There is no 'lost mathematics' as you put it, only that there was an understanding of maths earlier than we give credit for.
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Ancient knowledge, lost or censored ?
- Thread starter dankaholic
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Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Marks, yes, but "machine tool marks"?
I keep on and on trying to press you on supplying not only evidence for this machining, but you won't even supply any sort of elaboration of what you have said regarding the machining of stones making up the Great Pyramid, the actual tools that you have said DID this machining. You have repeatedly described them as "belt-driven power tools" using as their power animals, strength, or water. I have addressed this as being patently absurd, and have repeatedly said, as I did about the Roman cranes you so cavalierly discounted, that sheer and slow mechanical force from humans, animals, cranes, pulleys, levers, etc. constituted the motive power.
How could a donkey trot fast enough or a human do, well, what action, running, rotating his hands, what (?), to supply the RPMs necessary, with the cutting edge you describe as being made of some mystery material?
To echo my eloquent initial response to your demand that the value of Pi was a necessity for the construction of the pyramids, and furthermore that Pi was unknown in antiquity: WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTT????????!!!!!!!!!
I then offered a cooler response to your Pi hypothesis, and have here and elsewhere about these "belt-driven power tools." You have said you don't mean they were powered by gas or electricity, so elaborate on this animal/human/water power for these tools. I mean, bring in the Nile if you need to, but give me some specifics.
"...........more than enough to destroy the currently accepted view of how these things were done." So, your second paragraph in your last post "destroys" what is "currently accepted"? AAAAARRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Machining of the blocks by these power tools destroys what is accepted?
You're back on square one, Gordon.
And I have addressed "bashing with copper" as a primary means of construction of the pyramids.
You and Pixel offer NO specifics or elaboration. You just invoke something else and you know what I mean. That is a refuge taken in frustration.
I really want specifics, Gordon. Kim
I keep on and on trying to press you on supplying not only evidence for this machining, but you won't even supply any sort of elaboration of what you have said regarding the machining of stones making up the Great Pyramid, the actual tools that you have said DID this machining. You have repeatedly described them as "belt-driven power tools" using as their power animals, strength, or water. I have addressed this as being patently absurd, and have repeatedly said, as I did about the Roman cranes you so cavalierly discounted, that sheer and slow mechanical force from humans, animals, cranes, pulleys, levers, etc. constituted the motive power.
How could a donkey trot fast enough or a human do, well, what action, running, rotating his hands, what (?), to supply the RPMs necessary, with the cutting edge you describe as being made of some mystery material?
To echo my eloquent initial response to your demand that the value of Pi was a necessity for the construction of the pyramids, and furthermore that Pi was unknown in antiquity: WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTT????????!!!!!!!!!
I then offered a cooler response to your Pi hypothesis, and have here and elsewhere about these "belt-driven power tools." You have said you don't mean they were powered by gas or electricity, so elaborate on this animal/human/water power for these tools. I mean, bring in the Nile if you need to, but give me some specifics.
"...........more than enough to destroy the currently accepted view of how these things were done." So, your second paragraph in your last post "destroys" what is "currently accepted"? AAAAARRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Machining of the blocks by these power tools destroys what is accepted?
You're back on square one, Gordon.
And I have addressed "bashing with copper" as a primary means of construction of the pyramids.
You and Pixel offer NO specifics or elaboration. You just invoke something else and you know what I mean. That is a refuge taken in frustration.
I really want specifics, Gordon. Kim
Kim, can you point me out to the articles and diagrams you speak of, I genuinely cannot findk. ones relevant to our discussion of Baalbek.
If they are there and they show the capability I speak of, then I will honourably defer to your knowledge and accept I have been in error.
I await your specific links dealing with cranes used to lift objects of around 1000 tons and with dimensions of the trilithons. - and I will be amazed because no-one is supposed to know how it was done!
I am always willing to be educated on any subject and am also always willing to concede when I've been wrong but I'm yet to see the proof. Not generalisations that 'the romans had cranes' etc because these stones are of an order of magnitude heavier than those used in the construction of viaducts of the colliseum etc.
If they are there and they show the capability I speak of, then I will honourably defer to your knowledge and accept I have been in error.
I await your specific links dealing with cranes used to lift objects of around 1000 tons and with dimensions of the trilithons. - and I will be amazed because no-one is supposed to know how it was done!
