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COVID-19 News



Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Lol, c'mon man, are you really asserting that seatbelts do not in fact save lives?

If so, I'd like to see that data set and logic. You're on the wrong side of reason here.
That's my whole point. The "data set" for those who walk away from accidents without wearing a seatbelt and not needing medical care never gets entered into the calculations. So the math that seatbelts save more lives cannot be run. It's based entirely on an assumption. That my friend is a mathematical fact. Without the missing data set, the assertion means nothing.
The thing I do get testy about however is this isn't abstract. Real people are really dying here, for reasons that are mostly stupid. And that's where it goes from being an abstract dialectic to being something that people should no longer fool around with.
I agree for the same reasons. We're both looking at our viewpoint being one that could hypothetically save millions of lives.
There's a time for everything, and the time for inspiring false debates about vaccinations is not now. Let's get people safe and then have that debate, especially given the math is quite clear here. Vaccines are safe by almost any definition of save. Covid is dangerous by almost any definition of dangerous.
If you want to be pro vaccine and encourage people to get it, that's your call. I look at it differently. I think a lot of people are perfectly "safe" without it, and that certain authorities are putting them more at risk by denying them things like, work, employment, and education.
So go get vaccinated and then let's debate getting the next flu shot or whatever.
Not a chance. I have my reasons. Not sure if you actually read them previously in the thread. My choice is to avoid both the disease and the vaccine. If we compare it to the seatbelt rationale, I'm a lone driver on a really well maintained road where accidents are very few and there's relatively little traffic, and even if I do get in an accident, the likelihood of serious injury is minimal. In fact, I'm probably at more risk of a car accident happening than getting COVID.

However, if I lived in a red-zone and shared a house with two families who were all healthcare or personal care workers, I might be more inclined to put on my seatbelt. I believe people need to make choices that they feel are right for them in their individual circumstances rather than taking the shotgun approach. So in my situation, trading virtually zero risk for certain risk that ranges from minor to deadly is in my way of thinking just plain stupid.

Plus I'm probably more well informed about my reasons than anyone else you know. I'm not "anti science". I've read the clinical trials, monitored the VAERS database, watched dozens of good pro and con vids, read dozens of medical papers, and numerous everyday news articles from a variety of sources both pro and con, and I've made my personal choice based on that. Others probably make their choices on less rational grounds that you and I would agree wouldn't weigh in their favor.

But bottom line ( and I've said this before ): Even if a person's reasons make no sense, and the vaccine was the elixir of life and the cure to every disease known to mankind, it should be ( IMO ) every person's right to decide what gets injected into their bodies, not the government's, and there should be no discrimination against them for their choice. Have an opinion ( sure ). Deny them travel, work, and education? That's a whole other story.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
And that's where I will in fact get angry.
Well let's take a breather then and come back at this later.
It is your choice, but it is not a contentious issue. At all. It's a totally invented contention that is killing people in service of political power.
We could both make that claim and back it with different viewpoints.
There is zero evidence for the vaccines not being safe.
That's sheer propaganda. Now the anger is clouding your judgement. The fact is that given the data so far, vaccinations are statistically speaking, low risk for most people, with a range of more serious side-effects ( including death ) depending on factors that have yet to be entirely understood.
If you get on an airplane, you're doing something more dangerous than getting a covid shot.
I don't fly either.
I love you man, but what you're saying simply is not the case.
That is a proclamation rather than an argument.

My logic on the math for seatbelts is perfectly sound. It may be the case that fewer people are dying than otherwise in car accidents, but without the numbers for "otherwise", we cannot know for sure that seatbelts have anything to do with it. That's simply a mathematical fact. When you're prepared to agree to that much, then I know you're getting your rational mind back on track.
  1. X number of people who are wearing seatbelts get into car wrecks and are entered into seatbelt injury stats.
  2. An unknown number of people not wearing seatbelts get into car wrecks, are not injured, and are not entered into seatbelt injury stats.
  3. Calculate the ratio of people who were saved from injury by seatbelts compared to those for which it made no difference.
You can't do it without the missing variable. So the statistical argument means nothing.
 
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Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Our province is lifting virtually all COVID protocols here soon, including mandatory self-isolation for COVID positive cases. IMO it’s about time the light finally went on for them. They’ve admitted they’re never going to eradicate Covid with prolonged restrictions, and we all just have to get on with the business of living and dealing with it in stride.

