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"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013"

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

This is a good example of a modern or new-age religious myth. The flaw to all of this sort of thing, in my view, is thinking that human beings are something more than they actually are. You have to embrace a type of human-centrism to the universe where we are the darlings of evolution, god, or higher powers or at least more significant in the greater scheme of things than the millions of other species existing on the Earth at any given time. I think this is an illusion caused by our limited perspective where we see ourselves as individuals, autonomous organisms, rather than part of a greater system that overrides all our illusions of grandeur and significance with its own larger processes of which we are largely the unknowing participants.

Human consciousness does not seem to be evolving at all. In fact, I think you can argue that there is more insanity and irrationality presenting itself in society than ever before. Just read that article for a small taste. You can call me cynical I guess, but we appear for all practical purposes to be descending in a spiral of natural consequence and not preparing for some magical purple unicorn event complete with glitter.
 

Infolad1

Purveyor of Hidden Things
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

What do you think of the binary star theory of precession?
It's possible. But Cruttenden and his supporters are going to have to prove it.

Manifested reality is dualistic in nature. The sun is ultimate yang (expansive, centrifugal force) in our solar system. So it's a possibility that it has a yin (contractive, centripetal force) that moves with it. Things that have a yin modality also tend to be hidden, and only visible on a cyclical basis.

I actually see precession as a result of a number of different forces interacting with one another as an interdependent whole. One of those forces may be the hard to detect brown dwarf star Nemesis. One may also be the possible black hole at the galactic center. There's much still to be discovered by so called modern man.

I don't agree with Cruttenden's numbers. They don't match up with various observable phenomena that harmonize with the 25,920 precessional cycle (usually rounded to 26,000 years). I side with the ancients' observations.

In a nutshell, I still see the jury being out on binary star theory. Needs more proof.

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 AM ----------

This is a good example of a modern or new-age religious myth. The flaw to all of this sort of thing, in my view, is thinking that human beings are something more than they actually are. You have to embrace a type of human-centrism to the universe where we are the darlings of evolution, god, or higher powers or at least more significant in the greater scheme of things than the millions of other species existing on the Earth at any given time. I think this is an illusion caused by our limited perspective where we see ourselves as individuals, autonomous organisms, rather than part of a greater system that overrides all our illusions of grandeur and significance with its own larger processes of which we are largely the unknowing participants.

Human consciousness does not seem to be evolving at all. In fact, I think you can argue that there is more insanity and irrationality presenting itself in society than ever before. Just read that article for a small taste. You can call me cynical I guess, but we appear for all practical purposes to be descending in a spiral of natural consequence and not preparing for some magical purple unicorn event complete with glitter.

Your reasoning is good, but your premise is flawed.

I agree with you that the New age movement has royally screwed up a lot of things. Their main error is saying things without providing a means to prove it.

Human consciousness is actually an oxymoron. Consciousness is the observer of all of this. The term human actually means "earthbound man". When people say human, humanistic, humanitarian, etc., they're talking about this amalgamation of the reptilian & mammalian brain responses to stimuli, combined with the thoughts, opinions, & viewpoints that your mind produces. Most of these thoughts, opinions, & viewpoints are false and don't jibe with actual reality. It's the reason why the human self image is one of a perpetual screwup. It's the origin of the ego, the illusion of a separate persona. This is the state of most people on the planet, & the reason why things will get a whole lot worse before they get better.

But how do we prove this? And how do we prove what's beyond it?

that's what true spiritual cultivation systems such as buddhism, sufism, taoism, etc. are for, a way to prove this that anyone can do. The problem is that it's a 3 to 12 year process, and in our current "I want it right now" society, most people aren't going to do the work necessary to find out.

So you end up with people who read a lot of books, smoke Way too much weed, and start pontificating about things that they have no direct experience with. It's also how you end up with very smart people, rooted in the gross physical part of reality, who are able to debunk and cut to shreds the garbage spewed by the previous group. And their belief system doesn't even allow for spiritual cultivation techniques (technology), so they wouldn't do the necessary work to get the verification they want anyway.

We are all part of a greater system and greater purpose. But what that system is, and what that purpose is, most people in the world unfortunately don't know. And this is intentional. Makes it easier to control them if they think they're screwups, "sinners" that can't do any better.

