Food for thought...

[Angel of Ioren]

Ah thank a'h wuz misunnerstood! Actually, I didn't make my point very well. So, let me say this. I absolutely agree and personally find more reason to believe in Christ than I do the space bros. But, that's a different topic and one I don't really want to (personally) discuss here. But, what I meant to say was not that we should not discuss Fatima. I meant (and didn't articulate it very well) that if you are very sincere in your religion and want to have a respectful and thoughtful discussion about your faith...that this is not a good forum for that. But, I could be wrong about that also. I really did not mean to sound as if I thought paranormal discussion of religious events were out of line. I have my own faith and I don't bring it here. Not becuase it doens't stand up. Matter of fact after reading some of the athestic and u.f.o. related post on this board over the years I think it stands up very well. I don't bring it here because this isn't a religous board and people will get their feelings hurt and even get their most sacred beliefs trashed or at least have mud slung at them. I also, don't bring any political dogma (liberal, conservative,ect.) But, that doesn't mean somebody else shouldn't or can't. So, anyway I'm sorry because I don't think I articulated what I was trying to say very well. I don't even think I'm doing a very good job of it now.

Peace.

I wouldn't say you don't bring your faith into the equation Tyder. I would say that you don't specifically say what you actually believe in, but you clearly indicate that you do have some kind of faith, and that isn't a bad thing. It gives us an idea of who you are. Our beliefs are our own and we probably won't know in our lifetime if they are right or not.

 

[MacDaddy]

the sun zig zagged towards the earth.... riiiight.... and i suppose you think a man named jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead? whatever floats yer boat...er... ark.

Pix, you need to have some tolerance. After all, you believe in NWO and 911 conspiracies, just as big a load of junk as anything else on this forum. Is your fallout shelter fully stocked, or can I still sell you some veggie seeds grown on patriotic freedom soil? What a crock!

 

[Cockapoo]

Actually, the "Miracle of Fatima" would be better discussed on a Catholic forum than on a broad based paranormal board. Not being disrepectful but when it comes to matters of personal faith such as being a born again Chrisitan or a Muslim or a Catholic then you need to either be straight out and say you are working to convert people.

I am not working to convert people. I am reporting a well witnessed event that does not seem to have a normal explanation. This forum discusses events that do not have near so many witnesses so why not this one. I must admit that I am a big believer in many of the paranormal events on this forum but I question why there is no equal discussion of events like Fatima with so many more witnesses. I am struggling to make sense of a lot of things but the miracle of Fatima is not one of them. There's just too much evidence that it ocurred. People have been cured of diseases and crippling injuries. The lame have walked and the blind have seen. Would it be more appropriate to discuss these miracles if a spaceman came out of a saucer and performed them? If you don't believe in Fatima then on what basis do you believe anything? Of what earthly good is history if the testimony of 30 thousand is disregarded as just a faith issue? If that is so then everything on this forum is a faith issue.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

Would it be more appropriate to discuss these miracles if a spaceman came out of a saucer and performed them? If you don't believe in Fatima then on what basis do you believe anything? Of what earthly good is history if the testimony of 30 thousand is disregarded as just a faith issue? If that is so then everything on this forum is a faith issue.

To conclude that something anomalous happened in Fátima during 1917 (which I think it did) is quite different from believing in the religious interpretations of what occurred (I don't see it as a religious miracle, because that's an interpretative assumption and not an objective one). It's important to make distinctions because one's opinions might be misunderstood. I do support the discussion of the Fátima issue here, because what was observed and experienced there has great importance to the study of anomalous phenomena. To approach it correctly we must try to get to the original manifestation avoiding the ulterior cultural layers that were added.

 

[Greg M]

It is one of those things, you believe because you want to believe, you grew up with believers, or you have experiences the paranormal. My level of believing has changed from " ya that is interesting", to " oh hell ya, I believe"...( UFO, I question) but like Staton F say, ( rough translation) there are so many car accidents but we don't get pictures of them.. but we know they are real. I think peoples ability sense the paranormal is our basic gut instinct ( many people have forgotten how to trust in that basic skil..... So many people that I have talked with, arent aware enough, that when they walk into a room that they can't read the vibe of the room that's filled with people, ie they can't pick up on the tension in a room. if a person can't pick up on a basic skill like that, so many things will pass them by

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I am not working to convert people. I am reporting a well witnessed event that does not seem to have a normal explanation. This forum discusses events that do not have near so many witnesses so why not this one. I must admit that I am a big believer in many of the paranormal events on this forum but I question why there is no equal discussion of events like Fatima with so many more witnesses. I am struggling to make sense of a lot of things but the miracle of Fatima is not one of them. There's just too much evidence that it ocurred. People have been cured of diseases and crippling injuries. The lame have walked and the blind have seen. Would it be more appropriate to discuss these miracles if a spaceman came out of a saucer and performed them? If you don't believe in Fatima then on what basis do you believe anything? Of what earthly good is history if the testimony of 30 thousand is disregarded as just a faith issue? If that is so then everything on this forum is a faith issue.

