cottonzway
I was saying boo-urns
Fantastic episode! Of course all of these stories need to be taken with a grain of salt, but it is interesting to learn about another cultures interactions with the paranormal.
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Clifford Mahooty September 20
- Thread starter Angel of Ioren
- Start date
P
pixelsmith
Guest
I liked it too but as Cotton said, take it with a grain of salt or maybe a heaping full "peace" pipe.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
I agree with both Pixelsmith and Cottonzway - really interesting episode. It still drove me a little nuts to hear some of the stuff he was saying, but I was entertained and at the end of the day that's why I listen to the Paracast.
Capnkumquat
Skilled Investigator
While much of the show seemed rather alien to my "white" ears, it was refreshing to hear unabashed sincerity, pride in tradition, and interest in bridging gaps without judgment to those who believe differently. I appreciate what the guest was trying to do, it's just hard to break through my want of some sort of "consensus reality"...no matter how hard that might be in topics like the paranormal.
UFO events like "The Battle of LosAngles", or "Shag Harbor", or "Roswell", or "Bentwoods" all have a seed of evidence that we can all agree to, and have some sort of "consensus reality", even if it is tenuous. (Photograph, Radar images, Fighter interception, Hundreds of Sightings, Physical trace evidence, etc). After this evidence comes the speculation of what it means, and how it fits in with the rest of our reality. However, Native American lore is rooted so far in the past, and has such "alien" memes, and such a different "reality" that I can find nothing that suits my "modern need to know".
In essence, it leaves me with more questions than answers and I have to either accept it, or leave it be...as are all thing religious.
UFO events like "The Battle of LosAngles", or "Shag Harbor", or "Roswell", or "Bentwoods" all have a seed of evidence that we can all agree to, and have some sort of "consensus reality", even if it is tenuous. (Photograph, Radar images, Fighter interception, Hundreds of Sightings, Physical trace evidence, etc). After this evidence comes the speculation of what it means, and how it fits in with the rest of our reality. However, Native American lore is rooted so far in the past, and has such "alien" memes, and such a different "reality" that I can find nothing that suits my "modern need to know".
In essence, it leaves me with more questions than answers and I have to either accept it, or leave it be...as are all thing religious.
Beltemps
Paranormal Novice
This show wasn't the usual routine. Clifford mahooty wasn't sharing some research results and wasn't bragging about some weird personal encounters like some other guests before. He gave us an insight in an unknown culture (unknown at least to me) and although at some points it felt like a somewhat dry history lesson I enjoyed it very much. I think Gene and Chris handled him very well and although they maintained a skeptical position they treated him with the respect he deserved.
Good show and a welcome change...
Good show and a welcome change...
xLordSummerislex
Skilled Investigator
There's actually a long running thread on the Fortean Timess message board on Raggedy Ann related strangeness, though nothing with that degree of symbolism, which I agree is extremely fascinating:
Fortean Times Message Board :: View topic - CLASSIC ARCHIVE MERGED: RAGGEDY ANN
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Skimming through this thread I'm seeing comments like "biggum coup" and references to tomahawks, scalping and heaping peace pipes. You guys wanna dress up in red face and dance around patting your mouths going whoop-whoop-whoop too or can the thread proceed without the stereotypical bullshit?
Interesting episode, always good to hear another point of view (although evidently not THAT different to the views of the Hopi and other tribes). Nothing really grabbed me though, this was a campfire episode and it felt like it.
Also Gene, it's pronounced tah-MISS-ka-ming. Like many things first nations/native related it refers to both a people and an area. Several areas in fact.
For those interested: Wikimedia Error
Interesting episode, always good to hear another point of view (although evidently not THAT different to the views of the Hopi and other tribes). Nothing really grabbed me though, this was a campfire episode and it felt like it.
Also Gene, it's pronounced tah-MISS-ka-ming. Like many things first nations/native related it refers to both a people and an area. Several areas in fact.
For those interested: Wikimedia Error
My "stereotypical bullshit" as you called it was done for effect to make a point--not as an insult to the subject or to the guest my good friend Clifford. Some of you almost make me sorry I invited him on the show. I happen to have done quite a bit of research in the realm of Native American myths, legends, traditions and lore and I'm getting pretty tired being a target for those of you serious-as-cancer types lined up in a First Nation's style gauntlet. It ain't easy being a co-host and tiptoeing around all the personalities and opinions on the forum.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Then you failed because your point got lost immediately in the sudden rush of "Wait, he didn't actually type out what I think he did... did he?" reaction.
