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Can't believe I'm saying this but:

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
Why not invite a skeptic and let some of the posters with abductions experiences submit questions for them. Susan Clancy comes to mind. I don't think James Randi would do it and I think he's in ill health these days but somebody from that "side" might be interesting to "barrage" with questions. I'm not a big fan of most skeptics since I think they add little more than "NO,nononononononononNO to most paranormal subjects. But, the ufo and abduction field seems to be one big circle..uhhh....one big merry go round with guest lately so maybe a skeptic and a host that is skeptical of skeptics would be a good show. Just a thought. 8)
 
One debunker that does not annoy me too much is James Oberg. I don't agree with some of the things he says but at least he tends to be polite about it.
 
Why not invite a skeptic and let some of the posters with abductions experiences submit questions for them. Susan Clancy comes to mind.

Susan Clancy is an idiot. She couldn't even get an academic post anywhere in the US, and ended up working in Mexico. She proceeds from ideology, then prunes and trims her selected data to fit her pre-decided conclusions: basically, the result is worthless shit.
 
I should have asked some of the skeptics as well as some of the other folks who have abduction expereinces who would be a good guest. So, I'll just kind of back off and read the names all of you come up with. I do think it could be a good show. The thing is some of the folks here who have expereinces are not gonna simply let the skeptic get away with "swamp gas" and "Sleep Paralasis, and mass hysteria." So, I think it would be a challenge to the skeptic to wade into a crowd that doesn't sing from the same hymnal they do. It would be a challenge for me to hear an honest back and forth. Since I am not that well versed in the subject matter I have only heard skeptics talking to skeptics and believers talking to believers and everybody trying to talk over each other on Larry King type shows. :)
 
All you need to do is ask - there are so many!

Hiya Angel. There are a lot of skeptics who might enjoy an interview, but there aren't many with a knowledge of the alien abduction experience or negative sides of hypnotic regression. There's Elke Garaerts who researched child abuse claims in hypnotic regression. Daniele Fabio Zullino, Richard McNally and Chris Huntley have also released interesting papers on the abduction and regression subjects.

Within ufology, guys like Randle and Vallee are not fans of abduction research (as we know it) and others seem to steer clear of it altogether for one reason or other. I think the consensus amongst the guys I see as skeptical and credible (Kev Randle, Jerry Clark and others) don't rule out the phenomena, but fall short of supporting the regression researchers.

Whatever, it's a good idea to bring in debunkers and uber-skeptics to put their side as long as they are informed on the topics. Dunning and Oberg at least have a working knowledge of the UFO subject. It's not too long ago that Oberg was a regular poster on the UFO lists. I respect the guy, but he's a veteran pit fighter.
 
Richard McNally...has also released interesting papers on the abduction and regression subjects.

You can't be serious. McNally even makes Clancy look less than completely stupid. He's a complete jerk.

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

...Oberg at least has a working knowledge of the UFO subject.

Yeah, kinda. But he'a a debunker of the hardcore ideological kind, impervious to all evidence which might challenge said personal ideology. I have debated with him (over Leslie Kean's book and the military pilots' accounts contained therein) and he's impossible. He creates straw man arguments, avoids the evidence under discussion and diverts attention to flaky and irrelevant cases of his choosing (Clancy also does this) whilst continuing to recite his stupid debunker-mantra. He even had the gall to suggest that trained professional military pilots were worse eyewitnesses than the average joe in the street, therefore you shouldn't trust anything they say.

I mean, really. What's the point? You may as well debate with a monkey.
 
Well, I've made a request for Brian Dunning to be asked on to the show.

Considering that he's apparently incapable of writing an article more than a page long would he really be able to do a 2 hour interview? :)

Sorry man, couldn't resist. I'm of the opinion that skeptoid is the most hilarious debunking site I've seen. It's like a watering hole for scoffers with attention deficit disorder. Dunning pours over the work of other skeptics and then super-condenses everything down into quick, easily digestible, single page, hit-pieces. Some are on the mark (But most of his targets are easy ones. Only occasionally does he attempt taking on a good case), some are ridiculous (The spirit of Goebbels is likely in mystified awe of his Hill piece). Seriously, it's the Wendy's drive-through version of skepticism.

You mentioned to me in another thread that he did an entry for the Aurora crash because of requests he'd received. I can just imagine how those emails went: "Yo' Bri', could you tell me what to believe about the Aurora crash thing in 1897? I looked it up on the net but the best thing I could find was nearly 3 freakin' pages long! C'mon, I got a life to live here."

