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COVID-19 News



Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And:

More I read this, the more it appears that the origins are far more complicated than some secret plot by the Chinese Communist Party to infect the world and make the rest of the world hate them.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
But that doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab. But scientists can apparently detect whether a virus is genetically modified/created or has a natural source. It could have all been due to the fact that some of these labs, worldwide, are notorious for unsatisfactory safety measures.

And here's more about Trump's doozies:

 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
But that doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab. But scientists can apparently detect whether a virus is genetically modified/created or has a natural source.
That's what I initially assumed to be the case, but it turned out that the way scientists can tell if a virus came from a lab is by the scientific records of its development. Without them, because viruses worked on in labs ultimately come from natural origins to begin with, there may be no way of determining whether or not an undocumented virus that is very similar to a known natural virus is entirely natural or not.

In the case of SARS-CoV-2, the advocates of the natural mutation theory assume an intermediary species had to be involved because the jump to humans could not have been made without it. However, no specimen of an intermediate species with SARS-CoV-2 has been found. Meanwhile those looking into the possibility of a lab assisted virus, have found the scientific trail that leaves virtually no doubt that it was being worked on at the Wuhan lab.

This doesn't mean that the virus definitely came from the Wuhan lab, but what are the chances of an identical virus mutating naturally by sheer coincidence at the nearby Wuhan market? Why was the initial outbreak covered-up and the samples and evidence destroyed? There would be no need for that if it was a natural mutation. But there would be a need if it was a classified lab experiment.
It could have all been due to the fact that some of these labs, worldwide, are notorious for unsatisfactory safety measures.
Yes. That is possible, but then we're looking at a case where they still knew about the problem and let an estimated 5 million people out of Wuhan, many on international flights. Again, even if the original infection was accidental, it's like your dog accidentally getting rabies, and then knowingly opening the gate and letting it run around the neighborhood biting people. There's no other way I can see to look at it ( right now ).
And here's more about Trump's doozies:
Sure, but then again, what was he supposed to do? Tell the country a devastating disease has escaped from China and is about to cause mass casualties in the USA? That would have just led to a major mass panic. It was bad enough with the level of downplay he gave it. The question is whether or not his downplay was intentional to prevent panic while getting a plan in place, or just another example of his ill-informed decision making.

I don't know all those answers because I don't have all the facts. The daily briefings haven't been made public. At least one has been denied to even exist, and we don't know how long those at the top were setting things in motion before they finally told the rest of us. In the end, we'll probably learn that better decisions could have been made sooner, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Even though I'd like nothing more than to see Trump replaced by someone who is at least likeable ( to me ), I'm forced to reserve judgement on the politics of Trump ( in this particular matter ) until more facts are known. Whether or not he completely bumbled things and should be blamed is also secondary ( IMO ) to the dangers of letting China continue to act so irresponsibly. There is the rest of the world out there besides the USA.
 
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Ezechiel

Paranormal Adept
Well... seems someone opened 'Pandora's box'. Whether it was through a Chinese 'wet market' putrid stew or some bio-weapon genetic tinkering done by unscrupulous and careless scientists a few blocks away at the Wuhan disease lab.... does it really matter ? In the context of China, IMHO it certainly does.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Chinese brainwashing camps (re-education of Muslims) and tolerating 'wet markets' after outbreaks like SARS... leaves you wondering... who needs the re-education here ? Are 'wet markets' used as covers for intense bio-weapon development? I mean fool me once, twice,... (A bit like UFO's covering up top secret USAF craft development). Yeah that's it... make a mistake in the lab and blame it on the wet market. %!@#!@

How far does racial intolerance go? Can it lead to something even more sinister. How about the development of 'ethnic' bio-weapons... If you can't re-educate them... why not create an adapted virus?

Imagine, just for a moment, this kind of technology in the hands of Adolf Hitler. Josef Mengele's definition of heaven is really that lab in Wuhan... except he was born too early. If I was a betting man, my chips are on that level 4 (BSL-4) in Wuhan in the unfortunate context of an intolerant China.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and humanity is learning that lesson one more time... will we get another chance? This time we have Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Xi Jinping.... not to mention the nut case in North Korea.

