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February 14, 2016 — Whitley Strieber



Standanista

Paranormal Maven
I think he's making it all up, but fair play to him for that. He's an entertainer and storyteller who's had an impact on his audience through his ideas and imagination, whether what he says in his "non-fiction" work is true or not. I'm not being negative about the bloke; on the contrary. I think the fact that Communion has kept many people guessing - and some true believing - for decades is testament to his skills as a plausible fantasist (the most adept kind). I don't reckon he believes a bar of it himself though. To quote courtstar1960 and callmesnake above, I'd put him down as 50% art project and 50% good salesman. Mixing fact with fantasy is a thread which runs through a lot of his work: it's part of his style and sub-genre. Mostly harmless, and certainly no L Ron Hubbard. No miraculous journey for me but an enjoyable show.
 

courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
All I see is an average writer and a good salesman.

For a man of 70 he sounds very young.
Sorry guy. Once again I had to wake up this morning and realize I had made a shitty, snarky remark while under the influence of gin. Yeah, brilliant salesman, tinge of genius or not.....I don't know what's to make of it all in the light of a sober afternoon. Truly sorry for acting a donkey
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
I enjoyed the show
From my pov he has the data but hasnt quite slapped the right labels on some components

But i like his take that whats happening is natural, not supernatural.
That the mechanisms are understandable if pursued using the proper tools
 

phxdxguy

Paranormal Novice
I enjoyed the show
From my pov he has the data but hasnt quite slapped the right labels on some components

But i like his take that whats happening is natural, not supernatural.
That the mechanisms are understandable if pursued using the proper tools

I agree with Mike.. also, I think co-host Chris is just about done with this and fed-up to his eyeballs. I did enjoy the show, but as Chris is saying (like that old TeeVee commercial "Where's the Beef ??" Gene was quite correct IMHO to keep the kid gloves on for this one.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Hes not an easy man to interview, (no fault of his own imo)
Its just that this case is multi layered.

The discussion can easily not move beyond is he telling the truth or not, resolving that first question takes you to two very different destinations when it comes to what he says.

Its a complex multi layered case and there can be no one size fits all conclusion in the resulting discussion, as has been manifested here in this very thread.

I was struck (and perhaps that just the inevitable result of personal filters) by similaritys between what he said and what ive postulated in my PBH. (post biological hypothesis)

I think what we call the dead does have some representation in this mystery , that there are no supernatural mechanisms, That the mechanism can be understood scientifically. that superstition has to be dispensed with.

Indeed i thought his suggestion the visitors are "midwives" fits nicely with my PBH in that they are part of the process of upload, That our biological phase of existance is just a phase and that post biological existance is the logical destination for sentients like ourselves


"I think it very likely – in fact inevitable – that biological intelligence is only a transitory phenomenon, a fleeting phase in the evolution of the universe," Paul Davies writes in The Eerie Silence. "If we ever encounter extraterrestrial intelligence, I believe it is overwhelmingly likely to be post-biological in nature."

And while Davies is refering to a grand scale scenario in the above quote, i think it can also apply at the micro, the personal level.

(Again Whitley mentions this "personal" aspect) i read this as to a post biological society helping a society not yet technologically equiped to do it for themselves, that everyones experience set, what perhaps he referes to as soul is important, and that once uploaded to the next phase a much larger existential reality awaits.

Again not discounting my personal filters heard what i wanted to hear, but in this interview i found "confirmation" of a sorts

Indeed just as Davies quote could apply on a grand scale ie our species, so to have i had a conversation with Whitley and Lorrie Barnes about a message given to her.

"You might look like us one day"
and
"We are you from the future"

That could be a broad reference to the human species, or.... a very personal individual one
 
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courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
Sorry guy. Once again I had to wake up this morning and realize I had made a shitty, snarky remark while under the influence of gin. Yeah, brilliant salesman, tinge of genius or not.....I don't know what's to make of it all in the light of a sober afternoon. Truly sorry for acting a donkey
Hi again all. You know I am amazed at the clarity, open-minded, caring discourse in this thread. I find myself somewhat in awe of the opinions presented here as regards Whitley, and the evolving ideas coming through from a sort of "Whitley Streiber" discussion. This is why I never post on "Rigorous Intuition". You guys are deeper thinkers than my own " just living on nerves and feelings, with a weak and a lazy mind" (Joni Mitchell) self. Proud to see y'all respond to my somewhat fuzzy thinking.
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
I'm glad we finally got Whitley on the show because at the very least, he is, like it or not, quite a large part of modern Ufology. In the late 80's 'Communion' was an eye-opener for me, along with books about Roswell which started to ramp up my interest in UFOs, prior to the X - Files. I'd always liked the paranormal, but it probably wasn't until the X-Files that I realised it was UFOs that really held my fascination. I've never really cared about the 'space brother' aspect or which alien races (if any) exist etc. For me it's all about the technology and the possibility that one day we might have craft that can zip around the planet and system, maybe go to other stars etc.

