A Warning About ET's Intentions

[Roger]

Good points. I think we suffer from a lack of information. If the Universe is indeed "teeming with life," resources, water, etc. where nearly every star has at least one planet supporting life, then that's one thing. If the Universe is such that a planet like ours is quite rare, the value goes up, and so does the competition. Of course, we have theorists who claim both extremes, but we still don't really know.

I don't think that planets like ours are extremely rare considering the discovery of multiple bodied star systems in our local galactic neighborhood. I don't think an extrapolation to the rest of the galaxy is too far fetched, nor to other galaxies.

The distribution of elements in a galaxy is a fairly well known proportion; however, the production of elements in a particular galactic region would depend on the frequency of occurrence of supernova, which produce the elements. If a particular element was a resource of interest, perhaps there would be an interest in the heavier elements which are a smaller piece of the elemental distribution pie. If this was the case, then local planetary sites with concentration of these elements could be of interest (e.g. uranium in Canada or Russia). Other rare isotopes or compounds could potentially be of interest. Correlation of these sites of interest with sightings might yield a significant correlation (or not...).

 

[Ezechiel]

But, as our own growing knowledge of extrasolar planets shows, habitable planets appear very rare.

That's a premature statement. Kepler telescope is barely starting its mission ...

 

[Ankhes]

At the end of the day, so to speak, we really do not know ET's intentions. Habitable planets may be fairly common or very rare. We do not know.

Right now it seems "politically correct" to keep bashing the human race and say we are awful and primitive and such, but I don't for a single moment believe that any advanced race out there didn't have their own growing pains. And who's to say that they turned out better because of it or worse. We simply do not know.

Of course "good and evil" are subjective. Each side or race will always think they are the good guys.

Are we just fighting monkeys? Are they?

Will a bullet kill a human? Yes. Will it kill an ET? Probably. I don't think we are as defenseless as many think. At least I hope not. If "bad" ET's come here they may or may not have a huge fight on their hands. They may be underestimating us and we overestimating them. Just because they can travel far doesn't mean they aren't vulnerable.

But I say all this mainly because I believe advanced races are relatively uncommon and highly doubt ET's have or are visiting here. I know I'm probably the only one, as I was in a poll a while back, to say that I don't really believe ET's are here or have visited us. I am open to the possibility as a true skeptic is, but I just need more compelling evidence.

As to hoping...I'm not sure. I'm am curious about life out there, but not to the point where I have to worry if my family and planet may be killed or enslaved or something equally horrid.

As to SETI signals...maybe no-one has answered because no-one got them. Or they cannot decipher them yet. Or they are worried about us because they wonder about our intentions just as we wonder about theirs.

Cool thread. I really like this one. Keep it coming!

 

[Ezechiel]

As to SETI signals...maybe no-one has answered because no-one got them. Or they cannot decipher them yet. Or they are worried about us because they wonder about our intentions just as we wonder about theirs.

I have a systemic view about any alien intent for or against our interests. Its all about survival and return on investment: What do we have that they don't have ?, are we a threat or potential ally ?

Why would resource management not apply at a galactic level ?. If there was the presence of something very rare on our planet or difficult to synthesize we wouldn't be here to chat about it lol.

Maybe our planet has been assessed as having a low value decreasing with time as the population of humans grows to occupy every inch of its surface. Whats the use of visiting another boring planetary virus ? Been there done that lol

In the end its better to visit than to be visited (...and feel trapped because you don't have the technology to escape)... at least you can go back home

 

[Ankhes]

I have a systemic view about any alien intent for or against our interests. Its all about survival and return on investment: What do we have that they don't have ?, are we a threat or potential ally ?

Why would resource management not apply at a galactic level ?. If there was the presence of something very rare on our planet or difficult to synthesize we wouldn't be here to chat about it lol.

Maybe our planet has been assessed as having a low value decreasing with time as the population of humans grows to occupy every inch of its surface. Whats the use of visiting another boring planetary virus ? Been there done that lol

In the end its better to visit than to be visited (...and feel trapped because you don't have the technology to escape)... at least you can go back home

Good reply but I don't know. This is all taking for granted that there is advanced life somewhere near us to know. And we don't know that for a fact. I think it is as likely as not, or more so, that no-one knows about us.

