Bill Moore on Paul Bennewitz

[Decker]

In the UFO field there are few incidents more controversial than the AFOSI, Military Intelligence operation directed against Bennewitz which drove him into a mental health facility. Tonight on DMR

Thursday April 14 In the UFO research field there are few stories more controversial than the Bill Moore and Paul Bennewitz incidents.

Bill Moore

Paul Bennewitz

Paul Bennewitz was a civilian scientist living near the Manzano Weapons range that detected some strange radio transmissions and became convinced that they were of an ET nature. Later he became convinced that an actual alien invasion was near. What he stumbled over however was most likely a very covert intelligence operation. He was at first warned off but refused to step aside and then an operation was launched against him by intelligence operatives (and my guest Bill Moore acting as an intelligence insider) and Bennewitz ended up in a mental health facility. In 1989 at the MUFON conference in Las Vegas Moore made a public admission to this fact. In this extremely frank and even provocative interview Moore gives his side of the incident. If you have now or had then an interest in UFOs, intelligence operations or how the Govt. might pop out disinformation … do not miss this show!

Decker

 

[Decker]

This will be the first airing since the original airing of the show on June 11, 1994. I had lost this audio interview and just discovered it. Actually I had been looking for this for a number of years!

Decker

 

[mike]

Ive been haunting the downloads section myself looking for kaku.

 

[Decker]

Don am I confused or are you running the Kaku show on Thursday, tonight?

Lance, there was a major screw-up on the network last night. I tuned in at 10:00 PM last night to listen to the start of the Moore interview and heard Kaku. I immediately called the Program Director who was at a very important meeting along with the President of Cameo Ent. He told me that the show had been all set to go but since he was in this meeting he was not at the studios. They had some new people there and somehow they got this screwed up. Well I was, shall we say, less than fully happy. The President then called me up and told me he would get this fixed I suppose today. It is still very early here so I will hear something more later this AM. Tel est la vie Tel est la guerre.

Decker

 

[Decker]

FRIDAY April 15th. Because of technical problems that were beyond my control, the Moore-Bennewitz show did not air last evening. HOWEVER … it will air tonight at DMR’s regular time.







Immediately following DMR, a new episode of Vicious Vinyl will air! Tonight … The Beatles!

This is a Part 2 retrospective on the music and times of the Beatles. Hope to see you there.

 

[trainedobserver]

Bill Moore's outing of Hynek as contributing to the Bennewitz affair was a really a big deal. It's unsettling to think one of the patron saints of Ufology was actually part of a program that is responsible for so much of the B.S. in what is accepted as the modern UFO myth! I am certain that many other shocking revelations of a similar nature could be made! I am more or less convinced there are more than one or two individuals continuing in the same vein in the UFO community today.

Ha! Greys were invented for the Bennewitz counter-intelligence effort! The information that AFOSI fed Bennewitz and Howe still circulates and percolates and is woven into the fabric of Ufology unduly influencing research and conclusions to this day!

Don, who was the other individual that Bill named off mike that had written several books?

 

[Decker]

Bill Moore's outing of Hynek as contributing to the Bennewitz affair was a really a big deal. It's unsettling to think one of the patron saints of Ufology was actually part of a program that is responsible for so much of the B.S. in what is accepted as the modern UFO myth!
Don, who was the other individual that Bill named off mike that had written several books?

I totally agree Observer about Hynek. Although like in the broadcast, I told Moore that I had suspected Hynek for a long time. He also said that Vallee was a intelligence conduit to the intelligence people. He told me he would provide the documents so I could see them but he never did. And ... he never did begin publishing FOCUS again. He dropped right off the UFO radar.

I just spoke to Greg Bishop the other night. I asked Greg to contact Moore and find out if he would speak to me now. Now all I can do is wait to see if Moore responds. The last I heard, Moore was back in Pennsylvania and I have no contact info for him.

Also, in connection with all this and what Moore claimed in this broadcast ... he was gonna blow the lid off all this business ... I wonder in lieu of what did happen ... Moore disappeared ... was he told to shut his mouth? That is what I really want to ask. Oh, and I do not recall now who he said the other author was. Hell, that was almost, not quite but almost ... 20 years ago.

Decker

 

[Double Nought Spy]

And we believe Moore this time because... ?

 

[trainedobserver]

He also said that Vallee was a intelligence conduit to the intelligence people. He told me he would provide the documents so I could see them but he never did. And ... he never did begin publishing FOCUS again. He dropped right off the UFO radar.

I suspected that was the case. He is practically guilty by long association with Hynek. I think like Moore, Vallee has made connections and entered into relationships with the intelligence community to gain access to information. Again, this is significant and gives more credence to the idea in my mind that the body of knowledge known as UFOlogy, as it is commonly understood, is a poisoned well. We drink from it at our own peril.

 

[trainedobserver]

And we believe Moore this time because... ?

William Moore is entirely believable. What has he been proven to have lied about? Nothing that I know of. Listen to what Greg Bishop has to say about it in this recent .

 

[Decker]

For what it is worth, in all the years I knew Bill Moore, I never discovered he lied about anything. I may have not liked things he did, nor things he might have said but I never knew him to lie.

Decker

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Bill Moore has made a career of making big claims and not backing them up with evidence. To say he has been involved in some shady enterprises is to be polite about it. To hear him accuse someone like Kevin Randle of sloppy and "deceptive" work is disgusting to me, coming from someone like him. How many people here have read Moore and Berlitz's Roswell book? It's full of "fantastic coincidences" and wild claims with little or nothing to back it up. Try reading that book nowadays when the wow factor is nil. I see a lot of people lapping up what Moore puts out because it matches up nicely with their beliefs, which is ironic if you listen to the interview discussed here because Moore berates a lot of people for just that sort of behavior. I happen to agree with a lot of what he said in the interview, but that does not mean he should be taken at his word any more than it does when Linda Howe says something I agree with.

