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are vaccines safe?

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are vaccines safe?

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .
You could have watched VAXXED by now. If you can't afford 4 bucks I might understand.


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mike said:
And i know a Nurse here in Australia who said, anyone who'd ever seen a baby with whooping cough would never knock the vaccination against it again.

Days before Riley's death, Ms Hughes issued an impassioned plea to other families to consider vaccinating their children against the disease.

"If you haven't been immunised against whooping cough [pertussis], please consider getting it done," she wrote.

"Heartbreaking to watch four-week-old Riley struggle with it at PMH. Please keep him in your thoughts."


Australian Medical Association (AMA) WA president Michael Gannon said the case was a tragic reminder that people needed to get vaccinated against potentially fatal infections.

The best way to protect newborn babies is for older brothers and sisters, mother and fathers and anyone else in the community who might come into contact with them to be vaccinated."

Dr Gannon said it was a tragic reminder of how important it was that "we never take our eye of the ball and get lazy with vaccinations".

"This is a preventable infection, it is preventable with a very safe, proven vaccine - there is no reason not to have it," he said.

"Unfortunately, we need tragic cases like this to remind us how lethal these infections are.

"Most people have never seen polio, most people have never seen tetanus ... these were realities not so long ago."

'Forever in our hearts': Family hope baby's whooping cough death not in vain

Click to expand...




Well i can understand from both sides here,i had whooping cough as baby, we tired to bring a lot of western medicine into Afghan and Iraq especially to the bedouins and the farmers that lived way out in the desert, they would have none of what we tried to give them, and they live fine, well by there standards anyway.

Im not saying that "you should not vaccinate" but what I'm saying is there is a possibility that some kids can have severe reactions, I'm not just talking about the MMR but the "human papilloma virus" has made a lot of teenagers have severe reactions to the immunisation. now saying that there could be a million combinations for the reaction of certain individuals. but it could also could be the same for gulf war vets who had the "gulf war syndrome" which was a real travesty all this JABS in such a short space of time combined with Depleted Uranium and also the NAP's (Nerve Agent Pre-Treatment Set) could have had a massive input and Countered the Troops immune system.
 
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It took nearly six months but the General Medical Council (GMC) in the U.K. has pulled Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s license to practice medicine in the United Kingdom.

Wakefield is the researcher who nearly single-handedly fueled parental concerns about the link between vaccines and autism. In 1998, he published a paper in the medical journal Lancet describing eight children who showed signs of autism within days of being inoculated for measles, mumps and rubella. A gastroenterologist by training, Wakefield went on in further studies to suggest that the virus from the vaccine was leading to inflammation in the youngsters’ guts that then impeded normal brain development.

Further investigations by other researchers in the decades since have failed to confirm his claims, and in January, the GMC ruled that Wakefield had acted “dishonestly and irresponsibly” in conducting the experiments that led to the publication of the paper. According to the BBC, among his alleged acts of misconduct were conducting those studies without ethical approval of the hospital at which he practiced, and paying children at his son’s birthday party for blood samples. He also served as a paid consultant to attorneys of parents who believed their children had been harmed by vaccines.

In February, editors of the Lancet retracted Wakefield’s controversial paper, telling the Guardian “It was utterly clear, without any ambiguity at all, that the statements in the paper were utterly false.”

Defending his career on the Today show on Monday, Wakefield, now in the U.S., vowed to appeal the decision and maintained that “there are millions of children out there suffering, and the fact [is] that the vaccines cause autism.” Without a license to practice medicine, and the growing evidence to the contrary, it’s going to harder for him to prove that claim.

Doctor behind vaccine-autism link loses license | TIME.com

Do you have any idea how little credibility you have when you claim we are all wrong when Wakefield himself said on TV “there are millions of children out there suffering, and the fact [is] that the vaccines cause autism.”
 
In 1998, Andrew Wakefield and 12 of his colleagues[1] published a case series in the Lancet, which suggested that the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may predispose to behavioral regression and pervasive developmental disorder in children. Despite the small sample size (n=12), the uncontrolled design, and the speculative nature of the conclusions, the paper received wide publicity, and MMR vaccination rates began to drop because parents were concerned about the risk of autism after vaccination.[2]

Almost immediately afterward, epidemiological studies were conducted and published, refuting the posited link between MMR vaccination and autism.[3,4] The logic that the MMR vaccine may trigger autism was also questioned because a temporal link between the two is almost predestined: both events, by design (MMR vaccine) or definition (autism), occur in early childhood.

