A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[Trajanus]

I wasn't talking airships. I was thinking of a number of ufo sightings where propellers appear on the outside of the ship. I would suggest their value for intergalactic travel is nebulous at best.

First who says EVERY alien craft has to be capable of interstellar travel?? Many could be small scout craft.

Pulleys, beer can aliens, flying hotels, giant tanks, ships with pulleys, robots who try and gey humans out of trees, aliens in the shape of eyeballs and the list goes on of ridiculous imagery that appears to be internally generated at best. It fits the IP theory well.

Concerning "robots who try and gey humans out of trees" I very much doubt Shrum, who desperately battled them, thought they were "internally generated." I don't doubt a lot of things observed seem ridiculous for a spacefaring system. But in light of its obvious unwillingness to be revealed openly, it wouldn't be at all surprising if it often WANTS to appear ridiculous, to prevent general acceptance of its reality.

 

[Randall]

The point has to be made that ridiculous cases in ufology are probably nothing more than fiction and therefore have no bearing on the core subject matter. However, in the unlikely event that some aliens wanted to make an appearance in something that looked like a dirigible with propellers, then as @Trajanus suggests, they must have had some reason for it. Either way, equating these kinds of cases with the rest of the phenomenon is equally nonsensical. So I'm not sure why it's being done. What's the reason?

 

[Jeff Davis]

I don't buy it. In at least one case, a witness was hoisted up to a UFO on a chain--something he could feel and hold as well as see. Many times witnesses see technology that is incomprehensible. But just because something familiar is seen doesn't mean it HAS to be illusory. It's possible certain light craft can't accomodate sophisticated stuff, or this is just another way of confusing us--making the advanced ET interpretation look less credible, even when apparent aliens in flying craft are seen.

It's actually more probable that something influenced his perception and created an interactive dream like event. That doesn't mean that the whole event was an illusion, it just means that he most likely influenced the details of what he remembered as having transpired. This is why witness remembered UFO events are rarely identical in nature.When we dream, our dreams can be so intense that we experience the physical result of the acts we are dreaming. No man needs to be told this. It's also a fact the human body can command itself via hypnotic suggestion to stop bleeding from small wounds, and even to maintain body temperatures in subzero climates for considerable lengths of time. There is simply MUCH that we do not understand as yet with respect to experiential reality.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Concerning "robots who try and gey humans out of trees" I very much doubt Shrum, who desperately battled them, thought they were "internally generated." I don't doubt a lot of things observed seem ridiculous for a spacefaring system. But in light of its obvious unwillingness to be revealed openly, it wouldn't be at all surprising if it often WANTS to appear ridiculous, to prevent general acceptance of its reality.

MAN FIGHTS OFF ALIEN ATTACK ALL NIGHT

This has always been a solid favorite UFO case of mine, as it has many others I'm sure. It has much of the extreme classic UFO encounter elements.

I think it's pertinent to quote the last self described portion of MR. Shrum's experience here: "Mr. Shrum where he was tied in to the tree with his military belt near the top, instantly rendering him unconscious. When he came to from that he was hanging from the branch by his belt, with his head and feet hanging down, and his attackers were gone. Mr. Shrum recalls that it was light out at this point, but the sun was not up yet."

It's interesting to note that Shrum just "woke up" before heading back to camp. There is NO QUESTION that something extremely unusual happened here, and that multiple witnesses saw the "mother ship". However the details contained within the account seem like something straight out of 40s/50s era B Science Fiction movie! Details hardly befitting an interstellar intelligence. Holy DR. Satan's Robots J. Allen!

It's obvious that this case bears out tremendous "high strangeness". Who can deny it? Should we throw the baby out with the bathwater as @ufology suggests? No we shouldn't IMO, anymore than we should throw out ANY other case based merely on what we feel is appropriate with respect to the "truth". I have just received the first half (1950-1979) of Albert Rosales's book series on Humanoid Encounters. It's no surprise to me that I will be reacquainting myself with many accounts that I am already familiar with because I have been reading Albert's work online for a number of years now. These accounts are myriad with the preposterous and zany. Many of which are from reputable everyday people from clergyman, to farm help, to dignitaries. Should we also throw these out?

My point is not to lessen anyone's perspective on the matter, or even the veracity of witness reporting. My point is that this phenomenon cannot be summed up in a mere story line narrative. It's much more confounding and complex than that. It deals with an interactive mechanism relevant to the perception of experiential reality, and beyond that, all bets are off. Are we dealing with an external "alien" or "nonhuman" intelligence? Very possibly. Are we dealing with aspects of reality for which we have no given understanding? Most definitely!

 

[Trajanus]

The point has to be made that ridiculous cases in ufology are probably nothing more than fiction and therefore have no bearing on the core subject matter. However, in the unlikely event that some aliens wanted to make an appearance in something that looked like a dirigible with propellers, then as @Trajanus suggests, they must have had some reason for it. Either way, equating these kinds of cases with the rest of the phenomenon is equally nonsensical. So I'm not sure why it's being done. What's the reason?

