• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Britain's "Iron Lady" Margaret Thatcher dies

Forums New posts
Not many in Ireland will be sad that she has died. She is partly to blame for why the IRA brought they're bombing campaign to the UK mainland and they'll also tried to take her out in 1984

Even the British public has mixed feelings about her.

 
I am kinda ambivalent about Thatcher but one thing she could have been proud of is just the fact that she rose to the top of a male-dominated profession, and stayed at the top for 3 successive election victories, gaining the respect even of her 'enemies' such as the Soviet presidents.
And she was pretty bad-ass when it came to the Falklands war.

On plenty other stuff though she is rightly disliked but in politics, a leader is a figurehead to a degree - in the UK at least it's not like it's a dictatorship or absolute monarchy in which a leader can do whatever they like (like in N. Korea).
 
Thatcher was so 'bad-ass' that she overstayed her welcome and her own Conservative party showed her the door. She also probably ruined it for any other female to become Prime Minister for a long time to come. Her view was the only one that mattered. That always proves to be bad in the long run.
 
I used to be ambivalent about her, but in the last decade i have come to regard her as one of our greatest PrimeMinisters.

Not because she was the first woman PrimeMinister (though that was a historical point), but because she had the courage of her convictions and the tenacity to carry them through - others would say that is a single-minded view or listening to her own voice, but in politics I think you need to have that ultimate authority. Sure you can work on consensus and cross-party harmony or agreements, but at the end the of the day there are going to be tough decisions to be taken and only one person can take them - to abdicate that responsibility is to abdicate the trust put in you by the people. I look at the politicos of today and see how their policies are built on shifting sands and whatever the focus groups score as a palatable policy, they are too easily swayed for their ultimate aims and it comes down to bland policies wrapped in nice presentation for most of them - there are exceptions but they are rarer.

She got the UK back to work in the 80's and taught many of my generation that a strong work ethic will get you far. Yes, she took things away from us that many expected as right, but at that time the State couldn't afford them when people's own wealth was relatively increasing, so it balanced out. She will be reviled in the North because she broke the mining unions and bought poverty to many a community that relied solely on that way of life. But I firmly think it was for the best, that way of life was on the way out and is proven so today with all the EU regs that are killing coal with carbon capture. She, along with her cabinet saw that they needed to make 'UK Plc' a place to do business and encourage foreign investment to bring new skills and jobs to those areas.

As for overstaying her welcome, that makes me chuckle. Almost all of the sitting PrimeMinisters have been ousted either by the ballot box or their own party, so she was no different in this regard. The previous two being examples of this.

I think just by looking at the number of comments both for and against her, you can see what an influence she had on the world as a whole.

A true icon of the twentieth of century, for good or bad will be in the mind of the observer looking back at her life and the people creating the montage programmes and biographies that will follow.
 
I certainly didn't want Thatcher to be my grandmother etc but you don't have to like someone to respect them.
I respected teachers at school who didn't take shit even when I didn't like them.

I always go back to saying, if you ask the sailors, soldiers and airmen who went to the Falklands, came back having suffered greatly, the overwhelming majority have the greatest respect for her because she stood up to a South American military dictator (regardless of the right's and wrong's of both nations claims on the islands) and undertook what was seen widely as a very, very difficult fight to bring such a distance, all by sea.
In my profile pic just there to the left, I am standing at the front of HMS Invincible, literally about 10' from the bit they nicknamed the 'graveyard' cos it was where the body bags were stowed during the conflict. I got shivers sometimes thinking what had taken place on that very spot and yet, ask those who were there and they had the greatest respect for her as a leader, a war leader - and that has not happened with too many of our male PM's!

(by the way I haven't voted since I was 18 cos I think the majority of politicians are self-serving and greedy for fame or office. I think Thatcher was different but I didn't even really like her!)
 
goggsmackay said:
I am kinda ambivalent about Thatcher but one thing she could have been proud of is just the fact that she rose to the top of a male-dominated profession, and stayed at the top for 3 successive election victories, gaining the respect even of her 'enemies' such as the Soviet presidents.
Click to expand...