Thanks for posting the interview, Don. That was very interesting. I don't think Moore is evil or some lying scumbag, but I sure don't just accept what he says. He calls out a dead guy, Hynek, for doing just what Moore has done. Has he actually named anyone who is still here to defend himself? More to the point, has he ever produced any evidence to back up those claims? He even responded to a question from a caller with "Because I say so." That's some professionalism there, boy.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

I am as convinced as I think possible (considering the evidence available) that Moore concocted the MJ-12 papers. So I think he lied to you, Don, when he denied it on the show.

That would move him right into the lying scumbag column. As far as I know, the evidence (about the origin of MJ-12, not just Moore's possible authorship) is precious little, but until we have more solid evidence, he cannot honestly be left off the suspect list. While we are talking about evidence, I'd like it if someone more informed than myself could fill us in on what corroboration there is for Moore's version of the Bennewitz train wreck. As I understand it, pretty much everything we "know" came from Moore. I know Bruce Maccabee has written some things about it, but he was not directly involved if I remember correctly. Who else has had anything to say? Doty? Yikes!

It has been some years since I've read about all that stuff so I could be wrong about some of this. Please disabuse me of whatever faulty memories are surfacing here.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

William Moore is entirely believable. What has he been proven to have lied about? Nothing that I know of. Listen to what Greg Bishop has to say about it in this recent .

Thank you for posting this. I'll listen or watch or whatever when I have the time and inclination. I have read Greg's book on the matter and I have recommended it enthusiastically here and elsewhere many times. Of course that does not mean I agree with everything in the book. My point is, really, we have no way of judging it. Greg is a good guy and plenty smart, but of course that does not mean he hasn't been misled.

 

[trainedobserver]

I am as convinced as I think possible (considering the evidence available) that Moore concocted the MJ-12 papers. So I think he lied to you, Don, when he denied it on the show.

I think those were generated by the same folks that supplied Dotey with the story he told L.M.H. but who knows for certain?

Any way you look at Moore his story tells us a great deal about AFSOIs involvement with the UFO myth.

I think Moore and Carrion are telling us about the opportunistic use of the belief in UFOs and stories about them by aspects of the military. I don't think we can ignore that.

---------- Post added at 10:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

Greg is a good guy and plenty smart, but of course that does not mean he hasn't been misled.

To what end?

 

[Decker]

Well Ladies and Gentlemen .. as I am very fond of stating these days, I feel I know less about this topic now ... after well over 20 years of involvement, than when I jumped into the UFO "pond" all those years ago. Back in those days the names that surfaced when speaking about UFOs were names like Moore, Shandera, Hopkins, Friedman, Howe, Maccabee, then in late 87 Lear, etc. I gotta tell you as I moved along I started to become disillusioned and then more and more disillusioned with what was passing as "research". Not to mention some of the above that I, at first, had respect for.

What I found illuminating as I became more involved was that often, not always, but often the level of investigation and research was simply shoddy. Coming from an investigation background I would, in the offer of trying to help someone, point out what I felt were errors or corrections in the process and it didn't take me long to wear out my welcome with certain people. Also, as civilian research is so hap-hazard, not to mention totally underfunded, and most active people today simply do not have a clue ... this will never be solved to anyones satisfaction. Ergo my bail-out. I of course will still speak about this on the radio ... but unlike so many years ago I do not believe this will ever be solved.

Oh yea, do I think there is still an element of high-strangeness or mystery here? Yes I do, what I observed in December of 1966 and again later sticks with me. I could not explain it then nor can I explain it now. What I observed was technological, and I really doubt it was "our" technology. However that does not automatically equate to ET tech., so please ... do not put words in my mouth. Like I said, I know less now than when I started. I guess that is why DMR airs and The Paracast thrives. I suppose we all would like answers.

Decker

 

[Double Nought Spy]

@ trainedobserver

To what end? Well for starters it's not too hard to imagine Moore being more of a participant than he is willing to admit, possibly for some very good or at least understandable reasons. We *are* talking about professional disinformation campaigns here. You don't get to just choose your "side" and accept stories based on how much you like them. What if Bill Moore is just completely full of shit? I know that's not a popular idea around here, but why does everyone just accept his stories? Because he sounds like a good guy? I don't get it. If he kept saying he knew that aliens crashed their flying saucer at Roswell in June of '47, well, I can easily imagine the angry chorus of "Where's this asshole's proof?"

 

[trainedobserver]

In Moore's case, I think he does it because it amuses him and perhaps makes him seem more important (in his own mind).

I just don't get that Lance. Maybe I'm just not cynical enough. So just to be clear, (here, let me put words your mouth, open up) you don't think there is anything to this UFO shit (a catch-all phrase for sure) other than emotionally crippled individuals seeking attention?

 

[Kieran]

I think Moore was right on the money about Hynek personally. Vallee i would need to see the evidence before deciding on that. Interesting also how right he was about Hopkins and Jacobs, knowing what we do know today.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

I think Moore was right on the money about Hynek personally. Vallee i would need to see the evidence before deciding on that. Interesting also how right he was about Hopkins and Jacobs, knowing what we do know today.

So you accept what he said about Hynek without any evidence? Even though he claimed to have evidence but has never produced it? Interesting.