But I digress, whatever the reason Whitley never appeared until now, I hope he realises that anyone willing to come on and answer questions doesn't really have any reason not to appear. I would have felt the show missed a major player in the field had we never got him on. I think I agree with Chris who felt many questions were skilfully avoided, maybe everyone else thought like I did, that we were expecting him to do exactly that. I've long suspected much of Whitley's claims are mixed up with his fiction. There are few experiences Whitley claims not to have had!

I wasn't expecting much from him in terms of new info or answers we didn't already know but I'm still glad he came on. He is undoubtedly an interesting an imaginative person who has much to contribute to TV and movie fiction in addition to written work but it is so hard to tell what might be fiction and what might really have happened.
 

Burnt State

Paranormal Adept
Streiber does provide a fairly rambly archetypal plot line tale of the chosen one who following the traumatic initiation is now able to perceive things that are hidden and can relay this back to the rest of the tribe so that we can be saved. It’s a familiar tale: part Harry Potter, part Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.
jc paul.jpg
Stieber says that his early childhood experience where his parents sold him into a secret governmental experimental program cracked the cosmic egg making his mind open to receiving things not accessible by normal minds. He is changed. He is the contactee who can receive messages.

So this is perception and not necessarily reality he tells us at the start but:
  • He has an implant in his head
  • The visitors are affecting our DNA
  • They are abducting people
He really wanted to impress upon us is that we do have souls and we need to recognize this. The claimed alignment is with St. Paul, the man who changed the world. Whitely believes in Jesus Christ, who was special but does not know why he was important and he did not even know. But in all this unknowing Christianity changed the world. Whitley is attempting to humbly aim for something of the same it appears.

Let’s be objective he says: angels, demons, djinn, greys let us consider them. Ok, but isn’t it already a bit of an objective leap of faith to even begin to consider illusory magical beings as real? Regardless, it is deep and dangerous and sacred he tells us, for he is playing in a space where there are no illusions – what the?! Hold up! Those are not illusions for we make the demons and with energy. Let me guess – a morphogenic field?

Ok so let’s not make decisions about them but let’s just say they’re there – ok, let’s just say that Jaques Vallee is Satan and that he has a magical herd of centaurs in his backyard that he’s going to unleash on humanity after he finishes his breeding program.

Hmmm….not too sure about just how fast he twists these highly subjective discussions that suddenly turn objective, for the supernatural is an objective reality he says. Ok. Let’s say that. TBH I thought he was making stuff up as he went along, Chris’ comments in ATP are bang on. Lots of smoke here but no fire imho.

Methinks I hear the voice of the Prophet, not just the contactee. This communion with god that he has had, is an act of personal transformation - into the modern day prophet. He continues to receive messages and receives guidance. I’m not really seeing a coherent discussion here, just a claim to being the next prophet for the world to help us find our souls. i don't understand why his religious overtones are so appealing.
soul.jpg
The great irony came with his great disdain for the occult. Somehow the occult in all its grand pageantry of symbolism that has descended down through the ages is not reflective of reality but his friction with the visitors and his contacting the dead during his group sleepovers is? Bizarre at best.

I won’t bother going into the whole bit about messing with the minds of children and descending into their rooms in the middle of the night. Was it wonderland he called it? Just a bunch of whacked stories. The cultish overtones are present in those invitations selected by his partner to join them for the sleepovers. Creepy contactee is what it is.
 

courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
I agree with Mike.. also, I think co-host Chris is just about done with this and fed-up to his eyeballs. I did enjoy the show, but as Chris is saying (like that old TeeVee commercial "Where's the Beef ??" Gene was quite correct IMHO to keep the kid gloves on for this one.
Oh, absolutely. Thanks Gene and Chris for a perfect interview of this "touchy, grouchy, very smart man.". But the more I read of these outstandingly erudite comments, I find that I'm even more confused.....or questioning. So, y'all, what is the final take away on this man and his " output"
 

courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
Or Is it just another chapter in the "God only knows what" of these esoteric subjects that keep disparate folks like ourselves bothering to expend the energy to care......what's the summation for i interested people like ourselves?
 