What do we have that others may not? Minerals. Vast diversity of life. A great goldie locks zone. A lovely moon. The Three Stooges on VHS. Probably lots of things! I just won't accept the "aliens are here" without good, solid proof. Just as I don't accept a god or creator of the universe without good solid evidence. I'll be happy to change my mind should said proof appear but so far it hasn't.

I do hope it comes during my lifetime but I won't hold my breath. But ya never know. Strange and wondrous things happen all the time!

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

The available evidence would indicate that: (i) they can readily neutralize our military capabilities given what has happened in skies over Tehran, the ICBM silos on the plains of Montana, and over the missile test ranges of California; and (ii) the resource they are looking for is genetic material rather than a scarce mineral or precious stone (also, Michael Heiser has effectively discredited the scholarship of Sitchin).

Whatever the case, the phenomena to date has been relatively subtle/sly and patient, although not entirely invisible. It certainly doesn't appear eager to overtly assist us in any way, and I don't buy John Mack's evolution of the consciousness interpretation.

 

[Ankhes]

The available evidence would indicate that: (i) they can readily neutralize our military capabilities given what has happened in skies over Tehran, the ICBM silos on the plains of Montana, and over the missile test ranges of California; and (ii) the resource they are looking for is genetic material rather than a scarce mineral or precious stone (also, Michael Heiser has effectively discredited the scholarship of Sitchin).

Whatever the case, the phenomena to date has been relatively subtle/sly and patient, although not entirely invisible. It certainly doesn't appear eager to overtly assist us in any way, and I don't buy John Mack's evolution of the consciousness interpretation.

I really hate being the odd gal out...maybe I should stop posting again! I agree that there is evidence, but I wouldn't bet my life or that of anyone else that it is solid enough to be called proof and thus real. And when so and so allegedly discredits so and so...well, sometimes so and so IS discredited...but sometimes only according to some. Thus the vastly differing opinions and beliefs on the entire subject.

Sigh...I don't know. I just know that for me I am not ready to accept what evidence there is necessarily points to extra-terrestrial or even crypto-terrestrial just yet. I maintain a fascination with the subject and will continue to follow as best I can. I just hope the truth will out one day. And I mean truth in the sense that everyone knows it - sort of like everyone knows that dogs and cats exist. Such proof as that cannot be denied because it is so solid.

When it comes down to brass tacks, I just don't think there is proof yet. But I do think that Gene and David and some of their guests are on the right path to finding the truth, whatever it turns out to be.

 

[Ezechiel]

The available evidence would indicate that: (i) they can readily neutralize our military capabilities given what has happened in skies over Tehran, the ICBM silos on the plains of Montana, and over the missile test ranges of California; and (ii) the resource they are looking for is genetic material rather than a scarce mineral or precious stone (also, Michael Heiser has effectively discredited the scholarship of Sitchin).

Whatever the case, the phenomena to date has been relatively subtle/sly and patient, although not entirely invisible. It certainly doesn't appear eager to overtly assist us in any way, and I don't buy John Mack's evolution of the consciousness interpretation.

That's my gut feeling exactly. Genetic material is an expression of complexity and the result of infinite mutations and natural selections enabling succesful species. The information in there is priceless. A mineral or precious stone is a very basic structure compared to genetics.

 

[Ankhes]

That would make sense if they are here. Genetic material would indeed be valuable. That's what we'd look for, wouldn't we? I wouldn't rule out minerals but genetics is a really precious commodity.

 

[Ezechiel]

That would make sense if they are here. Genetic material would indeed be valuable. That's what we'd look for, wouldn't we? I wouldn't rule out minerals but genetics is a really precious commodity.

It is precious if you are able to decode it and view its content as an evolutionary solution to the adversities present on our planet.

If their home planet was suddenly vulnerable to levels of radiation similar to earths. The DNA sequences that describe how our organisms deal with that challenge might help them upgrade their constructs... Instead of going through natural selection and the extermination of a large part of their populations because of a sudden radiation level change.

If their intent was to invade our planet, you'd think that they would want to prepare by incorporating earthly solutions in their genetic makeup ('a la Avatar' lol).