It's called "Smurfette Syndrome." This refers to when one token female is allowed to rise among and be part of an entirely male group, usually to serve their interests or the interests of a small but powerful elite. History has been full of women who only cater to men, even kicking the ladders out from other women who are trying to rise in the ranks. It's certainly not rare, nor is it anything of which to be proud. If she did things to actually help women, children, the poor and working classes, she might have been seen as a true female inspiration. I'd guess she did more to hurt working women than any other British politician in several generations. This chart by the Guardian UK shows that poverty and inequality skyrocketed under Thatcher. Looking at her in that context, it's hard for me to say that her being a female was a good thing. I'm more inclined to say she gave female politicians a Very Bad Name while severely crippling our interests.

And she was pretty bad-ass when it came to the Falklands war.
Click to expand...
She kicked a corrupt third-world-country's ass, though this did help Argentina rid itself of an unpopular military government. Ironically, now it's Argentina's top Smurfette who may well cause another conflict in the Falklands and potentially destabilize much of Mercosur.

On plenty other stuff though she is rightly disliked but in politics, a leader is a figurehead to a degree - in the UK at least it's not like it's a dictatorship or absolute monarchy in which a leader can do whatever they like (like in N. Korea).
Click to expand...

Good analogy. Still, Thatcher did help shape both the policy and the tone of British politics at that time. I also suspect that Britain is still recovering from the policies and the political atmosphere shaped by Thatcher.
 
I don't think so, though it's possible.

Thatcher was not only responsible for lots of untimely death, she was also responsible for instilling a callousness and brutal individuality into society. The Ayn Rand of England. Not quite as extreme, but the sensibility was the same, and the results were felt.

The one on the top does set the tone and the middle class is always ready to sell off the common good for short term monetary gain and lower taxes. The voters refuse to acknowledge it until they see that the society their children grows up in is more brutal, than it used to be, and there are more poor people and people struggling.

A few win big, the majority lose a lot. That is the nature of the beast.
 
Blabyboy said:
Exactly, democratically elected 3 times.

I suspect we'll be saying the same when Tony Blair shifts off this mortal coil.
Click to expand...


If she was so hated at the time, how did she win those elections? The numbers disagree - and I state again, I am no pro-Thatcher supporter, but I do acknowledge her standing, which of course is a different thing entirely. I acknowledge the standing of Hitler and Lenin in their respected countries but I'm no fan of them either.
 
Well gentlemen .. I am no Brit ... but I do study history. My father was in GB during WW II until the Normandy invasion. He loved the island and loved the people. His biggest wish prior to his passing was to be able to go back to Great Britian one last time. Alas ... he never made it.

The one thing he never understood is how the Brits "turned" on Churchill after the war was over. Here was a guy with unbelievable forsight before the war ... understanding what Hitler and the Nazi menace was all about when the party in power then was perfectly happy to appease that Nazi bastard. (And don't forget the god-damned Commies in Russia was in the same damn boat. Remember the pact Stalin signed with Hitler?) I guess that could mean the Socialists were happy to appease Hitler until it all went to shit. But not Churchill ... he warned the Brits, hell he warned the entire world ... and suffered the slings and arrows for it. But when the Nazi's invaded Poland Winston stood firm. He (Winston) had it in him to be brutal ... but unless you have ever been in a war it is hard to understand. Churchill called the hard shots ... and at the time the Brits were damned glad he did. When the Nazi's and Japanese were finally defeated then they threw him out. Course they did bring him back in the early 50's for what, one term? Now being American I did not live with Maggie Thatcher running my country but I did see her working with Reagan and between the two of them they brought down the "evil" Soviet Empire. Outspent them by God! Ran them into the damned ground. And I remember the damned anti-nuclear movement in GB and Europe and how they despised the American military because, as we all know now, we had nukes in GB. Well Brothers and Sisters ... had the Soviets pulled the trigger in Europe you would have been damned glad we did. That is one thing that always pissed me off ... as an American ... we spent our treasure and our mostly young men's lives ... numerous times to pull Europe's chestnuts outta the damn fire ... shielded Europe from Commie domination for 50 God Damned Years ... and got spit on. Well Brothers and Sisters ... I could be wrong ... and will admit it ... but the next one just might be with militant Islam and guess who is gonna ended up screaming for help? Europe will come calling again ... bet you a beer.

And as far as Thatcher? Well, I was not a coal miner nor am I a union member ... but as far as I am concerned ... Maggie saved GB from an economic collapse and you should be damn sad to see her go. Look at conditions there as well as conditions here now. Of course you may have a different result and opinion ... and like I said ... I am an American over here ... and you all are over there.

Decker
 
Back
Top