F

Fcseven

Guest
Great interview. I have been following Striber on and off through various podcasts and interviews for years. It's good to see him finally on the paracast.

I had no idea his wife passed. It must have been recently? I recall him mentioning her in almost every interview and remember thinking it was sweet. How sad. :( It's double and triple sad he sees himself as a punching bag for abduction jokes and people spitting on his car. If there is a tragic figure in ufology it has to be him. I'm glad you guys went easy on him.

The story about his reverse out of body experience and trip to an alternate reality was amazing. Easily blew my mind.
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
Great interview. I have been following Striber on and off through various podcasts and interviews for years. It's good to see him finally on the paracast.

I had no idea his wife passed. It must have been recently? I recall him mentioning her in almost every interview and remember thinking it was sweet. How sad. :( It's double and triple sad he sees himself as a punching bag for abduction jokes and people spitting on his car. If there is a tragic figure in ufology it has to be him. I'm glad you guys went easy on him.

The story about his reverse out of body experience and trip to an alternate reality was amazing. Easily blew my mind.

Everyone can agree I think that spitting on the car of a person who just gave you his time in conversation is just unbelievably low and about the most pathetic act. What an a-hole that guy was. If he doesn't like Whitley he does not need to listen to him or watch him. It's doubly insane that the person had just been talking to him. I'd love to know what crap life that person has to make him think spitting on a car is acceptable behaviour.
 

courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
Streiber does provide a fairly rambly archetypal plot line tale of the chosen one who following the traumatic initiation is now able to perceive things that are hidden and can relay this back to the rest of the tribe so that we can be saved. It’s a familiar tale: part Harry Potter, part Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.
jc paul.jpg
Stieber says that his early childhood experience where his parents sold him into a secret governmental experimental program cracked the cosmic egg making his mind open to receiving things not accessible by normal minds. He is changed. He is the contactee who can receive messages.

So this is perception and not necessarily reality he tells us at the start but:
  • He has an implant in his head
  • The visitors are affecting our DNA
  • They are abducting people
He really wanted to impress upon us is that we do have souls and we need to recognize this. The claimed alignment is with St. Paul, the man who changed the world. Whitely believes in Jesus Christ, who was special but does not know why he was important and he did not even know. But in all this unknowing Christianity changed the world. Whitley is attempting to humbly aim for something of the same it appears.

Let’s be objective he says: angels, demons, djinn, greys let us consider them. Ok, but isn’t it already a bit of an objective leap of faith to even begin to consider illusory magical beings as real? Regardless, it is deep and dangerous and sacred he tells us, for he is playing in a space where there are no illusions – what the?! Hold up! Those are not illusions for we make the demons and with energy. Let me guess – a morphogenic field?

Ok so let’s not make decisions about them but let’s just say they’re there – ok, let’s just say that Jaques Vallee is Satan and that he has a magical herd of centaurs in his backyard that he’s going to unleash on humanity after he finishes his breeding program.

Hmmm….not too sure about just how fast he twists these highly subjective discussions that suddenly turn objective, for the supernatural is an objective reality he says. Ok. Let’s say that. TBH I thought he was making stuff up as he went along, Chris’ comments in ATP are bang on. Lots of smoke here but no fire imho.

Methinks I hear the voice of the Prophet, not just the contactee. This communion with god that he has had, is an act of personal transformation - into the modern day prophet. He continues to receive messages and receives guidance. I’m not really seeing a coherent discussion here, just a claim to being the next prophet for the world to help us find our souls. i don't understand why his religious overtones are so appealing.
soul.jpg
The great irony came with his great disdain for the occult. Somehow the occult in all its grand pageantry of symbolism that has descended down through the ages is not reflective of reality but his friction with the visitors and his contacting the dead during his group sleepovers is? Bizarre at best.

I won’t bother going into the whole bit about messing with the minds of children and descending into their rooms in the middle of the night. Was it wonderland he called it? Just a bunch of whacked stories. The cultish overtones are present in those invitations selected by his partner to join them for the sleepovers. Creepy contactee is what it is.
Good post.
 

courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
I think he's making it all up, but fair play to him for that. He's an entertainer and storyteller who's had an impact on his audience through his ideas and imagination, whether what he says in his "non-fiction" work is true or not. I'm not being negative about the bloke; on the contrary. I think the fact that Communion has kept many people guessing - and some true believing - for decades is testament to his skills as a plausible fantasist (the most adept kind). I don't reckon he believes a bar of it himself though. To quote courtstar1960 and callmesnake above, I'd put him down as 50% art project and 50% good salesman. Mixing fact with fantasy is a thread which runs through a lot of his work: it's part of his style and sub-genre. Mostly harmless, and certainly no L Ron Hubbard. No miraculous journey for me but an enjoyable show.
And at the risk of posting this in a not quite appropriate thread, can I just say that this episode brought the realization that The Paracast has matured into one of the most important podcasts around on these topics that compel us so. Thanks Gene, Chris for sticking it out. I appreciate your efforts and integrity.
 