A good place for people who want to know what this is all about to start would be William Bodri's meditation expert site:

Meditation techniques and guided lessons that teach you how to meditate

His stuff is straightforward, practical, & gets results.

As Buddha said, Believe nothing. Get a system that works, and find out for yourself. Know your Self. Make it real. Take it beyond belief, opinion, and what "you" "think".

Because you're not going to find out reading books, articles, chat forums, & looking at Youtube videos. These are just starting points.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013


Your reasoning is good, but your premise is flawed.
...
But how do we prove this? And how do we prove what's beyond it?

...that's what true spiritual cultivation systems such as ...
You are making an assumption that human thought lives have relevance to something other than another thinking human. All human spiritual cultivation systems are constructed within the same illusion. They have relevance within that context but nowhere else. As a species we have constructed numerous systems and philosophies that pretend to extend our reach beyond the barrier created by our limited perception and cognition of reality, but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations. While some practices have numerous benefits both social and personal, they often simultaneously promote an irrational and unsupportable view of the universe and the human condition in general.
 

Infolad1

Purveyor of Hidden Things
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

You are making an assumption that human thought lives have relevance to something other than another thinking human. All human spiritual cultivation systems are constructed within the same illusion. They have relevance within that context but nowhere else. As a species we have constructed numerous systems and philosophies that pretend to extend our reach beyond the barrier created by our limited perception and cognition of reality, but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations. While some practices have numerous benefits both social and personal, they often simultaneously promote an irrational and unsupportable view of the universe and the human condition in general.
And you're making a number of assumptions, and then painting them as absolute fact:

1. You assume that we don't have relevance. And when I say "we", I'm not talking about the standard definition of"human". I thought I made that clear in my previous post. and what exactly do you mean when you say " human thought lives"? Please clarify.

2. True spiritual cultivation systems are about shedding the human illusion.
They also have real & tangible effects, and are anything but illusory.

3. "As a species". So I take it you're part of the " man is a rational animal and nothing more" school of thought.

4. Quote "we have constructed numerous systems and philosophies that pretend to extend our reach beyond the barrier created by our limited perception and cognition of reality, but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations".

That's a pretty sweeping statement. Have you tested it? Have you found a legitimate system, kicked the tires, & done it for 10 to 20 years to come to this conclusion? If you haven't, then it's just an opinion that you're dressing up as actual fact. Real systems have real results. They're not New Age fluff, or intellectual masturbation. To say otherwise betrays a lack of knowledge on the matter.

5. "but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations".
This statement shows that you don't know what the imagination is, and what it can do with the proper knowledge and application. You may want to do some research on creative visualization applications in medicine and sports.

6. "While some practices have numerous benefits both social and personal, they often simultaneously promote an irrational and unsupportable view of the universe and the human condition in general".

You're giving another opinion, and stating it as fact.

Are you talking about organized belief systems like Christianity and it's offshoots, in which case I agree with you (although some branches of Gnosticism had it together pretty good, which is why they had to be gotten rid of. We can't have anyone knowing anything. Bad for business. Just have faith & believe).

Are you talking about the legitimate systems within Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism,kabbalah, Western Alchemy, Yoruba, etc.

Or are you just lumping them all in together? Please clarify.

As I've stated previously on numerous occasions, this is all intellectual BS unless you've actually done it. Everything I've said is heresay until you put in the time and are able to replicate it. That what true science is, a system of knowing. I've put in 15 years time to learn what I've learned, to know what I know, and to be able to do what I can do. To have an opinion is fine. To then attempt to turn your opinion into absolute fact isn't.

I'll always be the first to say don't believe anything I say or type. Find a legitimate system with tangible and reproducible results, learn it, do it, and verify it for yourself.

If you haven't, then you're expressing an opinion, a thought, a belief. And to paraphrase Patanjali:

"Words for which there is no objective reality is the greatest source of illusion".

I look forward to your reply.
 