The assumption here is that they emerged from the same primordial soup, are carbon-based and that DNA is universal.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Ankhes, I suspect we all would take the same position. I think we would all agree that we do have (significantly?) more evidence surrounding UFOs than we did in the 1940s or 1950s, thanks to the work of Philips, Vallee, Imbrogno, Hopkins, Jacobs and select others. This is not to say that the evidence is conclusive, but we have made strides in collecting data and thinking logically about it. Additionally, we have developed a broader array of scientific theories surrounding 'reality' given the work done in areas such as string theory and quantum mechanics. Again, this is not to say this science is all settled (particularly string theory), but at least we now consider inter-dimensionality when discussing UFOs. However, most/all on this forum would agree with your statements above regarding our lack of a firm understanding of UFOs. We cannot draw any firm conclusions, but I personally think we have taken many positive steps. Whether we get there ultimately is another question.

Regarding 'reality' or 'proof' that anything exists with certainty, laboratory experiments have demonstrated that the possibility waves of quantum mechanics apply with equal validity to complex molecules, not just subatomic particles. The logical conclusion may be that the chair sitting in the center of my room very well may exist only as a possibility until an observer or unit of consciousness encounters it and collapses that wave into a determinate form. Given its size, there generally is very little variation in the chair's form and positioning from one conscious observation to another -- the variations generally are just so small we don't notice a difference (but perhaps our lasers can).

Maybe UFOs don't need to better conform to our traditional views of reality; perhaps our traditional views on reality need to better conform to our observations surrounding UFOs?

 

[Ron Collins]

IF the UFO phenomenon turns out to be extraterrestrial in origin, I dont think they are particularly interested in being friends. Whatever the phenomenon is it seems to be studying us and our planet and doing it somewhat covertly. Personally, that thought bugs me. From a human point of view there are only a few reasons why a species would be doing that.

1) Scholarly knowledge or curiosity
2) Military threat assessment and planning

Honestly, every scenario I can imagine fits into one of those 2 categories. Number 1 can be nice and friendly or cold and calculating. Number 2 is chilling.

I would agree that we have shown that most resources are abundant in the universe. If a civilization can venture into interstellar travel, I have to believe that they would have to have mastered finding and exploiting resources where ever they found them. Very scavenger like. But, it would be much easier to extract and store liquid water then expend the time and energy required to mine or collect frozen ice and convert it to a liquid form. Thus, a place where liquid water is in abundance and is readily accessible would be a huge draw.

So I think it might be less about the abundance of a given material but more about the useful form and purity of that resource. Basically its interstellar economics. Whatever they are, they expend energy. Every biological species would be hard wired to expend as little energy at a given task as possible. Thus value would be associated with expending less energy to collect and process a given material. That is motivation. How that motivation manifests itself is the crux of it. Being from a predatory dominated ecosystem(earth) things like sneaking around and collecting information covertly make me nervous and insecure about possible intentions.

 

[bobheck]

1) Scholarly knowledge or curiosity 2) Military threat assessment and planning

Number 2 just does not make sense to me. This phenomenon has been going on since prehistoric times.

 

[Ron Collins]

Number 2 just does not make sense to me. This phenomenon has been going on since prehistoric times.

Perhaps in prehistoric times there was no real competition or ownership issues with the available resources. Humans have evolved and conquered the planet pretty fast really. Perhaps the issue is more on the radar now. I dont know. Perhaps I just like the idea of being feared better than the idea of being a lab rat.

 

[Trajanus]

1) Scholarly knowledge or curiosity
2) Military threat assessment and planning... Number 2 is chilling.

Right and they may in fact be contemplating aggression rather than preparing for it. I don't believe they'd expend this much effort for so long for purely academic reasons.

Being from a predatory dominated ecosystem(earth) things like sneaking around and collecting information covertly make me nervous and insecure about possible intentions.

Agreed. Especially when most of the info collected pertains to us and our capabilities.

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

Number 2 just does not make sense to me. This phenomenon has been going on since prehistoric times.

That's likely but I don't know if we can be sure. It's possible that they began with pure research and now are up to something more sinister.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

Perhaps in prehistoric times there was no real competition or ownership issues with the available resources.

There sure were among the earliest humans e.g. when Cro Magnon man apparently ran the neanderthals to extinction. A widely held view is that our ancestors outcompeted the neanderthals for available resources.

 

[Ron Collins]

There sure were among the earliest humans e.g. when Cro Magnon man apparently ran the neanderthals to extinction. A widely held view is that our ancestors outcompeted the neanderthals for available resources.

I meant competition for "Them". F-16's are a bit more concerning than "big stick".