I am always willing to be educated on any subject and am also always willing to concede when I've been wrong but I'm yet to see the proof. Not generalisations that 'the romans had cranes' etc because these stones are of an order of magnitude heavier than those used in the construction of viaducts of the colliseum etc.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
i have no SPECIFIC scenarios. I entertain the possibility of existing knowledge, higher knowledge we are not aware of and i entertain the possibility of knowledge from ET. i do not have a clear picture as you do of who, how, why, when, etc..
and yes, leveling ground and the first course of foundation stone was done.... HOW? you say you know and it has been known for a long time, so tell me how in the case of the pyramids was it done, with water? optics? or what?
and yes, leveling ground and the first course of foundation stone was done.... HOW? you say you know and it has been known for a long time, so tell me how in the case of the pyramids was it done, with water? optics? or what?
P
pixelsmith
Guest
by the way, i was a landscaper for 8 years and a heavy equipment operator for about 20 years so i know how to level dirt and foundations.
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
From my research, Gordon, the quarry for the stones for Baalbek were above the building site, so that made it easier. But that's not the point really. Those stones were lifted by, yes, cranes, and yes, by Roman cranes. And no, the Romans built the temple complex at Baalbek, and there was no construction of anything remotely near that magnitude before the Romans built the complex. Of course, there was habitation there, but those structures were Roman. For Pete's sake, Gordon.
You're all over the map, and now back to the vanished civilizations thing again. So, now, because you discount Roman crane technology, the Romans didn't build those structures? Be clear.
But you're just getting in deeper and deeper, and now in the same breath as you deride Roman crane technology, you postulate, there you go again, this vanished advanced civilization predating what is known to be the window of recorded human history, and now, by gosh, it gets even more intriguing, BECAUSE:
this civilization is labeled as worldwide! Now, Gordon, you narrow your eyes in concentration, you dig deep into that hypothesis of "an advanced pre-history civilization" that was "worldwide," and for which "there is quite a lot of evidence" (all your quotes, Gordon), and tell me the nature of this worldwide civilization and what, SPECIFICALLY, the evidence for it is. Kim
You're all over the map, and now back to the vanished civilizations thing again. So, now, because you discount Roman crane technology, the Romans didn't build those structures? Be clear.
But you're just getting in deeper and deeper, and now in the same breath as you deride Roman crane technology, you postulate, there you go again, this vanished advanced civilization predating what is known to be the window of recorded human history, and now, by gosh, it gets even more intriguing, BECAUSE:
this civilization is labeled as worldwide! Now, Gordon, you narrow your eyes in concentration, you dig deep into that hypothesis of "an advanced pre-history civilization" that was "worldwide," and for which "there is quite a lot of evidence" (all your quotes, Gordon), and tell me the nature of this worldwide civilization and what, SPECIFICALLY, the evidence for it is.
Kim
@Kim - Ok, this is gonna be laborious but you say you are pressing me on specific examples - so I am going to give you just that.
If you check out the video Kieran posted on the other thread about the video that could change the way we think about how the pyramids were built etc? Ok, that video - fast forward to timestamp 12min 47 sec. You will see a large block of granite that looks like it has been sliced into by some powerful cutting tool.
How do you say that cut was achieved? I suggest we can go back and fore on point after point, one at a time, if you are agreeable. Lets just start with what looks to me, as a perfect example of something that was not just bashed at over a long period of time. No chance, the precision and finish is flawless. I do not pretend to know exactly how this was achieved - hence there being a mystery - but I do think it was not done solely with hand tools over a protracted period of time.
Your explanation for that piece in the video is?
If you check out the video Kieran posted on the other thread about the video that could change the way we think about how the pyramids were built etc? Ok, that video - fast forward to timestamp 12min 47 sec. You will see a large block of granite that looks like it has been sliced into by some powerful cutting tool.
How do you say that cut was achieved? I suggest we can go back and fore on point after point, one at a time, if you are agreeable. Lets just start with what looks to me, as a perfect example of something that was not just bashed at over a long period of time. No chance, the precision and finish is flawless. I do not pretend to know exactly how this was achieved - hence there being a mystery - but I do think it was not done solely with hand tools over a protracted period of time.
Your explanation for that piece in the video is?
Yes, there are a few threads and confusion happening, I accept that. So lets just deal with one thing at a time shall we?
My above post firstly, if you will.
I am really enjoying this as it is forcing some serious brain-engagement, though I fear neither of us will convince the other.
My above post firstly, if you will.
I am really enjoying this as it is forcing some serious brain-engagement, though I fear neither of us will convince the other.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
Kim please do tell us how the pyramids were built. Many thousands of people are ready to learn from you.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
Kim why are roman cranes not used today?
P
pixelsmith
Guest
ooh I can't wait to hear about how the pyramids were built and what tools were used. Kim knows all the details and is going to explain it all. yay!
maybe Gene and Chris should have Kim on as a guest to share his vast knowledge.
maybe Gene and Chris should have Kim on as a guest to share his vast knowledge.
Kim, I await your response regarding SPECIFICALLY the exact item of granite stonework I pointed to.