I don't think we can just ignore or dismiss outright the more unusual cases. Other things being equal, like witness quality, we have to include them in the overall picture. And for the reason I gave this can be done within the framework of ET.

 

[Trajanus]

This has always been a solid favorite UFO case of mine, as it has many others I'm sure.

Sure and there are others less well known.

There is NO QUESTION that something extremely unusual happened here, and that multiple witnesses saw the "mother ship". However the details contained within the account seem like something straight out of 40s/50s era B Science Fiction movie! Details hardly befitting an interstellar intelligence.

Maybe (heck ET could've just wanted a human specimen ) but IMO better examples are known, in which behavior was truly nutty.

It's obvious that this case bears out tremendous "high strangeness". Who can deny it? Should we throw the baby out with the bathwater as @ufology suggests? No we shouldn't IMO, anymore than we should throw out ANY other case based merely on what we feel is appropriate with respect to the "truth".

Lots of people must be tempted to ignore the weirder or nuttier sounding cases, but I don't think that's objective.

My point is that this phenomenon cannot be summed up in a mere story line narrative. It's much more confounding and complex than that. It deals with an interactive mechanism relevant to the perception of experiential reality, and beyond that, all bets are off. Are we dealing with an external "alien" or "nonhuman" intelligence? Very possibly. Are we dealing with aspects of reality for which we have no given understanding? Most definitely!

Complex though the phenomenon is, it is IMO basically rational and has a definite purpose for everything it does.

 

[marduk]

The point has to be made that ridiculous cases in ufology are probably nothing more than fiction and therefore have no bearing on the core subject matter. However, in the unlikely event that some aliens wanted to make an appearance in something that looked like a dirigible with propellers, then as @Trajanus suggests, they must have had some reason for it. Either way, equating these kinds of cases with the rest of the phenomenon is equally nonsensical. So I'm not sure why it's being done. What's the reason?

Proposed Mars rover designs:

Proposed blimp for Venus:

Just because they're low tech doesn't mean they're not simple, efficient, and quite serviceable.

 

[Constance]

Three short lectures on the subject of Evolutionary Origins of Art and Aesthetics, beginning with
Antonio Damasio, Art and Emotions. {note, move the cursor back to the beginning of the videotape if it does not begin at the beginning}

 

[Randall]

CARTA: Evolutionary Origins of Art and Aesthetics: Art and Emotions - Antonio Damasio

Interesting link and associated links. Thanks for introducing this resource

 

[Constance]

Further elucidation, and contention:

 

[Trajanus]

Just because they're low tech doesn't mean they're not simple, efficient, and quite serviceable.

The basic issue is the difficulty, in many cases, of transporting the most up to date gear to a distant world. If you can get the job done with something light, cheap and low tech, it's often preferable. If we have to do this in our "own backyard"--considering the extreme nearness of Mars and Venus compared to even the nearest star--it wouldn't be surprising if a civilization 700 LY away does it on some missions to Earth. At least SOME.

 

[Constance]

For @marduk:

On epigenetics: we need both Darwin’s and Lamarck’s theories | Aeon Essays

Extract:

"The accepted sciences are essential and accurate, but part of a bigger, more nuanced story that expands our understanding and integrates all our observations into a cohesive whole. The unified theory explains how the environment can both act to directly influence phenotypic variation and directly facilitate natural selection, as shown in the diagram above.

With a growing number of evolutionary biologists developing an interest in the role of epigenetics, there are now some mathematical models that integrate genetics and epigenetics into a system, and the work has paid off. Consideration of epigenetics as an additional molecular mechanism has assisted in understanding genetic drift; genetic assimilation (when a trait produced in response to the environment ultimately becomes encoded in the genes); and even the theory of neutral evolution, whereby most change happens not in response to natural selection, but by chance. By providing an expanded molecular mechanism for what biologists observe, the new models provide a deeper, more nuanced and more precise roadmap to evolution at large.

Taken together, these findings demand that we hold the old standard, genetic determinism, up to the light to find the gaps. It was Thomas Kuhn who in 1962 suggested that when a current paradigm reveals anomalies then new science needs to be considered – that is how scientific revolutions are born.

A unified theory of evolution should combine both neo-Lamarckian and neo-Darwinian aspects to expand our understanding of how environment impacts evolution. The contributions of Lamarck more than 200 years ago should not be discounted because of Darwin, but instead integrated to generate a more impactful and insightful theory. Likewise, genetics and epigenetics must not be seen as conflicting areas, but instead, integrated to provide a broader repertoire of molecular factors to explain how life is controlled."

