February 1, 2015 — Burnt State

[Burnt State]

Heather is a common name. Why not someone in the neighborhood or visitor that lost their charm? Btw, what was the charm? Something cheap or common or ? What condition was it in? Do you still have it? I think you said it was a gold foot? Was it real gold or ?

Also, consider Heather was around for some time while you did the Ouija... so, how long were you conjuring Heather? How soon did you find the charm after the freaky incident, which wasn't Heather anyway, right? Or, was it before the door slamming?

Yes it is common, and I'm not making any great claims except to say that during our ongoing contacts that summer I found a gold charm, like from a charm bracelet or perhaps a necklace that had the name Heather on it. As far as synchronicities go that was a big one for me. It was in fairly good condition, not real gold, just plated, and I supose it is somewhere in a drawer in the bedroom of my childhood. I'm still trying to track down my Ouija records as I kept detailed notes in a binder of all our contacts. I was actively investigating the phenomenon I suppose. The charm was found before the door slam incident. We did Ouija for about maybe a year, close to 14 months as it spanned two summers. Contacts with Heather were only in the last summer, at least that last summer was pretty frequent for our group.

 

[Burnt State]

This dude sounds like one of them Canadians. Burn him! Burn him at the stake! Great interview so far though. Really enjoying it.

I can understand your feelings given that the last time a bunch of drunken Canadians stormed across your border we burned your Whitehouse down to the ground.

 

[Burnt State]

Heyyy... here's an idea: We should form a group together to try-out some distance experiences "experiments" we do as a group. I'm not sure what the "group think" should be, but I think this is a worthy idea to brainstorm to test out some of our interests.

Comments? Ideas? Suggestions?

From what I saw the group collective effect shows only minimally on the charts - see Dean Radin's random number generator experiments.

The Ouija, IMHO, is an effect produced unconsciously by those present in the room. I do not believe you can create entities, at least not in the real world, but in a world of discontinuous events we can influence future events, or call the future to us as it's just another 'now' on the timeline. You may prefer to describe this holographically.

Can we pull random, real information from the air? Perhaps there is a mechanism to allow for such possibilities which would help to make remote viewing seem possible. But if information is everywhere then somehow we may unknowingly get access to these patterns or we may simply be riding patterns clearly present that we do not recognize as such. The earth is replete with divine ratios and recurrences. Are these things that the algorithms of our mind unconsciously process immediately, that in turn produce instantaneous results that are really quite rational, but that our conscious mind calls magic or paranormal?

 

[annekrz]

The film on the Ariel School sighting is in progress but we need your help! Visit www.arielphenomenon.com for an update on the film and see an exclusive film trailer! Follow our progress on Facebook at “Ariel School Documentary” and Twitter @arielschoolfilm. We need your help to finish this important documentary. Please donate via the film’s website and check out the cool gifts we’re offering as our thanks!

 

[smcder]

DID = Dissociative Identity Disorder?

Yes ma'am ... DID is the old MPD diagnosis ... raises fascinating issues for self and the "C" word ...

 

[Burnt State]

The film on the Ariel School sighting is in progress but we need your help! Visit www.arielphenomenon.com for an update on the film and see an exclusive film trailer! Follow our progress on Facebook at “Ariel School Documentary” and Twitter @arielschoolfilm. We need your help to finish this important documentary. Please donate via the film’s website and check out the cool gifts we’re offering as our thanks!

Easily one of everyone's favourite contact encounter. What phase of production are you in and what's the projected broadcast date? I hope you get a lot of support as it is such a very compelling narrative.

For a reminder:

 

[Burnt State]

Yes ma'am ... DID is the old MPD diagnosis ... raises fascinating issues for self and the "C" word ...

Re: the overachievers

I'm wondering if you have access to this info: for those that disassociate, decompensate and/or are schizophrenic - what's the current thinking regarding brain chemistry and what's taking place during high moments, manic phases, when thoughts become excessive and tumble out of control? Has anyone actually measured what's excessively flowing or lacking during such periods? Also what connections are there between brain chemistry and hallucinations?

And do you know how common it is for a consciousness overachiever to experience gaps in time, feelings of having blacked out, or being unaware of other personalities as they emerge and live out their own conscious experiences? I know, a lot of questions, but it seems to me that there are a lot of parallels and commonalities between altered states, decompensation, and abduction narratives.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Easily one of everyone's favourite contact encounter.

BtSt, you make a good case for respecting the victims of such encounters, but how will you answer to this?...

