Ashamed.....

[cottonzway]

That is the word that comes to mind when thinking about the whole Mike Vick situation in general. I am ashamed he is even an Eagle to be honest. I know this thread will be riddled with comments like “let it go” and “he has paid his dues” and things like that but I can’t forgive what he did. I am a very forgiving person. No question people make mistakes. Even when those mistakes are so bad that you go to jail for them I feel most people can redeem themselves.

There is a difference between people making mistakes and being a sociopath. Mike Vick is a sociopath. I don’t think that is something that can be cured and think it is just the mental make up of a person. Only a sick degenerate would find any rational thought in murdering innocent dogs in the way Vick did. I am not going to let it go and I am ashamed this guy is with the organization I grew up watching my whole life.

I can go on about the actual “football” reasons as to why I think going with Vick is a bad choice (like this is the worst offensive line since Buddy was in town, that the team is too young and flawed to be a playoff team regardless and that Vick is not likely to be re-signed anyways leaving the Eagles with a very unhappy Kolb and Mike Kafka at QB), but this is not even about that.

I am ashamed at our fanbase for acquiescing to having Vick here in the first place. I think back to 2001 when the Flyers signed convicted rapist and criminal Billy Tibbetts. Flyers fans were outraged at this and Billy only lasted 9 games before giving his outright release. Some people will attribute his poor play in taking dumb penalties, but any Flyers fan will recall the public relations nightmare it caused, that the team reacted to the outrage of their fans, and the Flyers organization unofficially admitted to their mistake of signing him in the first place by cutting him. Score one of the fans. We did the right thing. With Mike Vick, not so much.

Even if I am wrong on the football and somehow the Eagles manage to overcome their offensive line problems, their porous secondary, and are a winning team even to the extent of winning a SB how would you feel with Mike Vick as your QB in doing it? Here is what it will be for me. It will have one of these next to it…

*

---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 AM ----------

I know this is not a big "sports" forum or anything, but I felt like sharing that here.

 

[Ron Collins]

That is the word that comes to mind when thinking about the whole Mike Vick situation in general. I am ashamed he is even an Eagle to be honest. I know this thread will be riddled with comments like “let it go” and “he has paid his dues” and things like that but I can’t forgive what he did. I am a very forgiving person. No question people make mistakes. Even when those mistakes are so bad that you go to jail for them I feel most people can redeem themselves.

There is a difference between people making mistakes and being a sociopath. Mike Vick is a sociopath. I don’t think that is something that can be cured and think it is just the mental make up of a person. Only a sick degenerate would find any rational thought in murdering innocent dogs in the way Vick did. I am not going to let it go and I am ashamed this guy is with the organization I grew up watching my whole life.

I can go on about the actual “football” reasons as to why I think going with Vick is a bad choice (like this is the worst offensive line since Buddy was in town, that the team is too young and flawed to be a playoff team regardless and that Vick is not likely to be re-signed anyways leaving the Eagles with a very unhappy Kolb and Mike Kafka at QB), but this is not even about that.

I am ashamed at our fanbase for acquiescing to having Vick here in the first place. I think back to 2001 when the Flyers signed convicted rapist and criminal Billy Tibbetts. Flyers fans were outraged at this and Billy only lasted 9 games before giving his outright release. Some people will attribute his poor play in taking dumb penalties, but any Flyers fan will recall the public relations nightmare it caused, that the team reacted to the outrage of their fans, and the Flyers organization unofficially admitted to their mistake of signing him in the first place by cutting him. Score one of the fans. We did the right thing. With Mike Vick, not so much.

Even if I am wrong on the football and somehow the Eagles manage to overcome their offensive line problems, their porous secondary, and are a winning team even to the extent of winning a SB how would you feel with Mike Vick as your QB in doing it? Here is what it will be for me. It will have one of these next to it…

*

---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 AM ----------

I know this is not a big "sports" forum or anything, but I felt like sharing that here.

I wouldn't want him on my team either. Come to think of it, there are several people I don't think should be playing.

Ben Roethlesberger
Adam Pacman Jones
Dante Stallworth

Just to name a few.