Tyder explained what he meant, so don't worry about it.

Having taken a look, I can't find anywhere that lists all the people that have been cured of ailments when visiting Fatima. Do you know where there is any documentation on this?

Also, there are a lot of alternate explanations to the miracle of the Sun when you look here are a few that the faithful will probably think are full of it:

Illuminating the Fatima

CSI | The Real Secrets of Fatima

Super-Miracle Fatima Debunked

Mind you, none of these are from actual scientific journals, but it's an interesting alternate perspective and worth taking a look. I have looked at both sides of the argument, having grown up with stories about Fatima and when I hear the logical explanations, I tend to agree with them.

An interesting cure rate is that of Lourdes, where there were 80000 visitors in one year, with 70 miraculous cures for diseases that often heal themselves. This comes form the documentary "The Root of All Evil."

 

[pixelsmith]

Ah thank a'h wuz misunnerstood! Actually, I didn't make my point very well. So, let me say this. I absolutely agree and personally find more reason to believe in Christ than I do the space bros. But, that's a different topic and one I don't really want to (personally) discuss here. But, what I meant to say was not that we should not discuss Fatima. I meant (and didn't articulate it very well) that if you are very sincere in your religion and want to have a respectful and thoughtful discussion about your faith...that this is not a good forum for that. But, I could be wrong about that also. I really did not mean to sound as if I thought paranormal discussion of religious events were out of line. I have my own faith and I don't bring it here. Not becuase it doens't stand up. Matter of fact after reading some of the athestic and u.f.o. related post on this board over the years I think it stands up very well. I don't bring it here because this isn't a religous board and people will get their feelings hurt and even get their most sacred beliefs trashed or at least have mud slung at them. I also, don't bring any political dogma (liberal, conservative,ect.) But, that doesn't mean somebody else shouldn't or can't. So, anyway I'm sorry because I don't think I articulated what I was trying to say very well. I don't even think I'm doing a very good job of it now.

Peace.

IMO all religions suck. religion has caused millions of deaths over the years. I have been involved with many of them. I was basically raised in church. I was confirmed, ordained and was a sunday school teacher for over a year. Religion is a scam. period.

tyder001 I am going to guess that you have never read the whole bible. If you did, I doubt that you support everything that it says.

 

[Cockapoo]

Having taken a look, I can't find anywhere that lists all the people that have been cured of ailments when visiting Fatima.

I personally have an aunt that visited the site with a diagnosis of Hodgkins disease, prognosis very negative. On her return she was reexamined and the diagnosis was changed to sarcoidosis a much more bening outlook. The miracles associated with Fatima are well-documented in books that I have read but no longer remember their exact titles. Do your research. The truth is out there.

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

IMO all religions suck. religion has caused millions of deaths over the years. I have been involved with many of them. I was basically raised in church. I was confirmed, ordained and was a sunday school teacher for over a year. Religion is a scam. period.

tyder001 I am going to guess that you have never read the whole bible. If you did, I doubt that you support everything that it says.

This is from a "truther" some of the most gullible beings on the planet. Sorry, you have very very very very very very little credibility.

 

[pixelsmith]

Pix, you need to have some tolerance. After all, you believe in NWO and 911 conspiracies, just as big a load of junk as anything else on this forum. Is your fallout shelter fully stocked, or can I still sell you some veggie seeds grown on patriotic freedom soil? What a crock!

Ever been sexually abused by your trusted pastor/family friend? I was, and continued to have tolerance for 15 more years.

Ever actually READ the bible? It is full of absolute atrocities. If you practiced what the bible preaches, you will be arrested.

No, I do not have a fall out shelter.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

I personally have an aunt that visited the site with a diagnosis of Hodgkins disease, prognosis very negative. On her return she was reexamined and the diagnosis was changed to sarcoidosis a much more bening outlook. The miracles associated with Fatima are well-documented in books that I have read but no longer remember their exact titles. Do your research. The truth is out there.

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

This is from a "truther" some of the most gullible beings on the planet. Sorry, you have very very very very very very little credibility.

adding lots of "very"s does not make you any more credible.... if I am a "truther", then that would make you a what?... a "Lier"?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I personally have an aunt that visited the site with a diagnosis of Hodgkins disease, prognosis very negative. On her return she was reexamined and the diagnosis was changed to sarcoidosis a much more bening outlook. The miracles associated with Fatima are well-documented in books that I have read but no longer remember their exact titles. Do your research. The truth is out there.

That's the thing. I've looked in multiple places and I have found nothing concrete. Journal databases, libraries, the internet - everything leads to anecdotal stories of people being "cured."

With regards to Pixelsmith having "very very very very very very little credibility" because he is a truther, that's irrelevant in this discussion. Even though he and I are on polar opposites on many topics (9/11 theories being one of them), he is as credible as anyone else when it comes to discussing religion, especially as someone who has studied the topic and was at one time religious.

