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Food for thought...

crabtown

Paranormal Novice
I honestly want to believe in paranormal stuff. Really, it would be so neat if there were aliens, time travelers, ghosts, flying saucers, shapeshifters, transdimensionals, mind-readers, gods, shadow people, clairvoyants, bigfoots... you name it. But here's where I have trouble: Why has there never been a single instance of a provable, undeniable, smoking-gun-obvious, paranormal thing? All of the mysteries in the world since time began have either been proven to have a prosaic explanation, or they remain unexplained. How can that be? Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time.

Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
 

Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time.
<<<<< broken record >>>>>> clicksoundslikethetricksterclicksoundslikethetrickstirclick etc.... :)
 

TClaeys

Skilled Investigator
Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
If you knew it was true then there would be no reason to believe. Believing is easy because no proof of any kind is neccessary, .. so if you want to believe then go right ahead.

But it sounds like you want to know. It sounds like you want convincing empirical evidence which is a very different thing from believing.
 

Frank Warren

The UFO Chronicles
Evenin' CT,

Some might argue that the very question is paradoxical; eventually, everything will have a "prosaic explanation" once we understand it.

For example, the notion the the world was round was once a "paranormal" idea; or that traveling over 40 miles an in a train would kill you; or attaining "flight," much less space flight was impossible. Geocentrism was the status quo in astronomy . . . the list goes on.

Sagan said it best:

"In physics, as in much of all science, there are no permanent truths; there is a set of approximations, getting closer and closer, and people must always be ready to revise what has been in the past thought to be the absolute gospel truth."
Cheers,
Frank
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
I honestly want to believe in paranormal stuff. Really, it would be so neat if there were aliens, time travelers, ghosts, flying saucers, shapeshifters, transdimensionals, mind-readers, gods, shadow people, clairvoyants, bigfoots... you name it. But here's where I have trouble: Why has there never been a single instance of a provable, undeniable, smoking-gun-obvious, paranormal thing? All of the mysteries in the world since time began have either been proven to have a prosaic explanation, or they remain unexplained. How can that be? Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time.

Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
Anyone who says they have proof will find a way of not showing you that proof - just ask Ray Stanford. Whatever happened to that guy's proof? I doubt we'll ever see it, and anything he shows us will be something he claims that we just don't "get."
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
Good point Angel. It actually goes both ways. For instance Sheldrake and Raden and past folks such as Myers and others have gotten "results." Then folks like Wiseman and Schermer and others have gotten "different" results. My scientist can beat up your scientist. To be honest "everything" including accepted "science" can be "debunked" to the satisfaction of somebody. :) Paranormal? I don't think we understand the nature of life and death and the universe and everything (with apoligies to Douglas Adams) :) I think on some "level" that spiritual things will always fall into the catogory of "if it happened to me I believe it." If it happened to you I'm skeptical about it. It's like "meditation" Some folks find it calms their spirit and puts them in touch with a "higher" self or diety. Others think it's just a "cool" way of relaxing. I think both are correct. It's kind of like the idea of aliens. We "judge" what they are based on "our" science and our way of life. Although I personally don't believe in aliens I will give the possibiltiy that they are "here." If they are how do I know what "they" would do in a given situation? Same with the paranomal. How would we measure the "other?" Maybe we can and will someday but until then I think it remains a "spritual" experience to some and a brain fart to others. :)
 

Xylo

Paranormal Adept
I think that as we learn more about quantum mechanics, time and the mechanisms that really drive the universe, we will begin to see that there is no definitive difference or line between "normal" and "paranormal," just a fuzzy, foggy area that becomes smaller and smaller the more we learn.

There may not be "undeniable proof" of something "paranormal" but there is a great deal of evidence that suggests that "paranormal" events occur. Believe what you want to believe but let logic, common sense and evidence be your guide.
 

Capnkumquat

Skilled Investigator
One only need to look at Einstein's "spooky action at a distance"(quantum entanglement), or "shrodingers cat", to see things that would/could be described as paranormal. When the greatest scientific minds of the generation look at math (not a photograph, or evp, or a light in the sky), but a mathematical equation and say..."That describes the impossible or nonsensical, and yet it is, true".

In my mind, that math describes the "edge" of the paranormal and hints that even stranger stuff lies beyond.
 

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
No you don't, you want to know. We all do. But we can't, at least we don't at present. It's not all for nothing though.

Try to think of it like this: at any given time there are certain things that are known and other things that are not known. The difference between known and not known is governed by two things: technology and time. Example- prior to the invention of the microscope and the development of microbiology the nature and reality of microbial life and it's relationship to infection and disease was unknown or at the very least unconfirmable. I put it to you that the reason these things haven't been confirmed or explained is that there simply hasn't been enough time devoted to them OR the technology required simply doesn't exist yet.
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
I honestly want to believe in paranormal stuff. Really, it would be so neat if there were aliens, time travelers, ghosts, flying saucers, shapeshifters, transdimensionals, mind-readers, gods, shadow people, clairvoyants, bigfoots... you name it. But here's where I have trouble: Why has there never been a single instance of a provable, undeniable, smoking-gun-obvious, paranormal thing? All of the mysteries in the world since time began have either been proven to have a prosaic explanation, or they remain unexplained. How can that be? Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time.

Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
I haven't read replies yet, so not sure if others have made the points I am about to make. If they have, pardon the echo.

