A Warning About ET's Intentions

[Ezechiel]

1) Scholarly knowledge or curiosity
2) Military threat assessment and planning

Honestly, every scenario I can imagine fits into one of those 2 categories. Number 1 can be nice and friendly or cold and calculating. Number 2 is chilling.

From a human perspective (given our level of advancement) these are scenarios that make sense. The other one missing is covert exploitation. (As we evolve it becomes harder for them to keep the cover lol).

These scenarios would be applicable to competing civilizations relatively close in capabilities to earths.

IMHO, the level of advancement of a civilization dictates needs and requirements that sustain a civilization. These needs translate into intents and actions that solve their problem.

For example: Chinese presence in Sudan, American presence in the middle east are required to secure energetic resources that feed their respective empires. Along that line of thought there could be a multitude of failed eco-systems in the galaxy where some civilizations are forced to rebuild using compatible material taken from remote and viable planetary systems (Speilberg's ET could fall into that line of thought)

This would depend on how fast complex organic structures can degrade... Is there such a thing as a genetic weapon ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/259222.stm

 

[stonehart]

Is there such a thing as a genetic weapon

Not that we know of but give the powers that be time.

The second century was more peaceful than the 20th.

hahaha hmmm well you know you do have a point.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

I don't see how contact, physical contact anyway, between an intelligent alien race and ourselves could go well. The primary reason is because of our individuality. Even if the majority of people were in favor of it there would certainly be some people who would want the ET's heads on sticks. The actions of just one person could potentially start an intergalactic confrontation. If we are the superior species then perhaps we could come out of such a relationship unscathed but if they are superior we could be in for a disaster.

And I wonder how a species with a hive mind, one without much individuality, would react to the prospect of several billion humans all with their own ideas and agendas and armed with intelligence, technology, and knowledge of their existence. That's a whole lot of different outlooks to worry about. Hopefully if it ever does happen we'll meet a species of individuals like we are. They would understand us more and would recognize that the actions of one shouldn't be cause to damn an entire species. But if we encounter an intelligent species more like bees, one with a collective conscious, they might not understand us at all and could interpret some actions in a way that would be devastating for us.

 

[Trajanus]

I don't see how contact, physical contact anyway, between an intelligent alien race and ourselves could go well. The primary reason is because of our individuality. Even if the majority of people were in favor of it there would certainly be some people who would want the ET's heads on sticks. The actions of just one person could potentially start an intergalactic confrontation.

I don't think that would happen if both sides wanted peace. Unless it was looking for a pretext to fight, a government would say that some lone individual doesn't represent an entire state or world. They may be different but if we can understand them why not the other way around?

 

[trainedobserver]

Using human history as our model (what else do we have?) isn't it more likely that a sufficiently advanced civilization would use deceptive, subversive, and covert tactics to influence and control any society they encounter to further whatever their agenda might be rather than any overt or violent means? Isn't it entirely possible that a sufficiently advanced civilization could do this without our ever realizing it?

The whole premise that "if they were hostile they would have already destroyed us" is an extremely narrow minded and unimaginative position to take. Any non-human contact we might have must logically be contact with representatives of a foreign government. That one realization alone should frame any speculation about the nature of what we are actually dealing with in the UFO phenomena. If that is true then the machinations of anyone contacting us are driven by a 'government' and are therefore inherently dangerous and suspect.

 

[Trajanus]

Using human history as our model (what else do we have?) isn't it more likely that a sufficiently advanced civilization would use deceptive, subversive, and covert tactics to influence and control any society they encounter to further whatever their agenda might be rather than any overt or violent means?

Actually human history shows that if one party is superior technologically, it needn't be covert. But it's possible that the superiority of the ETs is limited by the great distances involved and commitments elsewhere i.e. they might not be able to localize enough force here for an overt, overnight conquest. Hence a more subtle approach.

Isn't it entirely possible that a sufficiently advanced civilization could do this without our ever realizing it?

Sure. Remarkably, despite widespread awareness of UFOs, so few take it seriously it doesn't appear to be on any state's public agenda.