 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
The current Delta variant is infecting more and more people under 18:

That's not good news. I and others more qualified than me could suggest that the "flatten the curve" strategy is primarily what gave the variant time to mutate. But that assumes it is a mutation and not another introduction by some shady bioweapons lab someplace. Whatever the case, the one consistent pattern of the pandemic is to begin with heightened fear backed by "If it bleeds it leads" stories that later turn out to be exaggerations based on relatively small sample sizes. Both sides ( those who downplay and those who are alarmist ) are both guilty, and the article you posted is a near perfect example.

I presently remain unchanged in my views since I went back to thinking the lab-based theory is the most likely, and that the the actual ( as opposed to misrepresented ) recommendations of the GBD, in concert with early intervention treatment and prevention would have been a better approach than lockdowns and other authoritarian measures. But now we're stuck with what we've got because of how it was handled, and people are going to have to accept that life has to go on, and that we have to deal with diseases in-stride.

While we're doing that, I think we also need to be vigilant not to let diseases continue to be used as political weapons against personal rights and freedoms. Some sort of reasonable less sweeping, and more targeted approaches to pandemic management need to be developed, in particular focusing on universal quality healthcare and not just mass vaccinations.

Lastly. What if this isn't all as random as the general population is being led to believe? Do we say nothing and ask no questions because we're too afraid that we'll be labeled as "conspiracy theorists" and purveyors of "fake news"? I don't think that would be fair. We still don't know how this pandemic really got started, but if it was with some CCP lab, and it is part of their plan to destabilize the West, how do we know that the variant isn't phase two instead of just a mutation? The fact is: We don't.
 
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Randall

J. Randall Murphy
New Variants Keep Materializing Along With More Vaccine Propaganda


FACT CHECK:

CLAIM: "Despite its multiple mutations, there’s early evidence that yes, vaccines likely protect you from getting infected by lambda."

TRUTH: Vaccines don't protect anyone from "getting infected". Given how the science of vaccines works, there can be no "early evidence" to support the idea that any vaccine can stop a person from being infected. It's total B.S. Don't fall for it. Vaccines don't do anything until after a person is infected because they can't. The invader infects the host. Then ( and only then ), can the immune system do anything with it. By the time the invader is detected, it may have already done some replicating, and the infected person can be capable of transmitting it, perhaps even without knowing it. Vaccines can only prevent infection indirectly, by reducing the length and seriousness of infection.

This information is increasingly had to find and appears to be being arbitrarily discouraged by the search engines like other stories that aren't part of the official narrative. After several searches and several pages of results:

 
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Randall

J. Randall Murphy

Growing Discrimination Against Perfectly Healthy Unvaccinated People —


Study Shows That 44% Of Employees Would Quit If Ordered To Get Vaccinated​

"A study from Qualtrics asked people what they’d do if their employer mandated getting vaccinated. The results clearly show the chasm between Americans. About 44% of workers said that they would consider leaving their jobs if they were forced to get their shots ... "​

Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for all employees returning to offices​


 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
They mandate vaccinations for kids going to school in the U.S., and we rarely see this crap.

Let them quit.
Let them quit? I really hope you're not serious.

Mandating vaccines under the threat of withholding education, transportation, and employment is discrimination by the pharmaceutically enhanced against normal healthy people. The arguments about the benefits or risks is entirely irrelevant to that fact. Pharmaceutically enhanced people are now being given preferential social status, and what's worse is that those who go along with that BS want legal protection for it.

The unvaccinated are now the new blacks – the great unwashed "anti-science" third-class citizens whose personal rights and freedoms don't matter – who can't ride on the bus or go to school or workplace. The blacks often had to use their own separate washrooms, but at least they could go to work. The unvaccinated can't even do that now in some places.

And let's not be quite so hasty about dismissing the RFID chip theory. The RFID may not be in the vaccine itself, but separate RFID chips for humans that carry their medical data do exist, and it's only a very small step from vaccine passports to encoding a vaccine passport onto a medical RFID chip. People need to wake-up and see what's happening here. Employment, education, essential services, travel, are now all being withheld in a growing number of places from perfectly healthy normal people unless they comply. All while legitimate opposition to it is being censored or demonized.

