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COVID-19 News

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I think we need to separate the two main issues.

Yes, the Chinese suppressed the existence and/or severity of the crisis, and they also influenced others, such as WHO, to be late to the game.

While it is possible that the virus came out of a lab, that doesn't mean it was necessarily deliberate. Yes, a screwup is certainly possible.

At the end of the day, it's most important that the pandemic be minimized as soon as possible and the world get back to work. After that, it's important that we find out what really happened and do what's necessary to make sure or at least reduce the possibility of it happening with yet another virus.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
... While it is possible that the virus came out of a lab, that doesn't mean it was necessarily deliberate. Yes, a screwup is certainly possible.
This is where the fine edge of the wedge falls in favor of shadowy. The scores add up this way ( so far ):
  1. It is possible that the outbreak was deliberate? Yes. Score 1 point in favor of deliberate.
  2. It is possible that the outbreak was accidental? Yes. Score 1 point in favor of accidental.
  3. The score is now even, but either way it provides VERY convenient plausible deniability. No points but it looks bad.
  4. How likely is a leak from a high security virology lab? Extremely minimal. Again no points, but it also looks bad.
  5. There was an initial effort to cover-up the outbreak that cannot be seen as anything but deliberate. Score 1 point in favor of deliberate.
  6. The authorities knowingly let an estimated 5 million people out of Wuhan, many on international flights after the cover-up, knowing the outbreak was much worse than they were reporting. It is impossible for this to be anything but deliberate. Score another point in favor of deliberate.
  7. There is historical evidence that the use of bioweapons, drugs, and other tactics are part of the CCP's strategy to destabilize rival nations. This doesn't prove it was deliberate, but it deserves at least half a point because it is totally unreasonable to think that CCP military strategists aren't studying this pandemic from a strategic point of view, or that they had not already studied it prior to the outbreak, and therefore they must have had a really good idea about what would happen when they deliberately let the virus out of the country.

    So even if the initial outbreak was accidental, it's like finding out your dog has rabies, covering it up, and then deliberately opening the gate so it can run around the neighborhood biting people. IMO it amounts to the same thing as a deliberate attack. There is no other way to look at it unless one believes that top CCP scientists, engineers, leaders, and military were totally inept.
Final score:
  • Accidental - 1
  • Deliberate - 3½
At the end of the day, it's most important that the pandemic be minimized as soon as possible and the world get back to work. After that, it's important that we find out what really happened and do what's necessary to make sure or at least reduce the possibility of it happening with yet another virus.
Yes of course. We have more immediate concerns than who is to blame. That is unless this is part of a larger plan. We haven't been told the whole truth about this pandemic from the start, and we're still not getting it. But anyone who does a little digging can see the dark side of the force is at work here.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo brought up a very important matter that has been overlooked.

The strain of coronavirus that first infected New York State DID NOT come from China. It came from Europe, most likely Italy, which got infected from China before President Trump instituted the partial travel ban on China for which he takes credit.

That ban did pretty much nothing to stop it, just as most of the things Trump didn't do but claims he did.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And:

More I read this, the more it appears that the origins are far more complicated than some secret plot by the Chinese Communist Party to infect the world and make the rest of the world hate them.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
But that doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab. But scientists can apparently detect whether a virus is genetically modified/created or has a natural source. It could have all been due to the fact that some of these labs, worldwide, are notorious for unsatisfactory safety measures.

And here's more about Trump's doozies:

 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
But that doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab. But scientists can apparently detect whether a virus is genetically modified/created or has a natural source.
That's what I initially assumed to be the case, but it turned out that the way scientists can tell if a virus came from a lab is by the scientific records of its development. Without them, because viruses worked on in labs ultimately come from natural origins to begin with, there may be no way of determining whether or not an undocumented virus that is very similar to a known natural virus is entirely natural or not.

In the case of SARS-CoV-2, the advocates of the natural mutation theory assume an intermediary species had to be involved because the jump to humans could not have been made without it. However, no specimen of an intermediate species with SARS-CoV-2 has been found. Meanwhile those looking into the possibility of a lab assisted virus, have found the scientific trail that leaves virtually no doubt that it was being worked on at the Wuhan lab.

