Fake or Fact: Cattle Mutilations

[Christopher O'Brien]

I just finished watching a recent episode of this SyFy show Fact or Faked with segment content produced by our old friend Bob Kiviat. I worked w/ Kiviat on an SLV segment back in 1996 and he did a good job on the segment. Kiviat called me this past winter and told me about a segment they were preparing to produce for ForF. I offered to help in any way they needed and urged him to produce an accurate piece to redeem himself for the Alien Autopsy fiasco. He promised that he would...

Well, they went to the San Luis Valley to investigate a cattle mutilation (one of four) reported by San Luis, CO rancher Manuel Sanchez (who also saw a strange aerial light over the site) and investigated by amateur mutilation investigator Chuck Zukoski (who contacted the media to trumpet his "aliens did this" theory). Without boring you with the details, they hired a veterinarian to try and duplicate the apparent incisions found on the animal. She tried to do this on a freshly dead calf w/ a heat cutting tool, and then a laser, with no success. The ForF team walked around (months after the case occurred) with tri-field meters and geiger counters and then had the bright idea to nail a piece of cow hide to a board trapping a balloon underneath which they then inflated. The balloon blew up and split the cow hide. Voila! They've explained the appearance of precise cuts, case closed, NEXT...

Well, not quite, kiddies. What about the tight skin around the mandible? The face doesn't bloat, how do you explain these thousands of jaw cuts? Or what about the cases where the animal was seen alive just minutes before being discovered mutilated? Sherman Ranch, UT (1998 ), Chama, CO (1975) Chacon, NM (1994) or the many cases where the animal was discovered with strange incisions before it bloated?

Another thing that bothers me is the comment made by one of the show personalities who researched UFO sightings in the San Luis Valley. She made the comment that "San Luis has had five UFO sightings since 1996." Some researcher! My San Luis Valley Event Log/database is easy to find and contains dozens of UFO sightings around San Luis. What's up with this? Some researchers these kids are...

Once again Follywood is producing shoddy TV segments that feature shallow explanations, shoddy research and non-critical thinking. Its people in the entertainment industry such as Kiviat that do the paranormal research and investigation field a gross disservice. I can accept and even tolerate skeptics and close-mindedness, but I can't abide glossy, packaged disinformation masquerading as "entertainment." I'm going to give the dude a call and have a talk with him... I'll tell you what he has to say about my observations and concerns.

 

[justcurious]

The ForF team walked around (months after the case occurred) with tri-field meters and geiger counters and then had the bright idea to nail a piece of cow hide to a board trapping a balloon underneath which they then inflated. The balloon blew up and split the cow hide. Voila! They've explained the appearance of precise cuts, case closed, NEXT...

LMAO! Did they also debunk the missing rectums by saying that they were expulsed out of the animal by sheer internal pressure too ? Ooops I shouldn't give ideas to this type of geniuses.

 

[NTS]

Seems like a good way to resolve the whole "cattle mutilation" issue would be to do a Body Farm-type study. Leave some dead cows lying around and watch what happens to them. This would show what changes are the results of decomposition and scavengers (the usual explanations for the phenomena) and at least establish a baseline so we'd know if something strange was happening.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Seems like a good way to resolve the whole "cattle mutilation" issue would be to do a Body Farm-type study. Leave some dead cows lying around and watch what happens to them. This would show what changes are the results of decomposition and scavengers (the usual explanations for the phenomena) and at least establish a baseline so we'd know if something strange was happening.

Maybe but the smell of dead cattle would differ than live ones and the effect of the so called electronically discharge from its ora within and outside the animal which might be one of many attractants for this hypothesis of strange awareness.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Seems like a good way to resolve the whole "cattle mutilation" issue would be to do a Body Farm-type study.

Already been done see: NIDS' paper by Dr. George Onett. It specifically addresses the question of the true nature of the "cauterized" looking incisions. Interesting reading and I agree that this observation of "laser" -like cuts made by untrained investigators, cops, ranchers, etc is often due to the natural process of stretching and drying of the "cuts." Add the dry climate and the intensity of the sun at the altitude of the SLV, for instance, and the process may occur even faster. This is a complicated subject. I have heard of several video monitoring experiments of carcasses that have been conducted over the years, as you've suggested. I'll do some digging and find out the particulars. I would rather be accurate than go on memory... I have returned to many cases and observed what happens to carcasses--some for years. I have seen magpies carve a near perfect circle out of the rear-end of a calf. Here is a photo of this scavenger action.

To the average observer, this would like like a rear reproductive coring, but it wasn't. etc etc

Ranchers are not idiots, they have seen more dead animals than they would like--it comes with the occupation. There is some kind of unknown monitoring program going on in the cattle pastures of the world and we need to properly investigate this mystery that is leaving behind thousands of pounds of physical evidence in Western culture's closet.

 

[NTS]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't know that studies like this had been done with cattle. It rocked me when I heard about the human Body Farm, but when you think about it that's the sort of knowledge investigators would need to have.

 

[Paul Kimball]

http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2006/01/canadian-veterinary-journal-article-on.html

Article on cattle mutilations in the Canadian Veterinary Journal.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Many thanks Paul--while rather gross, it was an interesting read.
Lance

I hear all too often people saying that veterinarians and scientists have never investigated the so-called animal mutilation phenomenon, and everytime I point them to this article, and ask: "have you read this?" I haven't found a single person yet who asserts that there is something paranormal about animal mutes who had.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

I hear all too often people saying that veterinarians and scientists have never investigated the so-called animal mutilation phenomenon, and everytime I point them to this article, and ask: "have you read this?" I haven't found a single person yet who asserts that there is something paranormal about animal mutes who had.