Are You Ready for a Medical RFID Implant? - The Atlantic

 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Actually the U.S. Supreme Court has accepted the concept of mandating vaccines. My son had be vaccinated before he could attend school. He survived. Other than religious and medical exemptions, that's the way it is here in this country, and has been for decades. With over 95% of the people filling up hospital beds with COVID-19 being unvaccinated, I have no sympathy with your points. Listen to some interviews with overworked medical workers and how, if more people were vaccinated, only a small number of "breakthrough" infections would occur, and more people could go about their business masked or otherwise.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Actually the U.S. Supreme Court has accepted the concept of mandating vaccines. My son had be vaccinated before he could attend school. He survived. Other than religious and medical exemptions, that's the way it is here in this country, and has been for decades. With over 95% of the people filling up hospital beds with COVID-19 being unvaccinated, I have no sympathy with your points. Listen to some interviews with overworked medical workers and how, if more people were vaccinated, only a small number of "breakthrough" infections would occur, and more people could go about their business masked or otherwise.
So what? You're not getting it.
  • FACT – Perfectly healthy normal unvaccinated people do not cause COVID – Show me just ONE.
  • FACT – Perfectly healthy normal unvaccinated people are themselves not hospitalized.
  • FACT – Vaccinated people can still get and transmit COVID. They just don't get as ill — IF IT WORKS.
  • FACT – MANY people have had very serious side-effects from the vaccine and SOME have died.
  • FACT – Perfectly healthy normal unvaccinated people are less burden on the healthcare system and its workers ( not more ).
  • FACT – Assuming a perfectly healthy unvaccinated person will end-up in a hospital is prejudicial.
  • FACT – Having to deal with sick people doesn't justify discrimination against healthy people.
Other Questions
  • How many people who were vaccinated had to utilize a healthcare service – ALL OF THEM ( if not just to get the vaccine ).
  • How many ( not the percentage ) – How many people have had to see a doctor because of vaccine side effects – LOTS
  • How many healthy unvaccinated people have had to see a doctor because of vaccine side effects – NONE.
  • How much has the vaccination program cost – Hundreds of BILLIONS – And Biden wants more.
    How many lives could be saved if that money was put to other life-saving and enhancing programs
    while using alternatives to combat COVID – alternatives that were demonized and since proven scientifically credible?

— Normal healthy unvaccinated people aren't the cause of the problem — Taking action against them is no more justifiable than taking action against non-criminals because they might "spread crime". Just because 95% of the people in jails committed some crime doesn't justify blaming all the people who didn't. What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty."? Do we all have to have a card or a tattoo or an implant that says we're not criminals in order to function in society? Grant it – it has been getting worse, but does that excuse it? Do we really want that to be "The new normal" ?

@Gene Steinberg — There is so much BS in the official narrative along with serious infringements on human rights and freedoms, but it sounds like you've bought it hook. line, and sinker without applying sufficient critical thinking. You just see an overworked, underfunded, badly managed healthcare system, and blame that on perfectly normal healthy people who don't want a pharmaceutical injection – It's glib – and that's being polite about it.

"Let them quit." — Gene Steinberg :rolleyes:


Google has about 135,000 full time staff, so you're fine with coercing over 50,000 people at one company alone. What kind of person does that? And that doesn't even begin to touch the rest of the big companies and educational institutions. We are not on the same side of the fence here at all – not sure whether I want to be a part of this anymore.

RFID Medical Implants – It's Already Happening for Monitoring COVID Info

"MORE than 4,000 people have already had the high-tech chips, about the size of a grain of rice, inserted into their hands with the pioneers predicting millions will soon join them as they hope to take it global. Using the implants makes cash and credit cards redundant and massively reduces the risk of transmitted infections by the coronavirus."​

 
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Randall

J. Randall Murphy
About Germaphobia

"Concern for germs becomes unhealthy when the amount of distress it causes outweighs the distress it prevents.
There is only so much you can do to avoid germs."
So the "amount of distress" over this "concern for germs" has now destroyed the livelihoods of tens of millions of people, led to demonizing and discriminating against anyone who objects, put the world trillions of dollars into the red, increased global poverty dramatically, from which millions more otherwise healthy people will suffer and die, screwed-up people's educations, pitted citizen against citizen under threat of police enforced fines and jail, compromised human rights and freedoms across the globe, and increased suicides, all while coercing entire populations into taking pharmaceutical injections by depriving them of work, education, and the freedom to travel unless they comply — So just one question —

Where is the distress all that
prevented — Anyone ?

How many of these symptoms have you've seen associated with the pandemic?