Liminalist

Skilled Investigator
I try to read and understand the Jason Hoursley (s.p.) material, but I'm nowhere near as smart as that guy.
(correct sp: Jasun Horsley.)

I'd be happy to clarify anything that seems unclear. For those who don't know I've been serializing a book-length investigation into Strieber and an analysis of his work called Prisoner of Infinity, at my blog. I have been into Strieber since 1992 when I first heard about Communion. I believed it utterly on reading and also believed it made sense of some of my own childhood experiences. I went on to have experiences that I believed were of a similar nature, albeit mostly in a dream state. You might say I became obsessed with the idea of the visitors and with establishing contact with them. I wrote a book, Lucid View, published in 2003, that began my written exploration of Strieber, in the context of the occult and paranoid awareness. A follow-up, Homo Serpiens, went even further, and was indebted to Strieber for many of the ideas it put forth. The Key especially impressed me for years as a sacred text, just as Strieber claimed it was.

My process of dis-illusionment (I would say waking up) began in 2008 when I wrote a piece on Strieber called "Through a Looking Glass, Darkly," which first appeared at Rigorous Intuition and then in Paranoid magazine and Alien Worlds. Mac Tonnies wrote about it at the time, shortly before he died, but Strieber never really responded to it (tho at one point I believe he did suggest the author was an operative!). In the process of looking more closely at WS's output for that piece, I began to notice more and more inconsistencies. In 2011, after the furore Strieber generated around the two versions of The Key, and following a thread I began at Rig Int called "Is Strieber Advocating Implants?", I expanded and updated the piece and explored the ways in which Strieber seemed, wittingly or not, to have created a cultlike following around the ideas he put forth. (You can read the pull PDF here.) Once again, Strieber did not comment. (I emailed him many times over the years, rarely got more than a one line response.)

Then in 2013, partially as a result of an essay Jeffrey Kripal sent me on "the traumatic secret," I began what became Prisoner of Infinity, which first appeared (part one) at a sort of art installation site called Crucial Fictions. Kripal asked to see the completed text (part one) but never commented on it. Last year, I completed the second part and then sat on it. I got something like an offer to publish from a publisher in the UFO field but decided to wait, as this material doesn't seem to me to be primarily for UFO afficonadoes, who one way or another have their beliefs to defend. The focus of POI is much wider and deeper, being a psychological analysis of Strieber via his many writings, and a look at how social, cultural, and religious engineering works. I now consider Strieber to be a very rare and important case study of how MKULTRA-style psychic fragmentation is being used to create public spokespeople who will, Prophet-like, spread cultural and/or religious memes in order to implement a larger agenda that is all-but invisible to most people. Here is evident the strange and persistent overlap between UFO experiences and pop culture, which one of the interviewers mentions more than once.

For the record, by approaching this issue psychologically, I do not claim that Strieber's experiences are "all in his head," but rather, insofar as they cannot all be explained via military-intelligence manipulations (which I don't think they can be), in his psyche and his body, which is something else entirely. They are real enough, at a psychic level anyway, and Strieber's affiliations with MKULTRA and the CIA (which he has occasionally, perhaps unwittingly, admitted to) are also real. I don't think Strieber is inventing whole-cloth; I think he has been manipulated and conditioned to believe what he reports. He is capable of lying, however, and I have pointed out occasions where he has done so, most recently in a review of The Super Natural which I will publish soon.

One last thing: the real truth around Strieber, tho I can't claim to have got to it yet, is, as truth always must be, a lot more interesting, meaningful, and, in its own rather disturbing way, more astonishing than the many tales which he loves to spin from his ongoing trauma. And it does not require belief in "super natural" presences (tho I have no problem acknowledging the existence of these).
 
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courtspark1960

Skilled Investigator
Jason, thank you. Yes, I found you through "The Lucid View" years ago. And I have kept on following your work since. I really think that the psychology/MK Ultraish/ military mind fucking path as regards WS you are exploring is truth, as best as it can be found, regarding this multifaceted, chimeric story that is WS.

Thanks again for your insights into the story and the way you have used it to jump into ever more fascinating tacks. I salute you. Bud Oliver
 
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