 

[tyder001]

One problem that I have with Vick is his whole attitude. Didn't he "win" some bogus "team" award last year? Then he talked about what "I have overcome." Really? He now feels that since he tortured animals that "he" overcame by going to jail. Have to agree he seems like a sociopath but of course I can't honestly say since I don't know him and haven't actually talked to him. I thought I was sickening that the Cowboys would sign T.O. after he "danced" on their star. Maybe it's because I'm a college football fan and tradition is so important to me. Maybe that is one reason I like the Packers. They have that "small town" traditional feel to them. At least from afar. I want to see the Tide run out on Bryant Denny and I would love to see the Yanks - Redsox or see the Pack at Lambeau. Sports are how I "escape" for a few hours and recapture my growing up years. Yeah, Michael Vick had a tough time as a kid. I understand he comes from his own background and "place" in society. But, he had money, fame, women and no need to "hurt" anybody or anything. Anyway, sorry for the ramble off point. Good post.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Great post Cotton.

In a word, Vick is disgusting. As someone that loves animals (although I'm more of a cat person), anyone that tortures animals should not be put in a position of being a role model, and being QB of a major NFL team is one of those positions.
He is a sociopath, and as Ron said, the unfortunate thing is that he's not the only person in the NFL that has that trait. There are many deranged people in the world, we just don't cheer for most of them.

 

[Xylo]

One of my good friends adopted a Pit from the Southwestern Virginia area- sweetest dog ever. Seeing this dog and knowing that his destiny could have been the fighting ring...well that burns me up. To know that Vick was involved with the dogfighting crowd, actively promoting and fighting is bad enough. Then to find out that he was involved in the training and destroying of dogs was even worse.

Vick gets no respect from me. None. If I was his offensive line, I'd ease up as much as possible and let him get sacked quite often. I might even trip the bastard.

 

[0hs0]

Yes..it is a shame..because having watched football all my life, and being from Atlanta, he was the most exciting football player I had ever seen. Anyone remember that 40+ yard run for a touchdown in overtime against Minnesota in the playoffs several years ago? That was just one of many heartstoppers. I was just sick and heartbroken when all of those allegations became truth. It's not the same anymore...

 

[pixelsmith]

His genitalia should be covered in bacon grease and exposed to a pack of hungry pit bulls.

 

[trainedobserver]

His genitalia should be covered in bacon grease and exposed to a pack of hungry pit bulls.

Good Grief! Uh, I'm thinking that maybe you're over thinking this a bit. "Punished to the full extent of the law." seems adequate to me. The antics of overpaid, overgrown, high-school jocks who play games for a living shouldn't surprise anyone. Role models? Unless they are involved in charity work off the field they do nothing to contribute to society as a whole other than to provide a temporary amusement for folks who have nothing better to do. You know, like mimes or ventriloquists.

 

[Kieran]

Good Grief! Uh, I'm thinking that maybe you're over thinking this a bit. "Punished to the full extent of the law." seems adequate to me. The antics of overpaid, overgrown, high-school jocks who play games for a living shouldn't surprise anyone. Role models? Unless they are involved in charity work off the field they do nothing to contribute to society as a whole other than to provide a temporary amusement for folks who have nothing better to do. You know, like mimes or ventriloquists.

I've watched a few games of NFL A friend of mine loves it lol I personally don't get why there is so much padding there so kitted out have ye Americans ever watched rugby, Rugby players wear nothing only a official team shirt a pair of shorts socks and boots and they tackle each other head on without all the fancy gear. Some Sportsmen and women are Role Models for Kids, some appreciate the fans and some just don't give a damn, the ones who couldn't give a damn are usually the ones driving the obscene car which tainted out windows flashy wheels and is caught cheating behind his wife's back with a couple of call girl hookers

 

[pixelsmith]

Good Grief! Uh, I'm thinking that maybe you're over thinking this a bit. "Punished to the full extent of the law." seems adequate to me. The antics of overpaid, overgrown, high-school jocks who play games for a living shouldn't surprise anyone. Role models? Unless they are involved in charity work off the field they do nothing to contribute to society as a whole other than to provide a temporary amusement for folks who have nothing better to do. You know, like mimes or ventriloquists.

well... then maybe do what I said but put a Pit Bull on a leash that allows the dog to come within an inch of his junk.