V

Voyager

Guest
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

By all means continue gentlemen. Let's get into some heavy metaphysics!
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

And you're making a number of assumptions, and then painting them as absolute fact:
An unfortunate artifact of my writing style or my presumptuous nature? It probably amounts to the same thing. Assume an unwritten, "It seems to me ..." before my revelations of cosmic truth. (ah-hem)

1. You assume that we don't have relevance. And when I say "we", I'm not talking about the standard definition of"human". I thought I made that clear in my previous post. and what exactly do you mean when you say " human thought lives"? Please clarify.
I was speaking of the human thought life. The life of the mind. The so called spiritual life, if not taken literally. That which dreams of ascension to higher realms of reality or simply enlightenment. The human thought life is only relevant to another human's thought life. In other words, "The Universe doesn't seem to give a hoot!" Our actions impact the system locally for short amount of time, but otherwise the thoughts and activities of humanity in its entirety, are a passing vapor and a whiff of smoke.

2. True spiritual cultivation systems are about shedding the human illusion.
They also have real & tangible effects, and are anything but illusory.
I think this is entirely false. These systems reside within and are constrained to the human sphere of experience. Most, if not all, I can after all only speak about that which I have experienced or read about, present the human consciousness as transcendent, independent, and in the more presumptuous ones the individual personality is seen as a separate entity from the system that forms it. The human personality attempts to enshrine and glorify itself in a state of permanence through many of these ideologies, philosophies, religions and what have you. The natural state is all that is even possible. These other things while creating some perceived effect or another are attempts to leave the natural state. Aspirin creates a real and tangible effect for that matter.

3. "As a species". So I take it you're part of the " man is a rational animal and nothing more" school of thought.
Yes and no. [cue Gyorgy Ligeti's "Lux aeterna"] Human beings are more than they appear to be, but we are not as we imagine ourselves to be. This is the greatest truth I have encountered along the way. The way our brain/mind systems are constructed causes us to experience the silent observer as something it is not, an individual entity amongst other things. Like all truth it is something that cannot be communicated as much as realized. I strongly suspect we are more of an entity performing a function within the system as a species rather than as individual organisms. Back to relevance: individuals are relevant only in as much as they comprise and effect the larger entity. In the end however, the individual is itself a function of the larger organism that creates and supports it. There seems no escaping it.

4. Quote "we have constructed numerous systems and philosophies that pretend to extend our reach beyond the barrier created by our limited perception and cognition of reality, but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations".

That's a pretty sweeping statement. Have you tested it? Have you found a legitimate system, kicked the tires, & done it for 10 to 20 years to come to this conclusion? If you haven't, then it's just an opinion that you're dressing up as actual fact. Real systems have real results. They're not New Age fluff, or intellectual masturbation. To say otherwise betrays a lack of knowledge on the matter.
My point is that once you realize that all of these systems are resource bound by their very nature (human constructs) and have no chance of achieving escape velocity so to speak, their pompous posturing becomes incredibly comical or nauseating depending on your constitution. Results may be achieved within the simulation, illusion, or however you want to couch it, but the results are bound within it. As long as the practitioner realizes this ...

5. "but these things can do little more than explore our imaginations".
This statement shows that you don't know what the imagination is, and what it can do with the proper knowledge and application. You may want to do some research on creative visualization applications in medicine and sports.
Now you're off in the weeds. No matter. I stand rebuked!

6. "While some practices have numerous benefits both social and personal, they often simultaneously promote an irrational and unsupportable view of the universe and the human condition in general".

You're giving another opinion, and stating it as fact.
What, you want examples? The entire ascension movement for one. David Wilcock and his ilk just scratch the surface. All of the major religious practices are rife with superstitious nonsense and non-supportable world views.

Are you talking about organized belief systems like Christianity and it's offshoots, in which case I agree with you (although some branches of Gnosticism had it together pretty good, which is why they had to be gotten rid of. We can't have anyone knowing anything. Bad for business. Just have faith & believe)..


Are you talking about the legitimate systems within Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism,kabbalah, Western Alchemy, Yoruba, etc.

Or are you just lumping them all in together? Please clarify.
Yes sweet Jesus. All of them. Even the one I seem to be describing here. Every single last one of them are human inventions existing solely within the human minds and no where else. They are stories we tell ourselves about the greater other of our imaginations, largely not realizing they are for all practical purposes an exercise in whistling in the dark.

As I've stated previously on numerous occasions, this is all intellectual BS unless you've actually done it. Everything I've said is heresay until you put in the time and are able to replicate it. That what true science is, a system of knowing. I've put in 15 years time to learn what I've learned, to know what I know, and to be able to do what I can do. To have an opinion is fine. To then attempt to turn your opinion into absolute fact isn't.
It took me something like four decades to see through that glass darkly. Yes, these are my opinions and I bought and paid for them, I haven't borrowed them from anyone. Yes, this is how it seems to me and your mileage may vary.