"For millions of people, the coronavirus outbreak is amplifying their pre-existing fears of germs, says Mark Mayfield, a board-certified counselor and founder and CEO of Mayfield Counseling Centers in Colorado Springs, Colorado."​
This "amplifying" of "pre-existing fears" has pushed countless borderline cases over the edge where they push their phobia on perfectly normal healthy people through their "measures" and "restrictions" and "protocols". Now it's not just a few anomalous "Howard Hughes" or "Howie Mandel" type cases. It's corporate and governmental germaphobes with the power to seriously screw-up society while remaining relatively insulated in their ivory towers.

Coping With Germaphobia During the Coronavirus Crisis

The coronavirus crisis "definitely exacerbates the fear germaphobes have about getting sick, and it escalates their isolation, anxiety and depression," Mayfield says.
 
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Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Hate To Say I Told You So

Remember way back when they were introducing the mRNA vaccines that at first I was all for them, and then I flipped positions after it looked like the science meant it could induce Long Hauler's Syndrome? Well guess what. Now it looks exactly like that's what happens – and it's now been scientifically proven. But, "Don't worry — It's treatable" says Dr. Patterson. Well isn't that just great news in light of the incoming vaccination laws? How much further will this go?



Notice he mentions the benefits of Ivermectin ( the once demonized early treatment drug ) and then confirms how the vaccines are causing Long Haulers. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Yet mandatory vaccination laws and/or corporate policies are set to come into effect and are already in effect in a growing number of places.
 
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henris42

Paranormal Maven
  • FACT – MANY people have had very serious side-effects from the vaccine and SOME have died.
OK, for this I want actual facts, not Youtube videos. Show me actual peer-reviewed research.

One of my friends did get little fever both times of Pfizer, that is the roughest so far. I got zero aftereffect from the second one. I have hard time believing anti-vaxx BS.

One big thing what people are missing, is that this is biggest vaccination project ever, in very short period. Polio, smallpox etc took decades to go through the population, and back then they did not much care side-effects, although they had used over 10 years to develop the vaccine.
I recall when we had a polio vaccine (mandatory!) at about 9 yrs old, some did get side effects like fever. There was zero public outcry, everyone understood it was for the common good.

Now, lets be scared, its the GOVERMENT! ..and forget that the vaccines are developed in the private enterprise, by well-known very smart people, who actually made good money from it.

Its not the 50's or even 70's anymore.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
And the fact is that very few people, compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of people who have had the vaccines in various countries, have had serious side effects. Have some died? I suppose. But remember that people who receive those shots may have other conditions that might make them vulnerable to the effects of a vaccine. It's why people with serious medical conditions should always ask their doctors before receiving a dose. It's called common sense.

Even then, consider the hundreds of thousands — or perhaps millions — of people who have not died or become seriously ill because they had these vaccines. All those lives saved. Then consider the fact that over 95% of those hospitalized with COVID-19 in the U.S. are unvaccinated.

If you consider the numbers alone, almost everyone is better off with the vaccine. Again, with the condition above, that serious illness might present a problem.
 

henris42

Paranormal Maven
Indeed. In the big picture, especially the "experimental" mRNA vaccines are extremely safe.

For the technically oriented, its the lipid containing the vaccine mRNA that causes the symptoms. Not the vaccine itself. The vaccine developers had to choose a widely available, well tolerated lipid. That is not 100% certain stuff yet.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
  • FACT – MANY people have had very serious side-effects from the vaccine and SOME have died.
OK, for this I want actual facts, not Youtube videos. Show me actual peer-reviewed research.

One of my friends did get little fever both times of Pfizer, that is the roughest so far. I got zero aftereffect from the second one. I have hard time believing anti-vaxx BS.

One big thing what people are missing, is that this is biggest vaccination project ever, in very short period. Polio, smallpox etc took decades to go through the population, and back then they did not much care side-effects, although they had used over 10 years to develop the vaccine.
I recall when we had a polio vaccine (mandatory!) at about 9 yrs old, some did get side effects like fever. There was zero public outcry, everyone understood it was for the common good.

Now, lets be scared, its the GOVERMENT! ..and forget that the vaccines are developed in the private enterprise, by well-known very smart people, who actually made good money from it.

Its not the 50's or even 70's anymore.
The Pfizer vaccine, for example. The company didn't take NIH funds from the U.S., although Moderna did. But lots of drugs developed in this country rely on government funding for some of their research, but they still gouge people claiming high development costs. In the case of the vaccines, the government did buy hundreds and hundreds of millions of doses with taxpayer money, which is why they are free.
 

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