I seek to know and not believe.

Whether or not something is undeniable depends on the observer. So long as you have people that haven't experienced certain things, some of them will deny.

I have seen proof btw. Too bad you weren't there. I can't deny it, but you can.

Figures. I scroll up and see Capn mentioned the knowing rather than believing. I should just shut up so long as he's here. Then again, I almost have.
 

saucerwench

Skilled Investigator
All you need to do, is go spend time at an infamously known haunted location. Spend the night there (alone preferably). (Bwwwahahaha....) I was not looking for proof of it, when I was assigned to work nights at a haunted location. I got all the proof I'll ever need and then some. No one will ever be able to convince me, for the rest of my life, that there -isn't- the paranormal. NUFF SAID!
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
My grandparents lived in a "haunted" house and I lived with them during my teen years. I "felt" and still "dream" of that place sometime. I'll admit it may have been a lot phscological but I wouldn't spend the night there now by myself. :redface: I have thought of seeing if it's still occupied and even trying to get an evp or something. Honestly? I think there was stuff going on. Actual spirits of the dead? I don't know about that. But, sometime I think it would be interesting to check it out. Other times I just mentally "cross" myself and move on. ::)
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
My grandparents lived in a "haunted" house and I lived with them during my teen years.
With three of those things in my house, believe me, I know the feeling! (shudders) You want to make anything scarier? Put "teenage" in front of it. Teenage Driver. Teenage Drinking. Teenage Ghost! Teenage Zombie! Teenager in the Refrigerator! Oh wait, that wasn't what you were talking about at all.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
With three of those things in my house, believe me, I know the feeling! (shudders) You want to make anything scarier? Put "teenage" in front of it. Teenage Driver. Teenage Drinking. Teenage Ghost! Teenage Zombie! Teenager in the Refrigerator! Oh wait, that wasn't what you were talking about at all.
No actually you may be onto something. I was everything you mentioned but you left out "pot head" Not now, but then. :)
 

Kieran

Paranormal Adept
I honestly want to believe in paranormal stuff. Really, it would be so neat if there were aliens, time travelers, ghosts, flying saucers, shapeshifters, transdimensionals, mind-readers, gods, shadow people, clairvoyants, bigfoots... you name it. But here's where I have trouble: Why has there never been a single instance of a provable, undeniable, smoking-gun-obvious, paranormal thing? All of the mysteries in the world since time began have either been proven to have a prosaic explanation, or they remain unexplained. How can that be? Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time.

Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
Well these intelligences, if there smarter than us and beyond us in technology, which I believe most people do agree is the case, prove will only come, when these non human intelligences want to share something with us . We assume the pilots of UFO's (if the objects seen are in fact real not imagined) are Aliens but that is clearly just an assumption, we have no clear understanding what we looking at to be honest, we can describe what we saw, but who can say for sure the objects can even travel into space and out?

I have little interest in stories of Bigfoot, the sightings are not many and the creature is seen in the United States mainly, why not Africa, Spain, France, other nations (you get my meaning) if the woodland is attraction for such a creature, it be spotted all over the world not just stuck to couple of areas!

Now we have evidence from every country which is roughly 200 plus nations, reports of UFO's going back centuries, this would rule out the very idea of the phenomenon not being something real, people are obviously seeing something, the question is the stories we hear correct (is it Alien) That is what we are seeking to find out isn't it?
 

dccruibay

Paranormal Novice
dccruibay

our world is so colourful and full of mystery that the advanced technology can not prove .but we should believe science
 

Facius_Cardan

Skilled Investigator
I honestly want to believe in paranormal stuff. Really, it would be so neat if there were aliens, time travelers, ghosts, flying saucers, shapeshifters, transdimensionals, mind-readers, gods, shadow people, clairvoyants, bigfoots... you name it. But here's where I have trouble: Why has there never been a single instance of a provable, undeniable, smoking-gun-obvious, paranormal thing? All of the mysteries in the world since time began have either been proven to have a prosaic explanation, or they remain unexplained. How can that be? Shouldn't there be at least one instance of paranormal proof? Just a little tiny one? Nope. Whenever the evidence has led to an undeniable conclusion, that conclusion has always been non-paranormal. Every single time. Can somebody help me with this, because I'd really like to believe.
Things are only labeled as paranormal until science relabels them as explained or explainable. That doesn't make them comprehensible to the common citizen. How many in this forum, for instance, truly understands the workings of things such as gravity or black holes? Few if any. Gravity is still an object of widespread debate among the scientific community and there are many doubts about the true nature of this physical force/property we deal with on our daily life. People feel comforted when science, as an institution of knowledge, declares this or that phenomenon has having been explained, even if the large majority of the public doesn't even begin to fathom what it really means or how it actually works. Everyone watches TV everyday. How many even know the basics of how it works? Society reached a point where all those questions are left to the "specialists" and the general population doesn't really care about them.
Ball lighting is a phenomenon that remains largely unexplained and has, nonetheless, been officialy recognized as authentic by the scientific consensus. This is actually a good example because it can account for some of the unidentified aerial phenomena reported in the past and even nowadays (it doesn't explain all).You say you'd "like to believe". I understand that feeling and that need. Au contraire I don't want to believe, I want to know. My interest in unexplained phenomena feeds my curiosity/inquisitive nature and nothing else.
 


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