In short, enlightenment is a distraction and ascension is a pipe dream. Smoke it up if you like. I changed my brand.

B.T.W. I appreciate the good-hearted exchange.
 

Infolad1

Purveyor of Hidden Things
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that. Cheers.
 
V

Voyager

Guest
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

All I seek is the truth, and a greater understanding of reality. Reality is relative to your frame of reference. Much of the New-Age is movement is distasteful. However, just because there are a few bad apples doesn't necessarily mean all of the apples in the barrel are rotten! We all need to temper our egos, and arrogance, OM.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

Consciousness is the observer of all of this.

Bingo! 8)

Bingo is all I wanted to say. However, I got an error message that my post was to short. So, here ya go. Words,words,words,words.

But, finally as to my point.
Bingo!
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

All I seek is the truth, and a greater understanding of reality. Reality is relative to your frame of reference.
This is my position also. I am seeking a better understanding of myself and reality. This has required me to reject a great deal of what I had previously accepted. Our frame of reference is certainly an important concept to all of this, perhaps the central one. We have to start there. I'm saying that our frame of reference ​is dictated by the way our brain/mind systems process the real world. It produces a version of the outside world and ourselves in it that we mistake for the real world by default. It has been my experience that realizing that all you ever experience is your own consciousness in the act of portraying the invisible and immaterial world puts a new spin on things, opening up many possibilities on one hand while mitigating others.

Much of the New-Age is movement is distasteful. However, just because there are a few bad apples doesn't necessarily mean all of the apples in the barrel are rotten! We all need to temper our egos, and arrogance, OM.
I'm not saying it's all rotten or that its all ineffective. I'm saying that these philosophies, ideologies, and religions generally portray the relationship between humanity and the universe incorrectly and most dangerously so.

I apologize if I'm coming across that way. Arrogance and vanity absolutely define much of this spiritual/religions nonsense. I think many of humanities problems have stemmed from its continued insistence that it is something it is not rather than accepting things as they truly are and just working with it.

"Consciousness is the observer of all of this."
Bingo!
Here is the thing though tyder. What is termed the silent observer and that which is being observed are one and the same. The consciousness experience of the observer and the observed is one thing that only casually appears to be separate inside our heads. It's an illusion, an artifact of the processes inside of the brain. And that's ok, that's the way its supposed to work. People can become aware of this spontaneously, through mediation or contemplation, or they can go their whole lives unaffected by not realizing it. One of the consequences, to me at least, is the absolute shattering of all previous paradigms of the self, spirituality, and all that jazz. I think the whole consciousness new-age thing is predicated on a major misconception. Basically, that's my truck with it.

I apologize if I've come off abrasive or preachy.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

Trained, I for one don't find you to be arrogant. I do think you take certain things for granted. At times you make a comment as if it is fact and I disagree. On the other hand when I go back and actually "read" what you say, I find that you do preface it often with "In my experience or my opinion." When you do that you are certainly not arrogant. I honestly believe that you were hurt by religion and you jettisoned the whole damn thing. That appears to work for you and maybe it's even vital to your own mental health. But, I honestly disagree with your world view. I don't find it scientific or non scientific. I just simply (because of my own life experience) disagree. But, you and Angel and a few others on here have done me a very real service. I'm not kidding. Y'all have challenged my way of looking at things and have actually encouraged me to think critically about some things that are easier to take for granted than to actually think deeply about. Still, when I think deeply about it I'm still left with the conviction that it's not a random and souless universe. I honestly "believe" we are conscious beings and not meat sacks or meat bots. But, I have no proof I can ram down your throat or force feed you. After all truth needs no defense. I have had dreams and visions and yes even prayers and meditations that fly completely in the face of a reductionist materislitic realty. On the other hand "shit happens" and my dogma was run over a long time ago.

Peace
Steve
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

...Still, when I think deeply about it I'm still left with the conviction that it's not a random and souless universe. I honestly "believe" we are conscious beings and not meat sacks or meat bots. ..
If you think that I think that we are "meat sacks or meat bots" in a "random and soulless universe" you have misunderstood me. Also, you are incorrect to think that I "was burned by religion" and therefore have rejected all them as a consequence. It isn't that way at all and I'm bit insulted that you'd think I'd be that shallow.