[If you read this post before, then you might want to read it again. I corrected some errors. Mainly, that Cynthia Hind was a UFO researcher and not a teacher at the school. This is FAR WORSE than what I thought was happening.]

The film on the Ariel School sighting is in progress but we need your help!

There really needs to be a documentary about how not to abuse children this way as follows:

Hind's role in this case seems to be something of a double-edged sword, in that she did a good job getting to the witnesses so early, but, as you said, seems to have polluted the case somewhat by not isolating the witnesses and interviewing them one by one - and by asking leading questions.

How will your documentary answer to this as follows: ???...

IMO... These manipulated "put on display" children were damaged psychologically by the shark tank of "group think" and "group guidance" by Hinds, a UFO researcher, and by extreme media manipulation allowed onto school grounds within days of what happened.

Cynthia Hind was an ET-UFO believer and researcher long before that incident at Ariel, and she got involved in another sighting years before in the UK. In her own words in 1979 she got involved in a school sighting in Wales. She said she went down THREE times to speak with the children. WTFrack? Also, she mentioned the name Hilary Evans that she was somehow connected with [the audio seems clipped or cut to understand that connection, it's bizarre]. Oh yeah, guess what! LOOK: Hilary Agard Evans (6 March 1929 – 27 July 2011) was a British pictorial archivist, author, and researcher into UFOs and other paranormal phenomena.

Cynthia Hind thought they might become famous from the worldwide news that was breaking at the time at Ariel. She allowed video cameras to video tape HER guidance and her questioning to the children in a "group setting" as an authority figure and like a teacher too, questioning students, yet Cynthia Hind was just a UFO researcher!!! It's abusive, IMO. She led all the children far away from "the truth" and used peer pressure and group think to do it too!

It's a PERFECT example of what NOT to do to Innocent Children!

The HOAX [and delusional beliefs] probability is extremely high, imo, and the children were the innocent victims of these nutcases! [I don't believe for a second that the children created the hoax either.]

BtSt, you wrote this recently relating to witnesses too [about a different event], but I think your concerns are for witnesses in general too...

BtSt wrote: "At the centre of ufology there has always been a witness, and witnesses have been treated in a lot of different ways over the years. Some are celebrated constructions like Romanek, where the witness is raised up on the stage of public fame even though everyone can see there is a charlatan at the centre of it all. Streiber and Walton are also in that camp of the celebrated witnesses, but most witnesses receive scorn, laughter and derision. Many are treated like dirt, lose their jobs, their families and all the former life they had before they talked what they saw. Dale Spaur's kaleidescopic story comes to mind when you think about how the witness can have their lives entirely rearranged.

Perhaps one of the great weaknesses in ufology research is how witnesses are treated, how much of their story and identity should be released. But without a name and a face, witness testimony doesn't mean a lot. In fact it seems to me that without the witness in the crosshairs we would not have this other sociological feature of ufology, where those who have seen something can create the contactee- cult - guru stage show that ultimately has one of the biggest impacts on ufology's audience. It creates the audience and creates direction for discussion. That individual witness has too often become the primary focus of discussion, their impact and their feelings, as opposed to the actual event itself. Witnesses like Emma Woods, or the other woman with many names at the centre of Budd Hopkins' Brooklyn Bridge oeuvre, demonstrate how the witness can displace the event. This seems to happen the most when hypnosis and alien abduction/contact are at the heart of the story. Draw conclusions there as you will."[End Quote]

Every child witness except one that was found years later as young adults [and three older adults] would ONLY VAGUELY essentially say: we saw something or something happened. Creepy! Freaky! The one exception was a female student that said: "that 'picture' that [audio appears to be cut] it will never go out of my mind was the face and just the craft."

In the case of the woman that I cited, the woman is now grown. Forgive me my lack of clarity. She was a child at the time and is now still terrified to go out alone. The woman who informed me of this left no doubt as to her anxiety being directly related to the incident.

Dr John Mack was visiting Zimbabwe about 2 months after the time of the event, and he spent two days at Ariel School with the children. He also spoke to the Headmaster, Colin Mackie, the teachers and some of the parents.

 

[Burnt State]

 

[Burnt State]

Dear DS, your enthusiasm and criticisms are always interesting, but you make some extreme slam judgments sometimes that do not always demonstrate open minded seeking just a lot of heavy handedness. Child abuse is a serious event that includes violence, either physical or mental, and I don't see how Hind's interview of a sixth of the witnesses constitutes abuse. How do you see it that way? These kids obviously had a very unique experience and allowing them to speak in a small group setting is a good way for them to feel less intimated and more validated.