 

[pixelsmith]

I would gladly exchange quotes from the bible with any religious person here. Bible study was one of the ways I finally "saw the light". READ the damned thing cover to cover a couple times and you will understand. Murder, infanticide, genocide, rape, incest, eating shit sandwiches, drinking piss, etc etc... it is all in there.

 

[tyder001]

Yes I have read the bible. I'm even perusing it slowly now. No, I don't agree with everything in it. But, yes I do have beleifs.


I keep my visions to myself....Stevie Nicks.

 

[pixelsmith]

Yes I have read the bible. I'm even perusing it slowly now. No, I don't agree with everything in it. But, yes I do have beleifs.


I keep my visions to myself....Stevie Nicks.

So would you like to quote verse?

 

[tyder001]

Uhhh, no. I never get into arguments with folks who have been hurt by religion. I have no religous agenda of my own. I am quite confident in my own search for meaning and have no reason to convince anybody of anything. But, don't feel slighted because one of my oldest friends became a religious fanatic and I would't quote verses with him either.

 

[MacDaddy]

That's the thing. I've looked in multiple places and I have found nothing concrete. Journal databases, libraries, the internet - everything leads to anecdotal stories of people being "cured."

But anecdotal stories are the very lifeblood of this whole site. Nobody presents any proof of anything. None. It's all stories, some of it told more convincingly than others, but a story is a story and should never be the basis for overturning a common sense view of the way things work. The people on this forum who believe that tricksters and MIBs are real factors in the world are just perpetuating an absurd worldview simply because it entertains them. Hell, it entertains me, too, but as speculative fiction. What if there were time travellers or crypto-terrestrials? Cool! What if trickster gods love to screw with us? Neat! What if the Hopis had special knowledge that we cynical moderns ignore at our peril? Wow! I'm not sure if some of these people actually believe what they're saying, but some obviously do and it just fascinates me to read their comments day after day. I will continue to read these posts (and sometimes insert my own agitating comments) but only for laughs. No useful information has ever been presented here and I doubt that any ever will.

 

[pixelsmith]

Uhhh, no. I never get into arguments with folks who have been hurt by religion. I have no religous agenda of my own. I am quite confident in my own search for meaning and have no reason to convince anybody of anything. But, don't feel slighted because one of my oldest friends became a religious fanatic and I would't quote verses with him either.

I didn't think you would. It tends to make people look pretty stupid for believing such BS. That may seem harsh to say but it is true. If you doubt me, simply read the bible.

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 PM ----------

I find it interesting that you do not agree with everything in the bible. Can you tell me what parts you think are BS? You are not supposed to pick and choose the parts you want to believe. That would be sacrilegious and you will go to hell.

 

[tyder001]

But anecdotal stories are the very lifeblood of this whole site. Nobody presents any proof of anything. None. It's all stories, some of it told more convincingly than others, but a story is a story and should never be the basis for overturning a common sense view of the way things work. The people on this forum who believe that tricksters and MIBs are real factors in the world are just perpetuating an absurd worldview simply because it entertains them. Hell, it entertains me, too, but as speculative fiction. What if there were time travellers or crypto-terrestrials? Cool! What if trickster gods love to screw with us? Neat! What if the Hopis had special knowledge that we cynical moderns ignore at our peril? Wow! I'm not sure if some of these people actually believe what they're saying, but some obviously do and it just fascinates me to read their comments day after day. I will continue to read these posts (and sometimes insert my own agitating comments) but only for laughs. No useful information has ever been presented here and I doubt that any ever will.

Wow, not much respect for the folks round here from you huhh?
Also, while I agree that most of what we talk about here is speculative I disagree that it's all bunk. For the record I don't find you to be exremely agitating. ( a little at times) but not always.

 

[MacDaddy]

Wow, not much respect for the folks round here from you huhh?

I just don't understand how obviously intelligent folks like some of the show's co-hosts can believe or pretend to believe this stuff. It's not for the money, surely. Their own amusement? Fine, but what about the people who actually give credibility to what they're saying and may even make life decisions based on it? A guy like Kieran, he seems like a likeable sort, and he's going to believe in Irish fairytales and just about anything else that floats his way, but that's no excuse for smarter people to feed his delusions for their own amusement.

 

[crabtown]

Nobody presents any proof of anything. None. It's all stories, some of it told more convincingly than others, but a story is a story and should never be the basis for overturning a common sense view of the way things work.

This is exactly my original point in starting this thread. Where's the proof? I keep asking, but nobody ever has a good answer. If the paranormal is real, show me. Make it normal. Pick any one: astrology, MIB's, UFO's, ESP, ghosts, aliens, alien abductions, cattle mutilations, Roswell, God, angels, devils... you name it. Pick one and show me the proof.

 

[pixelsmith]

This is exactly my original point in starting this thread. Where's the proof? I keep asking, but nobody ever has a good answer. If the paranormal is real, show me. Make it normal. Pick any one: astrology, MIB's, UFO's, ESP, ghosts, aliens, alien abductions, cattle mutilations, Roswell, God, angels, devils... you name it. Pick one and show me the proof.

God created everything so all of these things must be real. We know for a fact that god is real cuz the bible tells us so.