And I don't want to hear any griping about this being some PC cudgle taking away freedom of expression either. Excercise a little freedom of THOUGHT first and realize it's 2010 and that sort of antiquated crap is supposed to be behind us. If you still think I'm coming on strong about this then let's play the swap game: swap Clifford for an African tribal elder and swap your references to something about cannibalism.
Still feel okay about it?
You lost me, but that's OK... I guess my dry humor needs some watering...
stphrz
Stuffed Tiger
Thanks. I'll have to check it out.
When I was listening to the episode and Clifford mentioned the guy holding the dolls I was like...whoa whoa, back up, did he really say that?
When I was in highschool I did an essay about symbolism and I picked Raggedy Ann. I was aware of the sad connection to smallpox, the vaccine, suffering and death. Not many are aware of this kind of symbolism associated with what is pretty much universally considered an innocent wholesome child's toy.
---------- Post added at 05:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 AM ----------
Also, I've been doing some addtional research on the history of Native Americans and smallpox. In particular the debate about whether the US government's lack of action in setting up a comprehensive vaccination program for Native Americans was essentially genocide. The level of rancor on both sides of the debate is very high with some nasty racism thrown in for good measure.
The more I tug on this little thread the uglier it gets. (Note: I'm not talking at all about what's going on in this Paracast forums thread.)
ascended_master
Skilled Investigator
I for one thought this was a first class episode. The Hopi & Zuni mythology sets the modern UFO phenomena in context & should cause us to reflect on the nature of the mystery. Cultural differences in the observer often seem to colour the perception & nature of the experience. Perhaps the UFO's are not simply space travellers... ?
Mr Mahooty was a superb guest in my view, being well informed, insightful & entertaining too. Thank you for bringing him to the Paracast.
Mr Mahooty was a superb guest in my view, being well informed, insightful & entertaining too. Thank you for bringing him to the Paracast.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
whatever dude. big deal. get over your PC self. i have worked side by side with native americans many times and always got along just fine with them. believe me, they make similar remarks in jest about us white men.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
The same could be said about you buddy
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
The same could be said about you buddy
Um, what? No see it couldn't, I wasn't banned.
Mods around here must be softies. Back when I modded a board when we banned people they were gone.
Look, I get it. The idea is to make some money on this endeavor and there's nothing wrong with that, but the ad frequency makes the show all but unlistenable. I sincerely hope Gene and company are successful and make all sorts of money, but I'm finding it difficult to muster up the intestinal fortitude to wade through all the survivalist and scaremonger ads for two hours every week to get to the increasingly thin entertainment value. The guest quality has taken a distinct nosedive and my tolerance for third-rate storytelling with absolutely no objective evidence is wearing thin. David Biedny swallowed way too much paranormal claptrap but at least he had the balls to occasionally challenge the obvious loonies and his opinionated rants were entertaining radio. The current co-host teams have not gelled for me and to the extent that they are skeptical at all, they are way too subtle about it to be considered entertaining.
As for the current crop of advertisers, you don't have to be paranoid to respond to their sales pitches, but it helps. They were interesting in a humorous sort of way at first, but their entertainment value has not stood up well to repeated airings. That there are still shysters trying to play on fears of fluoridated water is just plain irritating.
I'm still a listener, but just barely. I miss the good old days and wish Gene would win the lottery or something and reboot the show in hobby mode. Much more fun.
As for the current crop of advertisers, you don't have to be paranoid to respond to their sales pitches, but it helps. They were interesting in a humorous sort of way at first, but their entertainment value has not stood up well to repeated airings. That there are still shysters trying to play on fears of fluoridated water is just plain irritating.
I'm still a listener, but just barely. I miss the good old days and wish Gene would win the lottery or something and reboot the show in hobby mode. Much more fun.
The show was never a hobby. Few people are so well heeled that they can do that.
As to the ads, the solution is Fast Forward. We run no more ads than any other networked radio show in the U.S.
Thanks for listening.
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
Halo:Reach is great aside from the very short length of the campaign. But short campaigns seems to be the theme of shooters nowadays. Seriously, aside from the length problem what shooter on a console is more fun?