Is China planning a Fourth Reich ? You tell me. This level of authoritarianism on a planetary scale has a pre-WWIII stench.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Whether it was through a Chinese 'wet market' putrid stew or some bio-weapon genetic tinkering done by unscrupulous and careless scientists a few blocks away at the Wuhan disease lab.... does it really matter ? In the context of China, IMHO it certainly does ...
And well it should. The CCP makes Trump look like a choirboy.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Here's an example of a typical Trump interview, and you can see readily why his approach has, in fact, caused havoc in this country:

 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And based on the following, I have a feeling they will never figure out how this virus actually got started.

I think the Chinese have claimed we brought it there, which is one of the more outrageous claims.

 

Ezechiel

Paranormal Adept

China Facing Rising Global Backlash Akin To Tiananmen Square, Internal Report Warns

I wonder why China closed access to it's lab and research eh? Sorry guys, the shit is about to hit the fan ! ... and guess who has major real estate assets in the USA ?

CICIR, an influential think tank that until 1980 was within the Ministry of State Security and advises the Chinese government on foreign and security policy, did not reply to a request for comment.
Reuters couldn’t determine to what extent the stark assessment described in the paper reflects positions held by China’s state leaders, and to what extent, if at all, it would influence policy. But the presentation of the report shows how seriously Beijing takes the threat of a building backlash that could threaten what China sees as its strategic investments overseas and its view of its security standing
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
And based on the following, I have a feeling they will never figure out how this virus actually got started. I think the Chinese have claimed we brought it there, which is one of the more outrageous claims.

We aren't seeing the actual intelligence report, just the repeated opinions and denials we've already covered. Their one quote:"... Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that (this virus) evolved in nature and then jumped species." is yet another example of the type of red herring I talked about previously. Yes, this virus did evolve in nature. The part they don't focus on is "and then it jumped species" which is the part that matters, and which they have insufficient evidence to back-up as entirely natural. They're just doing the "If we repeat the same thing over and over again enough times people will believe it's true routine." Meanwhile the scientific trail for the species jump leads straight back to the Wuhan lab.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Long and short is that we still don't know.
We know enough.
But what we do know is that infections appeared before we realized it:
Nothing new in that report. If there is, then it's in details we haven't seen, like whether or not any of the tests reveal a history that doesn't lead back to Wuhan. If the claims that there were cases before the Wuhan outbreak is true, it would strengthen the case that it was a bioweapons test on an unsuspecting public. In which case they'd want that covered-up as much as possible.
When Trump instituted his partial China travel ban, it was way way too late.
Yes, it was too late because Chinese officials let an estimated 5 million people leave Wuhan, many on international flights, knowing they were infected, without alerting other countries ( including Trump ) beforehand. The only way Trump could have shut down travel soon enough, is to have known that infected fliers were leaving Wuhan in January, and then immediatly prevented those planes from landing in the USA, or letting passengers originating from Wuhan into the USA.


At that time there were no known cases in the USA


I know the Trump haters just want it to be all Trump's fault, and I would not have voted for him, but at the same time, could any president be blamed for not shutting down the entire country and declaring a national emergency when there were still only 15 known cases in the USA? Maybe yes, but only in hindsight, unless that is, we ever get to see the actual Intelligence reports and have hearings that clearly prove negligence. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I know the Trump haters just want it to be all Trump's fault, and I would not have voted for him, but at the same time, could any president be blamed for not shutting down the entire country and declaring a national emergency when there were still only 15 known cases in the USA? Maybe yes, but only in hindsight, unless that is, we ever get to see the actual Intelligence reports and have hearings that clearly prove negligence. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

Trump knew weeks before there were only 15 cases that a pandemic might occur. His daily briefings — which he never reads — warned him about the problems.

In early 2017, Obama's team provided Trump's team guidelines on dealing with disasters such as terrorist acts and pandemics. It included a large document spelling out the recommendations. Trump ignored all this and pretended it was nothing.