The purveyors of that punchline tend to know nothing about the cases being discussed beyond what Dunning chooses to tell them and that's frequently evidenced by the equally hilarious comments to the "articles." And what's better? If reading the very short treatments is somehow too much work for you he'll even read them for you word for word! Now that's convenience, baby. Lol, there's probably more Ritalin consumed by his audience each day than you can fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool with.
 
You can't be serious. McNally even makes Clancy look less than completely stupid. He's a complete jerk.

As it stands lately, Archie, you don't appear to accept any criticism of Hopkins/Jacobs or abduction research. You've endorsed Jacobs' spurious diagnosis of Woods being 'BPD' and further attacked her character in other posts. Carol Rainey's points are discarded because of her motivations as an 'ex.' Ritzman and Vaeni have an 'agenda.' Clancy is incompetent and McNally is a 'complete jerk.' Doesn't leave much to talk about does it?

In my time on these boards, you aren't usually an emotional or 'one-subject,' poster. So what's the story here? What makes you so determined to dismiss questions and critics of Hopkins/Jacobs as mentally ill or stupid? From where I'm sitting, your approach to these questions has had all the dogmatism you accuse Jim Oberg of having and a great deal of his technique.

Now ignoring your suggestive rejection of people you disagree with, the reason I suggested the people I did is because listening to the choir gets boring. Sticking our fingers in our ears won't help either. I'm well aware of Jim's MO and got both barrels from him recently. People like Clancy and McNally have an opinion on the abduction phenomena and, whether I agree with them or not (the data bothers me), they might make interesting guests. I don't agree with a lot of Jim's conclusions, or his assumptions, but I'd listen to them.

Despite your opinion of Vaeni and Ritzman, the episodes with skeptics/scientists as guests have been really interesting. I think Tyder's had a great idea.
 
As it stands lately, Archie, you don't appear to accept any criticism of Hopkins/Jacobs or abduction research. You've endorsed Jacobs' spurious diagnosis of Woods being 'BPD' and further attacked her character in other posts.

Hi Kandinsky

No, Jacobs has never diagnosed "Alice" as having BPD. He has no qualifications to make such a diagnosis. The evidence of her campaign has been shown to six or seven separate psychiatrists, and THEY have all diagnosed her as a slam-dunk, classic BPD case. Reseach the syndrome if you want to understand it.

I have been following this sorry mess since 2008, a couple of years before the pair-of-dopes offered her a platform to trash their hate-figure under an assumed name. Jacobs' work is a major threat to Vaeni's ideology.

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

Carol Rainey's points are discarded because of her motivations as an 'ex.'

I know Carol quite well personally (was last with her in October), and know her motivation behind this hit-piece. Her ridiculous claims will, eventually, be comprehensively debunked. Most of them are outright lies, and can be demonstrated to be so. I don't know if you have any idea how many people who were involved in investigating the cases she talks about are outraged and disgusted by her hit-piece. Just because someone doesn't jump onto an internet chat forum to set the record straight immediately does not mean that action is not being planned, or will not be taken. I am standing well back from it.

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------

What makes you so determined to dismiss questions and critics of Hopkins/Jacobs as mentally ill or stupid?

Because I know them both personally, and know otherwise. If you knew them personally, you'd know too.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

I'm well aware of Jim's MO and got both barrels from him recently. People like Clancy and McNally have an opinion on the abduction phenomena and, whether I agree with them or not (the data bothers me), they might make interesting guests. I don't agree with a lot of Jim's conclusions, or his assumptions, but I'd listen to them.

Agreed. I have dealt with these people personally and just have my own opinion, that's all. Maybe I express it too forcefully from time to time: if so, thanks for pointing it out.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

Despite your opinion of Vaeni and Ritzman, the episodes with skeptics/scientists as guests have been really interesting. I think Tyder's had a great idea.

Sure. I concur. I have absolutely no problem with true skepticism: on the contrary, if you read my posts on these forums you might conclude me to be highly skeptical in attitude. But I know what I know, from personal experience, and I know this thing is real.

However, Oberg is not a skeptic: he's an ideological debunker of the religious-zealot kind. I have dealt with him, and he's impossible. The "research" of Clancy and McNally on the abduction issue is seriously methodologically flawed and so obviously conclusion-led it's laughable. Shame on Harvard University Press for publishing such shallow, incompetent rubbish. It does not even begin to address the data, which are substantial, persistent and compelling. If Gene invites them on the show, and if they agree to be interviewed, well great; but put them up against a genuine researcher like John Carpenter for example and they'll have a tough time indeed.