 

[Ankhes]

Ankhes, I suspect we all would take the same position. I think we would all agree that we do have (significantly?) more evidence surrounding UFOs than we did in the 1940s or 1950s, thanks to the work of Philips, Vallee, Imbrogno, Hopkins, Jacobs and select others. This is not to say that the evidence is conclusive, but we have made strides in collecting data and thinking logically about it. Additionally, we have developed a broader array of scientific theories surrounding 'reality' given the work done in areas such as string theory and quantum mechanics. Again, this is not to say this science is all settled (particularly string theory), but at least we now consider inter-dimensionality when discussing UFOs. However, most/all on this forum would agree with your statements above regarding our lack of a firm understanding of UFOs. We cannot draw any firm conclusions, but I personally think we have taken many positive steps. Whether we get there ultimately is another question.

Absolutely, I agree with this and that's why I love this show and keep being very interested in this topic. I guess I hear and read from so many die-hard believers that it makes me really try to keep my head on straight and not leap to any conclusions. As much as I like Bill Birnes, for example, I just don't agree that the aliens are here. He seems so confident of that and on his shows presents little compelling evidence. Unless I am misunderstanding him? I haven't read is mag, but from what I've heard from him he believes and keeps saying things like "we've sent the skeptics running" (he should say "cynics" because the way many use the word they don't seem to know what a true skeptic is) and he hadn't even had a well-informed skeptic on the show to possibly counter his statements!

He's probably not the best example, but I think you all know what I mean. At first I found Jim Sparks to seem really genuine and truthful. Until I kept listening. Then to find out many cling to him like a cult leader...(((shiver))). Like David always says, frauds just poison the pool. I hope that doesn't, to paraphrase your last sentence, keep us from getting to the truth.

 

[Xylo]

Right and they may in fact be contemplating aggression rather than preparing for it. I don't believe they'd expend this much effort for so long for purely academic reasons.

Consider your perspective...it is one in which Time (with a capital "T") plays a role. If indeed these visitors are from an advanced race, perhaps Time plays less of a role there than it does in our human construct.

But going further, don't scientists like to study things over time? We have weather data which we seem to track since it was recordable. We track (over time and geographical area) the movements of birds, insects and countless other species. A long term (possibly thousands of years) study of several different species and their development would fascinate the biologist in me and I'm not a biologist! Archeologists, I'm sure would love to be able to study the intricacies of those societies in which they specialize...especially in real time.

Even further, what if this earth is nothing more than just a high-end science project? What if seeds of life were strewn about the galaxies in an attempt to "see what happens?" And it just so happens that we, earthlings in our warrior like state, are what happened.

I don't think we know what the motivations for these visitors, if they are indeed visitores, are. But speculations can run the gamut from innocuous to downright hostile-but it still boils down to one word: speculation.

I'm not about to don a tinfoil hat, nor open my arms to my "space brothers." I will, however, keep an open mind and adjust my actions accordingly.

 

[Ankhes]

I'm not about to don a tinfoil hat, nor open my arms to my "space brothers." I will, however, keep an open mind and adjust my actions accordingly.

Now THAT is more of what a true skeptic does. We adjust our views according to the evidence provided, even over time, just as science texts do. Cynics and Bleevers are not prone to do this.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

But going further, don't scientists like to study things over time? We have weather data which we seem to track since it was recordable. We track (over time and geographical area) the movements of birds, insects and countless other species. A long term (possibly thousands of years) study of several different species and their development would fascinate the biologist in me and I'm not a biologist! Archeologists, I'm sure would love to be able to study the intricacies of those societies in which they specialize...especially in real time.

Even further, what if this earth is nothing more than just a high-end science project? What if seeds of life were strewn about the galaxies in an attempt to "see what happens?" And it just so happens that we, earthlings in our warrior like state, are what happened.

Wasn't it Jacques Vallee who observed that this phenomena is unlikely to be primarily a scientific survey given the level of activity surrounding UFOs? This doesn't mean that science isn't one aspect of it but, as Vallee observed, why wouldn't a handful of earth visits suffice instead of thousands or millions? Why not break into the Stanford biological lab where there is a multitude of biological samples stored and steal everything you can find?

Perhaps we are in fact being genetically upgraded and re-engineered, if you believe the results of Hopkins' and Jacobs' research and their Roper Polls (with the polling being repeated by the Bigelow organization, I believe). This supports your high-end science project theory, and takes it several steps further. It also explains why we have the same body type.