This doesn't mean that the virus definitely came from the Wuhan lab, but what are the chances of an identical virus mutating naturally by sheer coincidence at the nearby Wuhan market? Why was the initial outbreak covered-up and the samples and evidence destroyed? There would be no need for that if it was a natural mutation. But there would be a need if it was a classified lab experiment.
It could have all been due to the fact that some of these labs, worldwide, are notorious for unsatisfactory safety measures.
Yes. That is possible, but then we're looking at a case where they still knew about the problem and let an estimated 5 million people out of Wuhan, many on international flights. Again, even if the original infection was accidental, it's like your dog accidentally getting rabies, and then knowingly opening the gate and letting it run around the neighborhood biting people. There's no other way I can see to look at it ( right now ).
And here's more about Trump's doozies:
Sure, but then again, what was he supposed to do? Tell the country a devastating disease has escaped from China and is about to cause mass casualties in the USA? That would have just led to a major mass panic. It was bad enough with the level of downplay he gave it. The question is whether or not his downplay was intentional to prevent panic while getting a plan in place, or just another example of his ill-informed decision making.

I don't know all those answers because I don't have all the facts. The daily briefings haven't been made public. At least one has been denied to even exist, and we don't know how long those at the top were setting things in motion before they finally told the rest of us. In the end, we'll probably learn that better decisions could have been made sooner, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Even though I'd like nothing more than to see Trump replaced by someone who is at least likeable ( to me ), I'm forced to reserve judgement on the politics of Trump ( in this particular matter ) until more facts are known. Whether or not he completely bumbled things and should be blamed is also secondary ( IMO ) to the dangers of letting China continue to act so irresponsibly. There is the rest of the world out there besides the USA.
 
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Ezechiel

Paranormal Adept
Well... seems someone opened 'Pandora's box'. Whether it was through a Chinese 'wet market' putrid stew or some bio-weapon genetic tinkering done by unscrupulous and careless scientists a few blocks away at the Wuhan disease lab.... does it really matter ? In the context of China, IMHO it certainly does.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Chinese brainwashing camps (re-education of Muslims) and tolerating 'wet markets' after outbreaks like SARS... leaves you wondering... who needs the re-education here ? Are 'wet markets' used as covers for intense bio-weapon development? I mean fool me once, twice,... (A bit like UFO's covering up top secret USAF craft development). Yeah that's it... make a mistake in the lab and blame it on the wet market. %!@#!@

How far does racial intolerance go? Can it lead to something even more sinister. How about the development of 'ethnic' bio-weapons... If you can't re-educate them... why not create an adapted virus?

Imagine, just for a moment, this kind of technology in the hands of Adolf Hitler. Josef Mengele's definition of heaven is really that lab in Wuhan... except he was born too early. If I was a betting man, my chips are on that level 4 (BSL-4) in Wuhan in the unfortunate context of an intolerant China.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and humanity is learning that lesson one more time... will we get another chance? This time we have Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Xi Jinping.... not to mention the nut case in North Korea.

Is China planning a Fourth Reich ? You tell me. This level of authoritarianism on a planetary scale has a pre-WWIII stench.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Whether it was through a Chinese 'wet market' putrid stew or some bio-weapon genetic tinkering done by unscrupulous and careless scientists a few blocks away at the Wuhan disease lab.... does it really matter ? In the context of China, IMHO it certainly does ...
And well it should. The CCP makes Trump look like a choirboy.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Here's an example of a typical Trump interview, and you can see readily why his approach has, in fact, caused havoc in this country:

 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And based on the following, I have a feeling they will never figure out how this virus actually got started.

I think the Chinese have claimed we brought it there, which is one of the more outrageous claims.

 

Ezechiel

Paranormal Adept

China Facing Rising Global Backlash Akin To Tiananmen Square, Internal Report Warns

I wonder why China closed access to it's lab and research eh? Sorry guys, the shit is about to hit the fan ! ... and guess who has major real estate assets in the USA ?