I have had dreams and visions and yes even prayers and meditations that fly completely in the face of a reductionist materislitic realty.
That is the nature of such things. What I am talking about does not exclude or devalue those types of experiences you are talking about, it just puts them in what I believe to be the proper context.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

If you think that I think that we are "meat sacks or meat bots" in a "random and soulless universe" you have misunderstood me. Also, you are incorrect to think that I "was burned by religion" and therefore have rejected all them as a consequence. It isn't that way at all and I'm bit insulted that you'd think I'd be that shallow.

I am so sorry. I didn't mean to insult you. I can only go by what I have read on the forum and from our conversations. To be honest with you from what you have said in the past I absolutely "assumed" you did think or do think we are souless meat bots. However, generalizations are almost always wrong so I'm sorry. I do value your input and have (as I stated) found it a plus in my own considration of such things. However, I also respect you enough not to pussy foot around when talking to you. That's why I simply state what I feel when we are discussing a subject. As for religion I read (perhaps misread) between the lines. You have often referred to your former faith and you have often done so in a way that (to me) seemed to say you were disillusioned or hurt or had family and loved ones hurt by it. Anyway, I truly didn't mean any disrespect. Matter of fact that was and is far from what I intended.

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------



have had dreams and visions and yes even prayers and meditations that fly completely in the face of a reductionist materislitic realty.
That is the nature of such things. What I am talking about does not exclude or devalue those types of experiences you are talking about, it just puts them in what I believe to be the proper context.
However, since we are being frank here. I find your intrepretation of what I said to be a little condesending and insulting. What, I said does not and will not fit in a materilistic or even athiestic box.
Peace,
Steve.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

...To be honest with you from what you have said in the past I absolutely "assumed" you did think or do think we are souless meat bots.
To clarify. I do not believe in "souls" that are some ethereal component of a human being. The entire human being is "the soul" if you want to use the term for something, the "soul" may even be extended to include the entire human population.

.As for religion I read (perhaps misread) between the lines. You have often referred to your former faith and you have often done so in a way that (to me) seemed to say you were disillusioned or hurt or had family and loved ones hurt by it. Anyway, I truly didn't mean any disrespect. Matter of fact that was and is far from what I intended.
Steve, I honestly do not know one single person who has not been hurt by religion. Yes I experienced a collapse of faith. In rejecting it I was freed to entertain other possibilities. Yes, I am disillusioned by religion and the make-believe popularized spirituality that is so prevalent, but it does not color my thinking in these matters as you seem to think.

These are complicated subjects often ill-communicated and misunderstood in the best of circumstances under the best of intentions. Any misunderstanding on your part about what I've been saying I chalk up to my failing not yours.

However, since we are being frank here. I find your intrepretation of what I said to be a little condesending and insulting. What, I said does not and will not fit in a materilistic or even athiestic box.
Well, my basic premise here is that were we to properly define these things that we would find our preconceived notions about them are false and that the apparent conflict between what might be referred to as a materialistic scientific view and these things you feel must conflict with it in all reality do not. Modern science has shown us that there is a invisible, immaterial (as we think of it) world that we actually exist in and that the world that we actually experience as our consciousness is something entirely different. This explains or at least provides the mechanism for phenomena that you are referring to. As I said, it doesn't demean or dismiss these things, it just places them in the proper context and in my view, harmonizes much of the spiritual vs. materialism argument.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

This explains or at least provides the mechanism for phenomena that you are referring to.
It doesn't at all. We simply don't have a good answer for consouniceness. (scuse muh spellin.) However, I'm not gonna change your mind (nor should I) and I do agree with much of what you say about religion. However, I also have had some positive things in that context so perhaps I have a more symphathetic view on it than you do. Still, the compliments I gave you were and are real. The misunderstandings on both our parts are mostly from our own individual life expereince and I know neither of us mean any harm.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

It doesn't at all. We simply don't have a good answer for consouniceness.
At the level at which I'm trying to discuss it, I certainly believe that we do.

I am talking about things at a system level.