The more we learn about what happened during January and February, the more it's obvious that Trump didn't want to hear it. And when it was impossible to hide the extent of the disaster, he wa slow to use the tools the government had to hep expand production of masks, ventilators and other protective gear.

Trump still says that it was all Obama's fault, even though Trump was President when the virus outbreak occurred. Pathetic.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Trump knew weeks before there were only 15 cases that a pandemic might occur. His daily briefings — which he never reads — warned him about the problems.

In early 2017, Obama's team provided Trump's team guidelines on dealing with disasters such as terrorist acts and pandemics. It included a large document spelling out the recommendations. Trump ignored all this and pretended it was nothing.

The more we learn about what happened during January and February, the more it's obvious that Trump didn't want to hear it. And when it was impossible to hide the extent of the disaster, he wa slow to use the tools the government had to hep expand production of masks, ventilators and other protective gear.

Trump still says that it was all Obama's fault, even though Trump was President when the virus outbreak occurred. Pathetic.
I'm not sure how many times we need to go around in a circle on this. There's no doubt that Trump deflects blame, but just because he deflects it onto China doesn't mean it isn't true that China is primarily to blame, or that damage control against that blame includes false claims of racism and debunking.

So in the clip below, Trump haters aren't likely to see how the reporter very intentionally sets Trump up for such a deflection onto China in order to make him ( and by extension any blame on China ) look racist. People need to look beyond their dislike for Trump to see what else is really going on. Whether or not Trump is or isn't racist is totally beside the point.

 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Sorry, Randall. But I saw the exchange. She set him up for nothing. Trump picked on her because she is a Chinese-American woman, who emigrated here when she was 3 and is a US citizen. He used her heritage as an excuse to rant about China.

The problem is that you can't ask real questions of Trump before he freaks out, and he is especially nasty towards women of color. Check the archives.

And look how the coward-in-chief runs away when people ask him reasonable questions he can't answer. That's why he favors Fox News and other outlets that are devoted to his interests.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And, as I said earlier, the Obama administration attempted to prepare the incoming Trump administration, in early 2017, for such disasters as pandemic attacks. But Trump and McConnell continue to lie about it.

So:

 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And, today, the dunce-in-chief announced that it's not really that important to have more tests, that if fewer people were tested, fewer people would be reported as infected.

Don't know how that's supposed to impact the number of people who will die if their deaths are reported or not.

But that's our "Commander in Chief."

His latest awesome vaccine project is just smoke and mirrors. It won't speed up the ability of scientists to test and perfect a vaccine and get it available.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Sorry, Randall. But I saw the exchange. She set him up for nothing. Trump picked on her because she is a Chinese-American woman, who emigrated here when she was 3 and is a US citizen. He used her heritage as an excuse to rant about China. The problem is that you can't ask real questions of Trump before he freaks out, and he is especially nasty towards women of color. Check the archives.
Sorry you don't see it when it's entirely obvious to me. Trump didn't "pick on" her at all in this clip. She set him up with baited question ( which is low ), and then when Trump says to ask China ( which although a deflection, is also entirely reasonable ), she pulled the racism card and starts arguing, which he tried to avoid by moving on to another reporter, who was waiting in the wings to take over the ambush. So he simply shut down the interview. So now anybody who wants to blame China is racist? That's BS.

It looks to me like the people who hate Trump will take any opportunity they can to spin his answer into some sort of racist or misogynistic outburst. Mind you, Trump's history makes him an easy target. But look again and try to set your anti Trump bias aside for 2 minutes. The reporter does more freaking out than Trump, and with the specific intent to imply that his answer is racist because she's asian. Look how she moves her face mask out of the way and sticks her face out to emphasize she's asian while focusing the attention on her specifically.

There was no relevant question from her about the pandemic. The questioning was entirely political and designed to smear Trump right from the start, and he took the bait. It was a total setup. If you can't see that then you need to reset your objectivity.

 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
There was no ambush. I saw the entire season and what she asked was based on what he said.

More to the point, making racist comments against people of color is part and parcel of Trump's playback. Many of his followers adore that approach. Blaming China is legitimate, baiting a Chinese-American woman isn't.
 

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