 

[Ron Collins]

I've watched a few games of NFL A friend of mine loves it lol I personally don't get why there is so much padding there so kitted out have ye Americans ever watched rugby, Rugby players wear nothing only a official team shirt a pair of shorts socks and boots and they tackle each other head on without all the fancy gear. Some Sportsmen and women are Role Models for Kids, some appreciate the fans and some just don't give a damn, the ones who couldn't give a damn are usually the ones driving the obscene car which tainted out windows flashy wheels and is caught cheating behind his wife's back with a couple of call girl hookers

You know Kieran, having family from the UK and being a guy that LOVES sports I have heard this argument many times before. Here is the difference. The pads are there to protect the guys getting hit as much as it is to protect the hitter. I have seen plenty of good shots taken in the 6 nations games so I know it can get rough. But you don't have the combination of strength, size, speed, and power that exist in the NFL. Ray Lewis from the Baltimore Ravens can hit you so hard that it can actually stop your heart. And that is with pads. The NFL has actually officially asked him to lighten up his hits for fear that he could seriously injure a player. He is not alone. In fact a quick scan of the NFL combine stats will shock you. There are linemen that weight 280+ running sub 4 second 40 times. (40 yard dash by position)

The muscle some of these guys have is unreal. Larry Allen from the Dallas Cowboys had a 600lb 3 rep max bench press. BJ Raji from the Packers benched 225lbs 53 consecutive times this off season. it is fun to say things like this but you have to understand the sheer speed, power, and violence of the game.

In comparison Brian Habana and Rupeni Caucaunibuca who are known as being two of the faster if not faster players in world rugby have clocked 100m times around 10.2 or 10.3. Habana weighs 207lbs. Caucaunibuca weighs 229lbs. Which means Habana would probably play cornerback and Caucaunibuca would be an outside linebacker or safety. Neither man would be considered the fastest or the biggest at their position if they played in the NFL.

 

[Kieran]

You know Kieran, having family from the UK and being a guy that LOVES sports I have heard this argument many times before. Here is the difference. The pads are there to protect the guys getting hit as much as it is to protect the hitter. I have seen plenty of good shots taken in the 6 nations games so I know it can get rough. But you don't have the combination of strength, size, speed, and power that exist in the NFL. Ray Lewis from the Baltimore Ravens can hit you so hard that it can actually stop your heart. And that is with pads. The NFL has actually officially asked him to lighten up his hits for fear that he could seriously injure a player. He is not alone. In fact a quick scan of the NFL combine stats will shock you. There are linemen that weight 280+ running sub 4 second 40 times. (40 yard dash by position)

The muscle some of these guys have is unreal. Larry Allen from the Dallas Cowboys had a 600lb 3 rep max bench press. BJ Raji from the Packers benched 225lbs 53 consecutive times this off season. it is fun to say things like this but you have to understand the sheer speed, power, and violence of the game.

In comparison Brian Habana and Rupeni Caucaunibuca who are known as being two of the faster if not faster players in world rugby have clocked 100m times around 10.2 or 10.3. Habana weighs 207lbs. Caucaunibuca weighs 229lbs. Which means Habana would probably play cornerback and Caucaunibuca would be an outside linebacker or safety. Neither man would be considered the fastest or the biggest at their position if they played in the NFL.

Thanks Ron. I did a quick search to find out what is the average size of a NFL player and player playing professional Rugby and compare the too. Front row (props and Hookers) are usually 5'8 in height and above and they weight 220 pounds on average Second row (locks) are usually taller then front row players and usually have stronger upper body strength than players playing in the front row. Players playing in the second row on average their height is 6'O to 6'6 and the average weight is also 220 pounds

Back Row Players are the tallest members of a rugby team but on average they weight less around 210 pounds.

The Average weight of a NFL player is 248 pounds so You are correct there is a difference in weight but not by much statically speaking. Rugby players are requested not to exceed a certain weight limit because their endurance will be compromised, Rugby players try to get a balance between an increase in strength and an increase in weight. We're in the NFL some of the players playing are in all purposes clinically obese, any player who steps on the field weighing 280 to 300 pounds Ron is risking a heart attack. But I take your point some Players playing in the NFL are bigger and the risk of injury is greater in the NFL then with Rugby.