I am willing to also address my problems with pyramid building, roman cranes, worldwide civilisations but it's too confusing unless we tackle each one at a time.
I am willing to also address my problems with pyramid building, roman cranes, worldwide civilisations but it's too confusing unless we tackle each one at a time.
Before I forget - a quick piece of evidence that there was more communication between the continents than previously thought (worldwide culture?)
Two plants totally indigenous to the Americas - coca and tobacco, giving both nicotine and cocaine. Until North and South America were supposedly 'discovered' in the mid part of the last millenium, there should be no evidence of nicotine or cocaine on this side (Europe side) of the atlantic.
However, in the 1990's a top German toxicologist ran tests on hair samples from an Egyptian mummy. The sample showed traces of both nicotine and cocaine. Being from several thousand years ago, how on earth were such chemicals, that cannot be artificially produced, found in the hair of an African person?
To me, the only answer is that there must have been trade between Africa and South America, thousands of years ago. That is the definition of a world-wide culture is it not? If that is too strong a term, then it is still amazing to think of trade happening over a vast ocean in the boats of the time.
Two plants totally indigenous to the Americas - coca and tobacco, giving both nicotine and cocaine. Until North and South America were supposedly 'discovered' in the mid part of the last millenium, there should be no evidence of nicotine or cocaine on this side (Europe side) of the atlantic.
However, in the 1990's a top German toxicologist ran tests on hair samples from an Egyptian mummy. The sample showed traces of both nicotine and cocaine. Being from several thousand years ago, how on earth were such chemicals, that cannot be artificially produced, found in the hair of an African person?
To me, the only answer is that there must have been trade between Africa and South America, thousands of years ago. That is the definition of a world-wide culture is it not? If that is too strong a term, then it is still amazing to think of trade happening over a vast ocean in the boats of the time.
Qetuoadgjl
Skilled Investigator
Blah blah blah Kimster you're about as tolerant as Yahweh The Slaughterer. Then again, I'm being hypocritical because there is no way in Hell I am going to read multi-paragraphed, theses-styled replies so I really don't know you that well.
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Gordon, I have merely been asking you for more details about the "belt-driven power tools" you say were used to "machine" the blocks used for the pyramid(s). Those tools driven by human, animal, or water power. I don't understand why you can't elaborate on that except to say that they were not powered by electricity or oil (that's relief!). Kim
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Pixel, you are really, sorry, fella, not the brightest light in the starry skies. Your method of argumentation is exceedingly profound.
Gordon, yes, I went to that spot and watched some minutes before and after it. Remember that I had already watched it, as I had yours.
It took me literally fifteen seconds to find the following article. I'm not one to post long videos and interminable cut and paste as you know.
I can link you to many other articles, if you insist.
However, you are still dancing around a fundamental question: Describe the evidence for, or at least some sort of elaboration on, the "belt-driven power tools" with this mysterious material as its cutting surface, and that is powered by animal/human/wind power. These are all descriptions of your "machining" tool.
You have to have something, Gordon, to throw into this gaping gap that is your premise that, well, what is it, still confusing to me, concerning not only the Egyptians, but now the Romans, and you dance all over the map. So, what's this tool that did the machining, and now the cutting, on the blocks used in the Great Pyramid?
If the Egyptians didn't do it, then who did, and how? Now it's a worldwide civilization.
Here's just one of many links I can give you, Gordon.
BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Building the Great Pyramid
Kim
Gordon, yes, I went to that spot and watched some minutes before and after it. Remember that I had already watched it, as I had yours.
It took me literally fifteen seconds to find the following article. I'm not one to post long videos and interminable cut and paste as you know.
I can link you to many other articles, if you insist.
However, you are still dancing around a fundamental question: Describe the evidence for, or at least some sort of elaboration on, the "belt-driven power tools" with this mysterious material as its cutting surface, and that is powered by animal/human/wind power. These are all descriptions of your "machining" tool.
You have to have something, Gordon, to throw into this gaping gap that is your premise that, well, what is it, still confusing to me, concerning not only the Egyptians, but now the Romans, and you dance all over the map. So, what's this tool that did the machining, and now the cutting, on the blocks used in the Great Pyramid?
If the Egyptians didn't do it, then who did, and how? Now it's a worldwide civilization.
Here's just one of many links I can give you, Gordon.
BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Building the Great Pyramid
Kim
Good article on circular saws
The Mega Saws of the Pyramid Builders » Atlantis Rising Magazine
The Mega Saws of the Pyramid Builders » Atlantis Rising Magazine
Kim323
Paranormal Maven
Gordon, here's a link about cranes. Scroll down to the sections entitled Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. See my post above for an introductory article on the Egyptians and their pyramids.
I can give you many more (on both Egyptian and Roman technology). I use Wikepedia with a grain of salt, but it can be helpful.