CICIR, an influential think tank that until 1980 was within the Ministry of State Security and advises the Chinese government on foreign and security policy, did not reply to a request for comment.
Reuters couldn’t determine to what extent the stark assessment described in the paper reflects positions held by China’s state leaders, and to what extent, if at all, it would influence policy. But the presentation of the report shows how seriously Beijing takes the threat of a building backlash that could threaten what China sees as its strategic investments overseas and its view of its security standing
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
And based on the following, I have a feeling they will never figure out how this virus actually got started. I think the Chinese have claimed we brought it there, which is one of the more outrageous claims.
We aren't seeing the actual intelligence report, just the repeated opinions and denials we've already covered. Their one quote:"... Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that (this virus) evolved in nature and then jumped species." is yet another example of the type of red herring I talked about previously. Yes, this virus did evolve in nature. The part they don't focus on is "and then it jumped species" which is the part that matters, and which they have insufficient evidence to back-up as entirely natural. They're just doing the "If we repeat the same thing over and over again enough times people will believe it's true routine." Meanwhile the scientific trail for the species jump leads straight back to the Wuhan lab.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Long and short is that we still don't know.
We know enough.
But what we do know is that infections appeared before we realized it:
Nothing new in that report. If there is, then it's in details we haven't seen, like whether or not any of the tests reveal a history that doesn't lead back to Wuhan. If the claims that there were cases before the Wuhan outbreak is true, it would strengthen the case that it was a bioweapons test on an unsuspecting public. In which case they'd want that covered-up as much as possible.
When Trump instituted his partial China travel ban, it was way way too late.
Yes, it was too late because Chinese officials let an estimated 5 million people leave Wuhan, many on international flights, knowing they were infected, without alerting other countries ( including Trump ) beforehand. The only way Trump could have shut down travel soon enough, is to have known that infected fliers were leaving Wuhan in January, and then immediatly prevented those planes from landing in the USA, or letting passengers originating from Wuhan into the USA.


At that time there were no known cases in the USA


I know the Trump haters just want it to be all Trump's fault, and I would not have voted for him, but at the same time, could any president be blamed for not shutting down the entire country and declaring a national emergency when there were still only 15 known cases in the USA? Maybe yes, but only in hindsight, unless that is, we ever get to see the actual Intelligence reports and have hearings that clearly prove negligence. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I know the Trump haters just want it to be all Trump's fault, and I would not have voted for him, but at the same time, could any president be blamed for not shutting down the entire country and declaring a national emergency when there were still only 15 known cases in the USA? Maybe yes, but only in hindsight, unless that is, we ever get to see the actual Intelligence reports and have hearings that clearly prove negligence. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.
Trump knew weeks before there were only 15 cases that a pandemic might occur. His daily briefings — which he never reads — warned him about the problems.

In early 2017, Obama's team provided Trump's team guidelines on dealing with disasters such as terrorist acts and pandemics. It included a large document spelling out the recommendations. Trump ignored all this and pretended it was nothing.

The more we learn about what happened during January and February, the more it's obvious that Trump didn't want to hear it. And when it was impossible to hide the extent of the disaster, he wa slow to use the tools the government had to hep expand production of masks, ventilators and other protective gear.

Trump still says that it was all Obama's fault, even though Trump was President when the virus outbreak occurred. Pathetic.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Trump knew weeks before there were only 15 cases that a pandemic might occur. His daily briefings — which he never reads — warned him about the problems.

In early 2017, Obama's team provided Trump's team guidelines on dealing with disasters such as terrorist acts and pandemics. It included a large document spelling out the recommendations. Trump ignored all this and pretended it was nothing.

The more we learn about what happened during January and February, the more it's obvious that Trump didn't want to hear it. And when it was impossible to hide the extent of the disaster, he wa slow to use the tools the government had to hep expand production of masks, ventilators and other protective gear.

Trump still says that it was all Obama's fault, even though Trump was President when the virus outbreak occurred. Pathetic.
I'm not sure how many times we need to go around in a circle on this. There's no doubt that Trump deflects blame, but just because he deflects it onto China doesn't mean it isn't true that China is primarily to blame, or that damage control against that blame includes false claims of racism and debunking.

So in the clip below, Trump haters aren't likely to see how the reporter very intentionally sets Trump up for such a deflection onto China in order to make him ( and by extension any blame on China ) look racist. People need to look beyond their dislike for Trump to see what else is really going on. Whether or not Trump is or isn't racist is totally beside the point.

 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Sorry, Randall. But I saw the exchange. She set him up for nothing. Trump picked on her because she is a Chinese-American woman, who emigrated here when she was 3 and is a US citizen. He used her heritage as an excuse to rant about China.

The problem is that you can't ask real questions of Trump before he freaks out, and he is especially nasty towards women of color. Check the archives.

And look how the coward-in-chief runs away when people ask him reasonable questions he can't answer. That's why he favors Fox News and other outlets that are devoted to his interests.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And, as I said earlier, the Obama administration attempted to prepare the incoming Trump administration, in early 2017, for such disasters as pandemic attacks. But Trump and McConnell continue to lie about it.

So:

 


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