance.
I think it is curious that it tends to be - or seems to be - those who prefer the atheist/agnostic end of the spectrum that posit aliens, that posit science as an authority, that suspect outside cabal-like forces that are manipulating events in the world. Such thinking always makes the human being a victim - a pawn. To me that is all religion and God writ in another language but pretty much the same thing - and hearkening from another time when such a religious deity driven construct was valuable, even necessary. But not anymore.
Sure the world is full of humans driving their own and sometimes unwittingly another's agenda - so we are manipulated - but we cannot now fail to see that it is the human being who is piping the tune, who says yes or no to that manipulation, to what they will do with their work life, what lies they will agree to support for the sake of a paycheck. Everything we see around us was once a thought. Fukishima exists because of what many someones thought.
To posit a conspiracy makes us less responsible. We can blame the cabal. It's not about our millions upon millions of singular decisions that make the whole mess - or delight.
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Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Keep posting, Stonehart!
LINK: Fukushima: what is plutonium and what are the dangers
"AIRBORNE HAZARD
"Plutonium 238, 239 and 240 are highly radioactive but their radiation is in alpha particles, which only travels very short distances and cannot penetrate human skin. Where they are highly dangerous is if they are inhaled. Their radiation causes DNA damage in tissue, which then boosts the risk of cancer. The bone marrow and liver, where plutonium is transported through a blood protein called transferring, are especially vulnerable. Just a dozen milligrams of plutonium are lethal for a human, according to tests on lab animals cited by France's Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN).
Immune Support & Resistance
"INGESTION PERIL
"Other dangers, but for which there is less data, come from exposure to plutonium through ingestion or through an open wound. Plutonium is only eliminated from the body very slowly, though excretion. It takes around 50 years for plutonium to be biologically removed from the skeleton and about 20 years for it be eliminated from the liver, says the IRSN.
"PLUTONIUM LEVELS AT FUKUSHIMA
"According to plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), soil at five sites at the Fukushima plant was found to have plutonium. At least two of these sites had isotopes where there was a "high possibility" of a connection to the accident. But no sample was of a level of contamination that was hazardous for health, it said. France's Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) described the data as being in the same category as "background levels" that are a legacy of atmospheric nuclear bomb tests. Around four tonnes of plutonium were released into the global environment before atmospheric testing ended.
"SOURCE OF FUKUSHIMA PLUTONIUM
"This is unclear. Experts at France's Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) say it could have come from the No. 3 reactor, which uses mixed oxide, or MOX, which comprises plutonium and uranium that has been extracted from spent nuclear fuel and reprocessed. Alternatively, it could have come as a fissile byproduct from burning uranium in the No. 1 and 2 reactors. "
flipper
Paranormal Adept
I did not cause the Gulf oil spill. I did not cause Fukushima. No one asked me if they should drill in the deep sea or even if they should build a nuclear plant here in Canada. If they had ask I would have said," No." If you ask anyone on the forum they could run the world more safely, and better for every living creature on earth. This thinking that we are all responsible for wars and disasters is guilt tripping and manipulation. Our hands are not on the levers of power and we should hold those responsible, at least in our mind, for their disasters that they inflict upon us.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Manipulation towards what ends? Guilt is counter productive. Responsibility for oneself is the game changer. If everyone attended to voting - 100% in the US - and in an informed way, what a game changer for the US and the world. If each person spoke when they saw the fudged numbers, like with Enron - like with the financial 'bundling' - and not just one lone voice who did so over the course of years (and was ignored) - what a game changer. If only one person in a position to have an effect mounted the investigation into the bundling that that one person was delivering the evidence for - what a game changer. One person - it would have taken only one person at every step of the chain reaction to break the 'spell'.
We rely on each other to be responsible at every juncture. I cannot be in Congress - I need all those individuals to be responsible. Just as you say, I can't be on the 'Horizon' - but every step of the way there were individuals who could have made other decisions, could have spoken up, could have said 'no'.
How do nuclear plants get built, how do pipelines get built, how do 'illegal' wars get started - how does it all happen? Through individuals making choices. I would prefer the individuals making those choices have a sense of responsibility to the whole of humanity - that they carry that as a burden - and live with the consequences.
How did the US refrain from moving on Syria - as we were so harrowingly close to doing that I had beads of sweat breaking on my forehead? Because 75% of the American public (or some amazing number like that) - across all political persuasions - voiced a resounding 'no' in poll after poll. The US government pulled back from a brink that had we gone over would have been as calamitous as a failed Cuban Missile Crisis.
Believing one is never part of this great movement of humanity - why should a sense of accountability suddenly kick in when the explosion happens? 'I never was responsible up to the point of the explosion - I never felt it was my business to mention the problems - I couldn't say anything because I would lose my job - I have this job because I have shown that I follow orders, never complain and do what I'm told.' It's all by the little, unattended cuts that the gangrene sets in. 'But I wasn't anyone powerful - it's not my fault what happened - I wasn't in charge.' But you are in charge in your world, wherever you are. If everyone stood up and said: 'I will participate only on my terms, not the terms laid down by the one who by chance scooped up the most sticks' - what a game changer that would be.
I have some insight into the massive social problems that beset western Germany when unification happened. An entire society had to absorb another society that had no sense of taking care of themselves - no sense of accountability.
I watch people in other countries who are victims of disasters, and - except for Japan in the aftermath of the tsunami - the victims find the western cameraman and plead to be saved by 'the world'. It won't happen. They have to organize themselves, they have to build the latrines - and if they don't understand how, they have to go in search of the information on how to do it. They are responsible - but they have lived feeling they are not responsible for anything. They are victims - waiting for the authority, the ones 'in charge' - to make it all right, tell them what to do. Or they are living with a sense of entitlement - others will do this for me - even God. They will get on their knees and pray and be hooted at by the skeptics who yet have the very same world view: this is not my fault, I am not responsible, life is crap - the Bilderburg Group is to blame - the conspiracy-flavor-of-the-month - whatever - 'them'.
Nothing to do with guilt or manipulation - has everything to do with finally taking responsibility for ourselves - and with that, coming to an awareness of our individual power.
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