I think most of the reported cattle mutilations can be explained away. The photos provided by Paul show areas affected looking like those areas were ripped or shredded slightly:




Whereas these seem to be more precise or uniform showing a lack of shredding or ripping:



Whilst they are not definitive of "alien" interference they are certainly interesting.

I certainly don't think that just because veterinarians have investigated cases and found some to be natural, e.g cases of predation and scavengers, that there aren't alternative explanations, whether they be alien or otherwise.

 

[Brian Now]

Here's some more cattle mutilation in the news. They don't show anything in this story though.

 

[trainedobserver]

Here is an article about it.http://www.ajc.com/news/cows-killed-mutilated-on-648522.html
Cows killed, mutilated on Hall County cattle farm

 

[Angel of Ioren]

It's funny that this thread pops up today, just after I listened to Paul Kimball interview Kevin Randle about cattle mutilations. Some interesting points are brought up in the interview and I agree with their conclusions. All cattle mutilations can be explained without the need for anything nefarious or paranormal or alien to be involved.

Here's a link to the interview: The Other Side of Truth: Kevin Randle - Animal Mutilations (and some other things)

 

[pixelsmith]

I tend to believe there is nothing paranormal or abnormal about cattle mutilations. I remain open minded.

 

[trainedobserver]

I tend to believe there is nothing paranormal or abnormal about cattle mutilations. I remain open minded.

Same here. This latest case would be a good example for someone to investigate though don't you think? It seems to be ongoing. You have to wonder why they would all seem to be so mystified if it were easily blamed on predators.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

All cattle mutilations can be explained without the need for anything nefarious or paranormal or alien to be involved.

WRONG! That's like saying ALL UFO sightings can be explained. There are quite a number of cases that cannot be explained. Obviously KR hasn't done his homework. He should read the NIDS papers on the subject and review the BLT study.

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Same here. This latest case would be a good example for someone to investigate though don't you think?

FWIW: I have a call into the Hall County Sheriff. Even though I'm a busy guy, I make time to do the work and don't make excuses about it.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

WRONG! That's like saying ALL UFO sightings can be explained. There are quite a number of cases that cannot be explained. Obviously KR hasn't done his homework. He should read the NIDS papers on the subject and review the BLT study.

---------- Post added at 09:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

FWIW: I have a call into the Hall County Sheriff. Even though I'm a busy guy, I make time to do the work and don't make excuses about it.

Having listened to what he said in the interview, he seems to think the same thing about you. He mentioned that he pointed out some things to you and you pretty much ignored him. Have you read the study by the Alberta government on the topic?
You think you're right, so you're going to go to studies that support your evidence, even though they aren't carried out by actual scientists.

I'm glad that even though you're a busy guy you'll take the time to call the Hall County Sheriff. Important stuff, rally the troops and all, right Christopher? Unlike me you won't make excuses like spending time with family and such.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it does seem like you're referring to what I said in the Montreal thread so it does feel a little irritating.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Having listened to what he said in the interview, he seems to think the same thing about you. He mentioned that he pointed out some things to you and you pretty much ignored him. Have you read the study by the Alberta government on the topic?

Yes I have read it. I disagree with their conclusions but do agree (unlike LMH) that a large percentage of mute cases are unusual scavenger action--birds and insects are the main culprits. That DOES NOT mean that you can simply debunk the entire subject w/ a sniff and a backhanded wave.

You think you're right, so you're going to go to studies that support your evidence, even though they aren't carried out by actual scientists.

Wrong again Angelo. The studies were conducted by field biologists and veterinarian pathologists.

I'm glad that even though you're a busy guy you'll take the time to call the Hall County Sheriff. Important stuff...

Yeah, you are right Angelo, it is important stuff---thanks for noticing, dude... Hopefully Hall County investigator Daniel Korn is willing to be advised on how to properly obtain forensic samples that can be sent for analysis by veterinarian pathologists--free of charge. I won't bore you with their names or locations because you have no need to know.

Let's stop this petty snitting OK? It is beneath both of us.

 

[tyder001]

I don't want to get in the middle of anything here but one thing did strike me that Angel said:

so you're going to go to studies that support your evidence, even though they aren't carried out by actual scientists.


Now I don't know about "this" particular case but I've noticed that "skeptics" often don't consider people "real scientist" unless they are in agreement with a "historian" and a cranky old "magician." It's funny cause there are many scientist that don't agree with the redutionist theories. As for looking for support. Well, Angel if I remember right you said that "you only listen to skeptical podcast" except for the paracast. Sorry dude but it says tons about your motive. Yeah your a moderator here and maybe that's a credit to Gene and being open minded. But, think about the flip side. How much chance do ya think somebody who wasn't a "skeptic" would have of being a "moderator" on the jimmy randi forums? So, don't be so thinned skinned about being called out. After all it is called the Paracast and not the Bill Nye the "science" guy.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Yes I have read it. I disagree with their conclusions but do agree (unlike LMH) that a large percentage of mute cases are unusual scavenger action--birds and insects are the main culprits. That DOES NOT mean that you can simply debunk the entire subject w/ a sniff and a backhanded wave.

Wrong again Angelo. The studies were conducted by field biologists and veterinarian pathologists.

Yeah, you are right Angelo, it is important stuff---thanks for noticing, dude...

Oh well, I guess we reach different conclusions. No sense in arguing about this since regardless of what's presented you'll continue believing what you want to believe. No worries I'm satisfied with the answers I've seen. Once you have good evidence, you'll be able to change my mind.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Once you have good evidence, you'll be able to change my mind.

As I stated Angelo, there is good evidence but contrary to what you say, it will never change your mind. As far as "belief," I don't believe any of this stuff. I go out and investigate, research and allow the particulars of a case to point me in whatever direction the facts lead. Unlike you, I am open-minded and willing to spend the time it takes to get all the facts.