It's one thing to insist a child is an abductee or to manipulate people through hypnosis and implant suggestions of abduction, but that's not what happened here. Also, these kids were not dismissed, mocked or ridiculed, but prior to Hind's arrival they were asked to draw what they saw. Their headmaster repeatedly supported their statements, even though he was not a UFO believer. Maybe we can slow down your sense of quick conviction around what you feel is damning about the investigation to see what can be learned from what these kids said they saw.

I think that given the incredible amount of variation in the images they provided, along with their own fear experience & the events that preceded the close encounter, there are some very instructive aspects to this case that does make it very worthy of study.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...The earth is replete with divine ratios and recurrences. Are these things that the algorithms of our mind unconsciously process immediately, that in turn produce instantaneous results that are really quite rational, but that our conscious mind calls magic or paranormal?

OK, let's get real: First you need to establish and prove the "collective unconscious " is real. If it is, then perhaps a harmonic resonance within the collective unconscious can be identified. Is this resonance in situ, or can it be manipulated? By us, here on "earth," or by "them" out there looming in the cosmos? If "they" are real (and truly other) could they also be a manifestation of our own "close-system" process?
<--insert drum fill/pickup-->

 

[DissectionStalker]

Dear DS, your enthusiasm and criticisms are always interesting, but you make some extreme slam judgments sometimes that do not always demonstrate open minded seeking just a lot of heavy handedness. Child abuse is a serious event that includes violence, either physical or mental, and I don't see how Hind's interview of a sixth of the witnesses constitutes abuse. How do you see it that way? These kids obviously had a very unique experience and allowing them to speak in a small group setting is a good way for them to feel less intimated and more validated.

I still think it was abusive; not necessarily child abuse. Inviting in the media BBC and Hind almost immediately was definitely not a smart move by any means! No way! That seems abusive to innocent children, imo, to subject them immediately under "the limelights" of hype so intensively for a media agenda. At a minimum, it was unbelievably stupid, imo. These were naive innocent 6yo to 12yo kids mostly.

I saw Hind sort those pictures. She just wanted the pics that fit her mold and purposes. What about all those other pics that don't support her agenda?

As Greg Bishop says, and you respect his opinions too, if one comes into close contact with a UFO experience, such as contactee or abduction, then run like hell from the UFO experts. Bishop thinks you need an independent psychotherapist to help-out FIRST before putting your adult self [much less young children] into the subjective hands and the worldview of a UFO devotee. In fact, Bishop thinks it's a big mistake to even get help psychologically or subject yourself to the ET-UFO worldview with [often leading] questioning from such devotees. Vallee would certainly agree that what happened with UFO devotee Hind and the young children at Ariel was essentially a complete and total disaster!

I'm only trying to emphasize these points below, but I'm not shouting. Thanks for understanding.

Also, it was CLEARLY said by a girl in that first question session with Hind that almost IMMEDIATELY the children were spreading rumors amongst themselves that these were UFO's and Aliens. BUT, Hind was NOT trying to promote that truth one bit! Ohhh, no! She wanted this event to be understood and framed as isolated and far away from the influence of media hype and exposure to UFO's and ET's. That IS manipulation! That IS altering the children's truth!

Look what Hind does next in my post below to all the children present...

 

[boomerang]

OK, let's get real: First you need to establish and prove the "collective unconscious " is real. If it is, then perhaps a harmonic resonance within the collective unconscious can be identified. Is this resonance in situ, or can it be manipulated? By us, here on "earth," or by "them" out there looming in the cosmos? If "they" are real (and truly other) could they also be a manifestation of our own "close-system" process?
<--insert drum fill/pickup-->

To paraphrase what SpaceBrother said of UFOs: We find ourselves seeking evidence for things that do not adhere to our rules of evidence. I see the collective unconscious and other things in depth psychology and philosophy to fall within this category.

Imagine sighting a strange animal in the forest and chasing after it. And then suddenly finding you have at some point crossed over from the reassuring world of flora and fauna to stand on a flat and infinite plain with no points of reference. Except perhaps that strange animal grinning right at you.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Hind's leading questions:

[I'm just quoting the parts below that I believe were highly destructive.]

1st Boy:

1) We saw a black man running around. (This boy could not see its face. It was too far away.)

Hind leading question: A little man or what?