The whole premise that "if they were hostile they would have already destroyed us" is an extremely narrow minded and unimaginative position to take.

I agree absolutely.

 

[trainedobserver]

Actually human history shows that if one party is superior technologically, it needn't be covert.

I was referring to the ability of the West to manipulate the third world through means other than open aggression.

 

[Trajanus]

I was referring to the ability of the West to manipulate the third world through means other than open aggression.

But also overt e.g. gaining influence through aid programs. Of course they've also used secret agents but third world countries aren't necessarily more susceptible. Most would-be infiltrators of the Taliban have ended up dead. Egypt and Iraq have foiled CIA and other plots.

 

[Ezechiel]

The whole premise that "if they were hostile they would have already destroyed us" is an extremely narrow minded and unimaginative position to take.

I agree absolutely.

First they would use/exploit us and then they would destroy us if we took offense and stopped being cooperative

Subtle differences make the whole difference ROFL

 

[trainedobserver]

I think it is entirely possible that we would never actually get clued into the type of use/exploitation we are victims of. If the phenomena is "crypto-terrestrial" then it seems that it is certainly the case. Something co-existing on the Earth with the human race and remaining hidden for so long suggests that is how things operate.

I don't know and I'm pretty convinced no one else does either. Certainly not the yahoos and con-men that are making so much noise in the community now about disclosure and "alien technology".

 

[Ezechiel]

I think it is entirely possible that we would never actually get clued into the type of use/exploitation we are victims of. If the phenomena is "crypto-terrestrial" then it seems that it is certainly the case. Something co-existing on the Earth with the human race and remaining hidden for so long suggests that is how things operate.

I'd hate to get clued in to the fact that our skin or guts are of any value to an alien race... but who knows

Shark fin soup or skin:

 

[Trajanus]

First they would use/exploit us and then they would destroy us if we took offense and stopped being cooperative

Possible, if our continued advances make exploitation tougher.

---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

I'd hate to get clued in to the fact that our skin or guts are of any value to an alien race... but who knows

Based on some alien actions and words, that's what it has seemed like. If they're far ahead, they wouldn't have much use for our brains, or what we have to say.

---------- Post added at 05:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

I think it is entirely possible that we would never actually get clued into the type of use/exploitation we are victims of.

Given our rapid advances--intellectual as well as technical--I think we should in time be able to comprehend just about anything or everything. In the real world, everything evolves. The phenomenon presumably had to evolve to its current status, why can't we too?

If the phenomena is "crypto-terrestrial" then it seems that it is certainly the case. Something co-existing on the Earth with the human race and remaining hidden for so long suggests that is how things operate.

Funny that a party with superior capability chooses to hide.

I don't know and I'm pretty convinced no one else does either. Certainly not the yahoos and con-men that are making so much noise in the community now about disclosure and "alien technology".

Some may be yahoos and con men but the ETH, and a nuts and bolts phenomenon--to a considerable degree at least--are as credible as any other view if not more so.

 

[Ezechiel]

Funny that a party with superior capability chooses to hide.

Assuming that they are exploiting this planet, being covert makes sense. Being out in the open would be counter-productive to very long term operations.

When we catch sharks they usually only see the nets and bloodied tuna pieces.

 

[Trajanus]

Assuming that they are exploiting this planet, being covert makes sense. Being out in the open would be counter-productive to very long term operations.

If the goal of an indigenous group, supposedly widespread, is just exploitation, or to take over, an overt approach would be faster and more efficient. Just like the Europeans exploiting primitive lands. But things could be different if they're ETs. They may not be able to localize enough strength for an overt operation.

 

[redheadnation]

No one can know what the intentions of ET's are until we are face to face with them. We don't even know the intentions of the folks in the White House! But I do know that there are evil and good forces in the world and universe. I believe the same goes for ET........but you will not know by looking at them or even by thier actions. What I mean by actions is for example if a child goes to the doctor and gets an antibiotic shot the child will think the doctor is bad because he/she caused pain to the child. The action was to make the child well via some pain. I'm not saying that those who have a negative experience with an ET is a good thing. All I'm saying is that we don't know either way.