The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud
 
marduk said:
Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects



But let's give Pixel the benefit of the doubt, and just lump them in with the allergic reactions.

So that's one in four million. 4 x 10^6.

But it happend with four in four kids. So that's (4 x 10^6)^4. Which is...

One in 2.56 x 10^26. That's 2.56 followed by 26 zeros.

There have only ever been 100 billion humans on the face of the earth. So the odds of that ever happening, if every human were ever vaccinated that has ever lived...

is one in 2.26 x 10^15.

So although I'm very sympathetic to your children's suffering Pixel, I really struggle with attributing it all to vaccinations.

It's so vastly improbable as to require attribution to some other factor. Like environmental, or genetic, or something else. Or a combination of factors that aren't understood.

Anyone feel free to correct my math. Probabilities were never really my thing.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If Pixels conspiracy theory were true that the vaccines were directly the cause of his 4/4 childrens medical issues than we would be seeing billions of people injured in the same way.
But we dont, The vast majority of people who were vaccinated are fine, and we have all but eradicated some really nasty diseases as a result.

I was vaccinated and there is nothing wrong with me, unless you count being bumped up two years in school because i was "gifted", or my Eidetic memory, or the fact that at 16 i became the youngest person in Australia to pass the Hewlett Packard mainframe operators training course.
Ive been tested i am a certified genius, but i dont have aspergers or anything like that.

Indeed Wakefield's own now famously retracted paper says,

A genetic predisposition to autistic-spectrum disorders is suggested by over-representation in boys and a greater concordance rate in monozygotic than in dizygotic twins.15 In the context of susceptibility to infection, a genetic association with autism, linked to a null allele of the complement (C) 4B gene located in the class III region of the major-histocompatibility complex, has been recorded by Warren and colleagues.

A genetic problem is far more likely the cause of the 4/4 result than a vaccine statistically speaking.

He should also get himself tested for Toxoplasmosis

Autism spectrum disorders may be due to cerebral toxoplasmosis associated with chronic neuroinflammation causing persistent hypercytokinemia that resulted in an increased lipid peroxidation, oxidative stress, and depressed metabolism of endogenous and exogenous substances (PDF Download Available)
 
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Who perpetrated this fraud? There is no doubt that it was Wakefield. Is it possible that he was wrong, but not dishonest: that he was so incompetent that he was unable to fairly describe the project, or to report even one of the 12 children’s cases accurately? No. A great deal of thought and effort must have gone into drafting the paper to achieve the results he wanted: the discrepancies all led in one direction; misreporting was gross. Moreover, although the scale of the GMC’s 217 day hearing precluded additional charges focused directly on the fraud, the panel found him guilty of dishonesty concerning the study’s admissions criteria, its funding by the Legal Aid Board, and his statements about it afterwards.14

Furthermore, Wakefield has been given ample opportunity either to replicate the paper’s findings, or to say he was mistaken. He has declined to do either. He refused to join 10 of his coauthors in retracting the paper’s interpretation in 2004,15 and has repeatedly denied doing anything wrong at all. Instead, although now disgraced and stripped of his clinical and academic credentials, he continues to push his views.16

There are hard lessons for many in this highly damaging saga. Firstly, for the coauthors. The GMC panel was clear that it was Wakefield alone who wrote the final version of the paper. His coauthors seem to have been unaware of what he was doing under the cover of their names and reputations. As the GMC panel heard, they did not even know which child was which in the paper’s patient anonymised text and tables.

Wakefield’s article linking MMR vaccine and autism was fraudulent | The BMJ

Steven Miles, a professor of medicine and bioethics at the University of Minnesota, said the Somali community deserves careful research on autism. He calls Andrew Wakefield a researcher with a track record of fraud. Miles said Wakefield isn't the way to address the Somali community's needs.

"He's just not trustworthy," Miles said. "And it does not surprise me that he would seek out a population which is unsophisticated and desperate."

Controversial autism researcher tells local Somalis disease is solvable
 
mike said:
Exactly. If Pixels conspiracy theory were true that the vaccines were directly the cause of his 4/4 childrens medical issues than we would be seeing billions of people injured in the same way.
But we dont, The vast majority of people who were vaccinated are fine, and we have all but eradicated some really nasty diseases as a result.