2) Boy explains the black man was so far away that it looked about his size. [Note what happens next...]

2nd Boy:

1) I didn't see the spaceship. [Ohhh, boy! Spaceship! In front of 5 other children. The five other children are now infected by this idea of spaceship!]

2) I saw the little black guy. [<-note identical word little has now been introduced possibly by the previous leading question by Hind. Bummer!] This boy could not see its face. He was too far away. He was all black with long hair <-repeatedly said. He could not see what he was wearing.

3rd Boy:

1) He interrupts 2nd boy to clarify the man was in the shadows. [Meaning, that's why you can't see clothing, face, etc.]

Hind's INSANE LEADING QUESTIONS:

"And you also saw this creature?" (WTFrack! WTFrack! Game over!)

"What did you think IT was?"

"Did you see the thing, whatever it was land?"

2) Boy says he saw flashes inside of his eyes!!!

Hind says: "But you didn't see anything on the ground?"

(Again, WTFrack! WTFrack! WTFrack! Game over!!!)

3) Boy says no I just saw it 'there'. He indicates with his hand towards his eyes!!!

Hind makes no attempt to clarify this critical point, and she immediately moves on to the next boy.

Is this woman INSANE ??? (Again, WTFrack! WTFrack! WTFrack! Game over!!!)

4th Boy:

1) [Boy explains details no one else expressed yet, and then...]

Hind again says what did you think it was?

2) Boy explains at first he thought it was another boy from the playground. He said its hair was like "our hair" not curly, but that thing almost looked like a Hippie.

1st Girl (5th to speak):

1) I saw the little black men. They had longish hair all black. They had big black eyes. That's all I saw. Just a glimpse. They kind went back into a ship. [She describes unique things about the ship and little ones not expressed before.]

Hind asked: "When you say big eyes. Show me with your hands." [...]

Hind then asks: "What do you think it was?"

2) Girl answers: Well, everybody was saying that they were UFO's and everything, so... [Hind interrupts. WTFrack!!!]

Hind says: Other people said they were UFO's.

3) Girl answers: "People were coming along telling! Umm. We were in a classroom, and I ran out!!! And I saw it. I did think they were UFO's. I did see them.

Girl admits she was influenced by what the other children said. "But I did definitely see what I saw."

I hope everyone reading this can understand just how fracked-up this is, and how Hind created a disaster zone!!!

2nd Girl (6th and last to speak):

1) "I saw something [she says something here I can't understand, maybe: "sort of on"] the ground amongst the trees. And a person in black. And that's all I saw."

Hind responds with an unbelievable leading question! Hind poisons the well...

"You saw a person along side the sort of thing? [...] Have you heard about UFO's before this? [...]"

I'm only trying to emphasize these points below, but I'm not shouting. Thanks for understanding.

If all of the above is not bad enough... Wholly Sheit! Look what happens next:

Hind stands around with the Headmaster in front of the children, often looking at them too, saying such things as:

Hind to Headmaster: What is your attitude to the whole concept of people coming from other planets other nations(???) coming to Earth?

Hind: "We would like to go down to the area [...] to measure with a Geiger counter to see if there is any radio activity. Until then I think you should keep everyone away."

Hind continues in front of the children:

Also, America has been on the line. [...] They did tell me this morning from London this could be the biggest story of the 20th century!!!

Hind repeats going down to the area again to check for metal and radioactivity... Hind dismisses a Soviet satellite as having anything to do with this too.

Hind says I think it's time the world woke-up that something is going on... and don't think I'm a cookie character... weird lady as they call me.

BTW, an entire class of grade six children were standing at the doorway with their teacher peering in listening to Hind say most of that Alien rap just above.

I say again... and again... WTFrack, WTFrack, WTFrack...

I wonder what Vallee would say about this INSANE provocation destroying these children as viable witnesses to anything!!!

 

[Burnt State]

OK, let's get real: First you need to establish and prove the "collective unconscious " is real. If it is, then perhaps a harmonic resonance within the collective unconscious can be identified. Is this resonance in situ, or can it be manipulated? By us, here on "earth," or by "them" out there looming in the cosmos? If "they" are real (and truly other) could they also be a manifestation of our own "close-system" process?

I know I'm stepping out on some thin limbs here but I do feel if we don't start thinking creatively about the situation we'll just keep driving around in circles in the labyrinth. I also think it's a mistake to string discontinuous events together and claim extraterrestrial visitor. There's far too much description of evidence historically to make us think more precisely and carefully about the closed system. Let Vallée be a starting point for this type of thought and evolve it. Duensing suggested on the last RM episode that we should not grasp at the straws of limited evidence of these objects but work more closely with the perceiver, as the witness is always here and we can talk to them.