I figured this would be a good introduction for you to acquaint yourself with crane use in antiquity.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crane_(machine)
Again, you are digging yourself in pretty deeply here, with your vacillating and changes in opinion.
Again, if the Egyptians and Romans didn't do it, then who did? Now it's a worldwide civilization. Where does this end? Do you want examples of other human civilizations and their structures, etc.? But then you will simply state that no, no, look at that! They COULDN'T HAVE done that! And look at that and this, they had to have had belt-driven power tools! But, again, where does it all end? Kim
I can give you many more (on both Egyptian and Roman technology). I use Wikepedia with a grain of salt, but it can be helpful.
I figured this would be a good introduction for you to acquaint yourself with crane use in antiquity.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crane_(machine)
Again, you are digging yourself in pretty deeply here, with your vacillating and changes in opinion.
Again, if the Egyptians and Romans didn't do it, then who did? Now it's a worldwide civilization. Where does this end? Do you want examples of other human civilizations and their structures, etc.? But then you will simply state that no, no, look at that! They COULDN'T HAVE done that! And look at that and this, they had to have had belt-driven power tools!
But, again, where does it all end? Kim
Firstly, I have no evidence of belt-driven tools. It is a possible example. You seem to miss the point that what we are talking about is UNEXPLAINED. That is precisely the mystery. I suggested that we look at points one by one. Starting with the block of granite that looks like it was cut by a machine blade of some sort.
No, I cannot point you to an exact tool that made that cut. But at the same time, I doubt anyone can explain it being made by copper chisels. Again, that is the mystery that no-one seems able to answer.
You are correct in that I have been jumping from one point to another, from Rome to Egypt - that is my fault for not sticking to one thing at a time, so I suggest we accept that and address points individually.
I have never said I have all the answers, on the contrary, I think it is the lack of any of us having the answers being the case.
So again, I ask you one thing and one thing only at a time. At the point in the video I directed you to, in which there appears to be a block of granite that looks like it was cut by a machine - what is your explanation for that cut? How do you explain that perfect cut?
I am open to explanations I don't have myself, again that is the mystery. What is your explanation of how that granite was cut? Please don't answer like previously in general terms as to how you think I am mixing all these history's up and inventing tools that never existed.
I simply ask how you explain that cut granite in the context of the time, according to current egyptology?
Jeez Kim - I asked you to answer one single thing specifically and your answer was, and I quote, 'Gordon, yes, I went to that spot and watched some minutes before and after it. Remember that I had already watched it, as I had yours.'
I admit Kim, I am in the dark as to what your answer was - all you did there was confirm you watched the video and then completely skipped giving the answer that was the point of watching that bit of the video!
That's a couple of times I think you've dodged the one question
So, just in case my asking about 5 times is insufficient, I will ask one question and one question only for now: What is your explanation for the apparent perfect cut in the granite block at the time stamp I indicated?
I don't hold out much hope for you answering this one question with specifics, just general dismissals of everything I say!
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block?
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block?
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block? (I have repeated the question because you have so far dodged answering it)
No, I cannot point you to an exact tool that made that cut. But at the same time, I doubt anyone can explain it being made by copper chisels. Again, that is the mystery that no-one seems able to answer.
You are correct in that I have been jumping from one point to another, from Rome to Egypt - that is my fault for not sticking to one thing at a time, so I suggest we accept that and address points individually.
I have never said I have all the answers, on the contrary, I think it is the lack of any of us having the answers being the case.
So again, I ask you one thing and one thing only at a time. At the point in the video I directed you to, in which there appears to be a block of granite that looks like it was cut by a machine - what is your explanation for that cut? How do you explain that perfect cut?
I am open to explanations I don't have myself, again that is the mystery. What is your explanation of how that granite was cut? Please don't answer like previously in general terms as to how you think I am mixing all these history's up and inventing tools that never existed.
I simply ask how you explain that cut granite in the context of the time, according to current egyptology?
Jeez Kim - I asked you to answer one single thing specifically and your answer was, and I quote, 'Gordon, yes, I went to that spot and watched some minutes before and after it. Remember that I had already watched it, as I had yours.'
I admit Kim, I am in the dark as to what your answer was - all you did there was confirm you watched the video and then completely skipped giving the answer that was the point of watching that bit of the video!
That's a couple of times I think you've dodged the one question
So, just in case my asking about 5 times is insufficient, I will ask one question and one question only for now: What is your explanation for the apparent perfect cut in the granite block at the time stamp I indicated?
I don't hold out much hope for you answering this one question with specifics, just general dismissals of everything I say!
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block?
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block?
What is your explanation for the apparent cut granite block? (I have repeated the question because you have so far dodged answering it)