In short, all I am saying we do understand consciousness as being the 3D representation of the exterior world including the somatic sensory information and our thoughts. This does include the silent observer as well. We have to include all the bits of our mind that we are actually aware of in our definition of consciousness. I think it is a mistake to remove the silent observer from the mix and elevate it to some higher status. Perhaps that is where we have the major departure. There are certainly processes that we are unaware of that lead up to the emergence of consciousness which in the greater scheme of things prove to actually be the real driver or the will. The conscious mind is almost like seeing a film projected onto a screen. The real work was done at some point in the past and displayed only after it has been completed.

I've said this before but it bears repeating I guess. The Real World in which we move and have our being is an invisible, immaterial, realm that cannot be directly experienced. (sounds like the common understanding of the spirit world doesn't it?) All any human being has ever or will ever experience is a their own consciousness portraying the exterior real world. What consciousness is actually composed of and so forth doesn't even enter into it for me.

So anyway. There you go. The real world is the spirit world of myth and legend. The only thing we can experience is our minds which we mistake for a real material world. It's upside down.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

I sometime wonder how far apart we really are in our thoughts. At times I think worlds apart since I do believe in the reality of spirit (for want of a better word.) But, at the same time I "think" I understand what you are trying to say and I don't see it as an absolute block to a greater, even mysterious reality. But, since I've already pissed you off once today by assuming ;) I'm gonna let it go here. Have a good one. I gotta get back to social workin and arguing the needs of personal instead of buerocratic paper work to my uhh, "superiors." 8) I'll check back in tonight.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

I sometime wonder how far apart we really are in our thoughts. At times I think worlds apart since I do believe in the reality of spirit (for want of a better word.)
Define it Steve. If you cannot define it, it is a meaningless and counterproductive term to use, confounding rather than communicating. Here is one I would use. The invisible, immaterial, real universe that exists on the other side of the human senses.

But, since I've already pissed you off once today by assuming I'm gonna let it go here. .
That is just so much unnecessary drama. You have not "pissed me off". Do I really strike you as someone with the emotional makeup of a child? I was just trying to convey my surprise and disappointment that you would think I would be that shallow of a person. No harm no foul.

How far apart are we? I'm thinking 584 miles give or take. If you miss the exit, 590 miles.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

Define it Steve. If you cannot define it, it is a meaningless and counterproductive term to use, confounding rather than communicating. Here is one I would use. The invisible, immaterial, real universe that exists on the other side of the human senses.
Rick, I don't know if you realize it or not but you can't "define" or at least you haven't to my satisfaction anything you have declared either. Simply saying "system" or science or chemical reaction doesn't actually define anything anymore than saying God, Darwin, Budda or evolution defines inner or even outer reality. I know it's tough but there really are more things in heaven and earth and it really doesn't all break down to a chemical firing in the brain. At least I don't think it does. Also, 584 miles isn't that far cosmically speaking. 8)
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
"Expert ET contactee: Half of humanity ascends to 5th dimension on March 21, 2013

Rick, I don't know if you realize it or not but you can't "define" or at least you haven't to my satisfaction anything you have declared either. Simply saying "system" or science or chemical reaction doesn't actually define anything anymore than saying God, Darwin, Budda or evolution defines inner or even outer reality. I know it's tough but there really are more things in heaven and earth and it really doesn't all break down to a chemical firing in the brain. At least I don't think it does. Also, 584 miles isn't that far cosmically speaking. 8)
Whatever Steve. I just defined what I think of the spirit world to be. What part of that should I expound on to make it clear to you?

What do you mean when you use the words, Spirit, God and so forth? Do you know? I don't know what you mean.

What do I mean by System in that discussion?
The "system" is the whole of creation. Creation is understood in this context to mean everything that exists.
The system is alive with processes that are governed by rules and laws. The solar system is an example of a subsystem within it. Like the solar system we are essentially functions or parts of that larger system. That doesn't demean us in any way shape or form but rather should cause you to identify more with the whole. Is that understandable?

As far as the human brain/mind system and how it senses, interprets, and then creates the reality that you experience, any good neurological text will prove out what I've said about it.

I think that due to the way we are constructed we can't actually drill down much further than the system level to describe these metaphysical concepts. Yes, there is a large component of reality (the majority of it) that is invisible and incomprehensible to us, from which all sorts of anomalous things are generated. And that is the problem with people saying they know what is beyond that perceptual barrier. All we can do is describe what we experience through the filter of our central nervous system.

What in the hell were we talking about anyway? Sheesh.
 


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