So, our history is replete with patterns. We built religions out of them, and different kinds of realities and paradigms of reality to suit our varying needs. Trees and circles repeat a lot. So do penises and vaginas. This is the imagery of who we are. It is deep in the psyche along with all current social constructions we were raised with.

Next, we seem to be part of an organizing principle. Instead of thinking that the UFO's are responding culturally to us I suggest that we are co-creators that converts the stimulus into a pattern we can best imagine.

Third, fear, brain chemistry and difference in perceptions by shared witnesses offer us more than clues, but a place to start thinking critically from.

Finally, if dogs really can sense fear, then perhaps there really is something measurable that is a by-product of our mind. Realistically, fear sweat produces a unique smell that affects nearby humans, and this is probably what dogs are sensing. But, imagine if our minds work with an external stimulus, like a kind of lock and key mechanism, and, bam, there it is in the sky something we can not name, something as common as the weather, but because of whatever unique circumstances the witness adds up to we see it clearly, pulled right from the centre of our cortex: a UFO!

Can you dig it?

 

[EQ42]

OK, let's get real: First you need to establish and prove the "collective unconscious " is real. If it is, then perhaps a harmonic resonance within the collective unconscious can be identified. Is this resonance in situ, or can it be manipulated? By us, here on "earth," or by "them" out there looming in the cosmos? If "they" are real (and truly other) could they also be a manifestation of our own "close-system" process?
<--insert drum fill/pickup-->

Chris, did you see my question? What ended up being the story with the person you came across that had been murdered? You mentioned you kept up with the case for a year or two. Did they have any suspects?

 

[Burnt State]

To paraphrase what SpaceBrother said of UFOs: We find ourselves seeking evidence for things that do not adhere to our rules of evidence. I see the collective unconscious and other things in depth psychology and philosophy to fall within this category.

Imagine sighting a strange animal in the forest and chasing after it. And then suddenly finding you have at some point crossed over from the reassuring world of flora and fauna to stand on a flat and infinite plain with no points of reference. Except perhaps that strange animal grinning right at you.

I confess, I really like the way you think. Sometimes you are very arresting. I feel like you've just narrated many a Bigfoot, monster, UFO close encounter. The only thing I want to know is the actual location of the infinite plain. I see this as a very internal space found at space time co-ordinates 0,0.

 

[smcder]

Re: altered states being adaptive

Amber fossil links earliest grasses, dinosaurs and fungus used to produce LSD

A perfectly preserved amber fossil from Myanmar has been found that provides evidence of the earliest grass specimen ever discovered - about 100 million years old - and even then it was topped by a fungus similar to ergot, which for eons has been intertwined with animals and humans.

Ergot has played roles as a medicine, a toxin, and a hallucinogen; been implicated in everything from disease epidemics to the Salem witch trials; and more recently provided the hallucinogenic drug LSD.

Apparently both ergot and the grasses that now form most of the diet for the human race evolved together. ...

"It seems like ergot has been involved with animals and humans almost forever, and now we know that this fungus literally dates back to the earliest evolution of grasses," said George Poinar, Jr., an internationally recognized expert on the life forms found in amber and a faculty member in the OSU College of Science.

"This is an important discovery that helps us understand the timeline of grass development, which now forms the basis of the human food supply in such crops as corn, rice or wheat," Poinar said. "But it also shows that this parasitic fungus may have been around almost as long as the grasses themselves, as both a toxin and natural hallucinogen. ...

Much later in evolution, grasses would become a powerful life form on Earth, creating vast prairies, nourishing herds of animals, and eventually providing for the domestication of range animals and the cultivation of many food crops. The rise of crop agriculture changed the entire development of the human race, and it's now estimated that grasses compose about 20 percent of global vegetation.

Researchers also noted in their report that "few fungi have had a greater historical impact on society than ergot."​

Cogito, ergot some?

I'm not yet seeing how the quotes above show that altered states are adaptive for humans ... or grasses? Or ergot? Or witches?

They may have been for Albert Hofmann ..,

 

[boomerang]

Cogito, ergot some?

Ha ! A good one.



Only took me a full day to get it.

 

[Constance]

Barmaid: “Would you like some wine?”
Descartes: “I think not.”
Then he vanishes.