I was vaccinated and there is nothing wrong with me, unless you count being bumped up two years in school because i was "gifted", or my Eidetic memory, or the fact that at 16 i became the youngest person in Australia to pass the Hewlett Packard mainframe operators training course.
Ive been tested i am a certified genius, but i dont have aspergers or anything like that.

Indeed Wakefield's own now famously retracted paper says,

A genetic predisposition to autistic-spectrum disorders is suggested by over-representation in boys and a greater concordance rate in monozygotic than in dizygotic twins.15 In the context of susceptibility to infection, a genetic association with autism, linked to a null allele of the complement (C) 4B gene located in the class III region of the major-histocompatibility complex, has been recorded by Warren and colleagues.

A genetic problem is far more likely the cause of the 4/4 result than a vaccine statistically speaking.
Click to expand...
I thought of genetics but I believe they were two sets of siblings that were genetically unrelated.
 
And yet neither one of you have read Wakefields paper, or listened to him in his own words explain his paper?
And neither of you listened to a top CDC scientist tell about what they did to cover up the vaccine autism causation study?

What is wrong with you guys?

Those two things would be the first thing to do if you had any intelligence at all. Nothing you post means shit until you do.

Right?



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pixelsmith said:
And yet neither one of you have read Wakefields paper, or listened to him in his own words explain his paper?
And neither of you listened to a top CDC scientist tell about what they did to cover up the vaccine autism causation study?

What is wrong with you guys?

Those two things would be the first thing to do if you had any intelligence at all. Nothing you post means shit until you do.

Right?



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Click to expand...
Funny, my father in law said the same thing about the Hadiths.
 
Take a couple minutes off your high horse and at least listen to that last video. You can hear Dr Thompson admitting the autism cover up.
My god what more do you need?

It is proof you have no clue what you are talking about.
 
Here is the whole conversation from the CDC scientist who did the study.


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pixelsmith said:
Seriously, why wouldn't you check with the sources if the subject FIRST?
You are not intelligent people.
Click to expand...
I don't need to, for much the same reason why I've never read the Hadiths.

I don't need to read a bunch of made up stuff talking about something somebody else said, which has every reason to be made up to drive an agenda and very little evidence of being substantive.

Math is math. Your math is broken. I can say with confidence that any doctor that attributed all four cases with severe reaction to the MMR vaccine (two different vaccines) striking two different genetic familial groups with a twenty year separation - and somehow having identical or similar reactions - as so close to impossible that you might as well call it impossible.

I'm not saying that they were not injured by some other means. For which I sympathize for your family's pain.

It just cannot be for the reasons you state.

The websites/videos/other propaganda you reference have been discredited several times. And yet you persist with your thinking which has an internal consistency of it's own, perhaps gives you a sense of identity, and yet does not correlate with reality.

Much like my father in law, a devout Muslim, who also is a man of faith and deep irrationality. Without his faith, he tells me, he is nothing. He is also a deeply kind and compassionate man, like the person I've heard you to be.

So where do we take that? My father and I yell at each other and then go smoke the hookah until we giggle at each other. What else can be done?
 
marduk said:
Even so, that would be a very rare epidemiology, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure tbh but,

Worldwide, approximately 2 billion people are chronically infected with Toxoplasma gondii with largely yet unknown consequences.

According to the link, Perhaps Pixel is a carrier and has infected the children. He really should get tested.
 
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pixelsmith said:
And yet neither one of you have read Wakefields paper,
Click to expand...

You are wrong.
I have read his paper, and it proves you wrong. That's why i don't need to listen to anything you cite as a counter argument.
If you can get that so wrong, i have no confidence in anything else you propose. In a court of law you would be whats called an "Unreliable Witness". It works like this. If during the trial the witness gives evidence that can be shown to be false or wrong they are declared unreliable and nothing else they say is admissible as evidence. That's whats happened to you here.

I've cited article after article that clearly states he did (contrary to your claims) propose a link between MMR and autism. Ive watched the Today show video where he states it outright.
You in a dazzling display of cognitive dissonance continue to counter with the play ground equivalent of "Nah Ahh" he never said that.

You are simply unreliable as a source of data and given that, nothing else you post is worth my time.

He didn't get his paper retracted, his license revoked and his name come up in a google search result that points to his making that claim for no reason.
10 of the other authors of that paper backed away from it admitting it was wrong.
Those things didn't just happen in a vacuum.

You are wrong, its as simple as that. That you are the only one who cant see it is fine. Everyone else knows the truth.
 
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