Peace.
 
You can't be serious. McNally even makes Clancy look less than completely stupid. He's a complete jerk.

I'd rather listen to --Tom-- Clancy.

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 AM ----------

I can't stand listening to "skeptics" who have not been well immersed deeply in ufology. I miss my late friend Karl Pflock. He was super smart, formidably ufological with the-best-of-em, would give any a ufologist a run for his money, as-they-say. This field suffered a --major-- loss in '06.
images
 
I'd rather listen to --Tom-- Clancy.

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 AM ----------

I can't stand listening to "skeptics" who have not been well immersed deeply in ufology. I miss my late friend Karl Pflock. He was super smart, formidably ufological with the-best-of-em, would give any a ufologist a run for his money, as-they-say. This field suffered a --major-- loss in '06.
images

What about the ones that have been interested in UFOs? I used to think that there was something to alien abductions, UFOs , etc. Currently, I don't think there's anything to it beyond people mis-identifying what they are seeing. There's no compelling evidence that makes me think otherwise. Why do I think this way?
 
Ill venture a guess......
humans are action / reaction, reward based systems.
For all of your investment, there has been no payoff, this will often lead to disillusionment.

For what its worth, dont give up, keep asking questions, keep looking up, keep seeking.
 
Here is another one; Dr. Massimo Pigliucci,, Professor of Philosophy at Lehman College and Webmaster of Rationally Speaking, a blog that attracts the usual group of folks that seem to frequent these "skeptical" sites. Piggliucci's most recent book, "Nonsense on Stilts", is a treatise on all things he considers "pseudoscience". He lumps UFO phenomena with Astrology, Aids Denialism, Creationism, as well as hauntings, ESP, remote viewing, etc. I write a blog, usually political, but as I am tired of the endless contentious blathering of all things political, I decided to review Piggliucci's book. I tried, in my backward, hillbilly, semi-educated manner, to point out that Dr. Piggliucci's treatment of the whole UFO issue and his argument that all UFO events will eventually be explained by natural occurring phenomena, is misguided, unsupported, and just plain wrong.
I have been visiting his site for some time and find some sport in enjoining he and his followers in "spirited" debate.
He would be a GREAT guest for Gene and Chris and Tyder; I think your idea is an exceptional one. I would invite all on this site who read these forums to visit Piggliucci's site at Rationally Speaking and if you woul care to comment on my review of his book, I would appreciate it! This blog can be found at The Average American: On Science and UFOs.
Gene and Chris, Piggliucci is fairly well known and I have heard him speak on several podcasts. He is certainly capable of defending his position, but I really think he is just plain wrong in his approach to the UFO issue. Tyder is right. It would be a GREAT show to have a skeptic on again and Dr. Piggliucci might be a good choice!
 
Well, I've made a request for Brian Dunning to be asked on to the show.

I think that this would be an excellent interview. His website shows him to at very least be familiar with the phenomenon and its major cases. I think it would be interesting to see just how versed he is. Is he an informed skeptic or is he a skeptic for skeptics sake? Don't look at it as a battle, look at it as a way to gauge how thorough this well known skeptic actually is. After all, we can all spot a pretender in a few short minutes.

Michael Shermer knows next to nothing about the field, its research, and major cases for instance. That fact becomes blatantly obvious in just a few short minutes of any interview he gives. Of course he is right up front and tells you that UFO's aren't part of his world view so he gives no time or effort to reading the research or major cases.

Others like Magaha are much less forthcoming in regards to their ignorance.

If Dunning is well versed then it would be an awesome perspective to have. If not, I think it would be an interesting revelation.
 
What about the ones that have been interested in UFOs? I used to think that there was something to alien abductions, UFOs , etc. Currently, I don't think there's anything to it beyond people mis-identifying what they are seeing. There's no compelling evidence that makes me think otherwise. Why do I think this way?

You know? that gives me an idea: How about YOU being invited as the skeptic guest in the show?

No, wait: I'm serious.

I've read your comments and you certainly are well versed in this stuff. You would make a much better guest than Oberg or Shostak in a show dealing with the abduction phenomenon —they would inevitably rely to their tired retort of "the distances between star systems" or "why would they bother to come here?" yadda yadda yadda...

What say you? :cool:
 
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