As far as having the notion that the ET's are carbon based we don't know that. We usually can't think out side the box as far as what ET's might live in, communicate, function, look like, be made of, and so forth.

I'm new to this and the Paracast. I know that we have to investigate, keep an open mind, be a skeptic, keep data, hold others accountable, ask the hard questions and not bury our heads in the sand.

Regards,
Redheadnation

 

[Trajanus]

No one can know what the intentions of ET's are until we are face to face with them. We don't even know the intentions of the folks in the White House! But I do know that there are evil and good forces in the world and universe. I believe the same goes for ET........but you will not know by looking at them or even by thier actions. What I mean by actions is for example if a child goes to the doctor and gets an antibiotic shot the child will think the doctor is bad because he/she caused pain to the child. The action was to make the child well via some pain. I'm not saying that those who have a negative experience with an ET is a good thing. All I'm saying is that we don't know either way.

ETs definitely caused harm on many occasions. Look at Cash, Michalak, Taylor, Valentich, Moncla and the mutilated Brazilians.

As far as having the notion that the ET's are carbon based we don't know that. We usually can't think out side the box as far as what ET's might live in, communicate, function, look like, be made of, and so forth.

The only alternative, being silicon based, seems less efficient, hence hard to reconcile with a more advanced system.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

ETs definitely caused harm on many occasions. Look at Cash, Michalak, Taylor, Valentich, Moncla and the mutilated Brazilians.



The only alternative, being silicon based, seems less efficient, hence hard to reconcile with a more advanced system.

You don't think there's a chance that Cash-Landrum could have been caused by a military prototype test flight gone haywire? I think it's a very good case but the nature of it leaves open the door for an experimental nuclear-powered military aircraft imo. Friedman says they were working on engines of that sort decades ago. I'm not saying that's definitely what it was. But I think it's a possibility.

 

[Trajanus]

You don't think there's a chance that Cash-Landrum could have been caused by a military prototype test flight gone haywire?

Maybe. But the way the "haywire" thing just happened to come down right over the highway--of all the places it could've been in that forested area--directly blocking Cash with its flame... I have doubts.

 

[redheadnation]

ETs definitely caused harm on many occasions. Look at Cash, Michalak, Taylor, Valentich, Moncla and the mutilated Brazilians.


As far as these being ETs we don't know that. We have no evidence that this was not done by someone here on earth.........other humans. Yes, think of all the terrible acts humans have performed on other humans in the name of science.........the Japanese and Nazis come to mind at first. Also, think of what humans have done in the name of religion.........the Pilgrims and witch trials, the missionaries all over the world esp to indigenous tribes, and the horrific Inquisitions. I'm not picking on any group because I come from a family that is Baptist, Catholic, Italian, Asian, Mexican, Black, Puerto Rican, and for myself I say that I'm a Christian with an open mind interested in many religions with a skeptic eye.

Basically, we don't have enough evidence to make any conclusions to any of this. We just don't know and that makes us afraid, leery, and a bit pissed off.

The only alternative, being silicon based, seems less efficient, hence hard to reconcile with a more advanced system.

Now see this is exactly what I was saying. We assume that the only base of life is either carbon or silicon. We just don't know what other possibilities are out there. It is like putting God in a box and saying that he can only do one thing........make life out of carbon. Now, I know that many of you don't believe in God creation but let's put that aside. We simply can't IMAGINE what other forms of life is out there. I believe that we have the creative imagination to dream and potentially allow our minds to wrap around other possible creations of life forms. But that is very very hard to do because we use our life as a reference point and it is difficult to break away from it. We tend to think of alternate intelligent life forms as having eyes to see, mouth to speak, a digestive system and so forth. That is because that is how we are built, and we have many design faults!

What makes this forum so wonderful, and I'm new to this, is that we have to opportunity to discuss and to be able to try and imagine what possibilities are out there.

 

[Trajanus]

Now see this is exactly what I was saying. We assume that the only base of life is either carbon or silicon.

The latter is the only theoretical alternative I ever heard of. If anything else could be a basis of life, in the real world, biochemists probably would've thought of it by now.