 

[victimized]

If you review alien psyche aware information the status gives a statement. The statement attests by human awareness that scientists on Earth, the Creators/inventors as males are interacting with fake/artificial communications.

We know that science is an artificial state on Earth, it is an introduced application, and it is a human male's choice to apply conversion to natural Earth nuclear material.

The basis of our natural life was supported by the signals/communications of natural nuclear fusion of Planet Earth's own body.

Therefore we already have the information that natural nuclear fusion....not artificial conversion is the basis for the status of evolution and changes to evolution.

The reason we are also aware in modern times is due to the fact that natural life, natural health and the natural psyche was attacked and the condition evolution changed....and an artificial state was introduced.

This artificial state attacks us, and the information states that it involves the study of DNA, the taking of samples of DNA, the reproduction of DNA, the changes to DNA and also that the changes relate to the artificial affect...the alien and UFO manifestation and the changes applied to the Earth soil (nuclear dust) and the stone of Earth (its fusion). All of these conditions relate to the unnatural and artificial/alien applications of the human sciences.

The human psyche and human life is called spiritual and natural and we are not scientists. Science itself was sought in a chemical drugged mind state. The effect of being irradiated by the introduced condition then caused a drug like mind affect in the natural human brain chemistry as cause and effect.

Therefore unlike our ancient occult Shamanic brother who became the occult scientist, our mind/brain does not understand scientific concepts, for we are only aware in life due to symbolism, the teaching of symbolism and the statement of symbolism. Therefore when our mind is affected by the alien/UFO introduced condition, the unnatural effects causes us to use symbolism in the best stated reason that our psyche can reason. This is why the information is not scientific.

The occult scientist who began to study the phenomena affects on the human life, then introduced an atmospheric mind contact...mind feed back interactive program to study the effects of the artificial with the human mind....for they want new resourcing and resourcing of energy has always come about by unnatural and artificial applications. They believed that the human mind was AI....yet the application of AI belongs to machines and the communication/transmitting states of machines.

As they want the artificial UFO conversion signal conditions as a new scientific theory reasoning, they are therefore studying the human life/cell state as an atmospheric interaction.....seeing that the UFO condition is occurring in the atmosphere. They want the human life to actually own the alien/UFO condition and reason that we own it personally on a dimensional level or a level of cellular information.....yet our life does not exist in dimensions, it exists in 1 place in a multitude of information ownership as 1 owned state. We also know that we are born to die, therefore we do not personally own the atmospheric body....and we also use the energy the atmospheric body gives us.......our cells would not survive without this energy body interaction.

The problem with our occult scientist brother is the fact that he wants to now own the atmospheric body as a new resource...so he is trying to data base its information and give it value relating to an owned interaction with his collider. He wants a cell body of plasma, a condition to use the plasma as energy and to then resource and reapply the energy he thinks the atmospheric body and the UFO created....which is why he wants the alien to be the life Creator.

The only plasma type cell states on Earth is found in Nature....the plasma that he wants exists in out of space and this plasma is not organic.

Our occult scientist brother owns a mind reasoning that gives value to conditions where he considers that his own personal life and self will be safe. As he wants to resource the Earth's atmospheric body he therefore has given his own mind false reasoning....for he wants the Creator concept to be "other than" his own personal male human ownership. By having this mind concept he then advises his own self that he will be safe himself whilst resourcing the atmospheric body.

Yet if he cared to take a good look at his own self, his previous reasoning about his male human self being the creator and inventor is correct. As he owns the bodily organs that procreates the species of the human life and cellular ownership as a status, then how does he presume his own person safe in this fake theory he has given our life? We are not an alien and nor are we a UFO....for we live in the atmospheric condition watching both forms manifest and disappear.

We also personally know that the human parents have sex, make babies, we grow into adults and die as a human life. We do not personally own the atmosphere. The other organic state...animals exists in the same condition. If we stopped having sex as a species our life would die out. Therefore where is the "other Creator" of our life that you keep insisting exists?

When a male who professes to perform conversion on applications that exist in our past....he is now reasoning that our human cell state existed in the past as if we began life as a germ. A germ began life as a germ....no human life exists in a germ or any other form of material that you keep ascertaining is the beginning of human life. Our life has no status "elsewhere", as if you are going to own it in the past like you currently do with material resourcing.

 

[Trajanus]

Thanks for that. I thought Lamarck had been completely discarded.

 

[victimized]

For @marduk:

On epigenetics: we need both Darwin’s and Lamarck’s theories | Aeon Essays

Extract:

"The accepted sciences are essential and accurate, but part of a bigger, more nuanced story that expands our understanding and integrates all our observations into a cohesive whole. The unified theory explains how the environment can both act to directly influence phenotypic variation and directly facilitate natural selection, as shown in the diagram above.

With a growing number of evolutionary biologists developing an interest in the role of epigenetics, there are now some mathematical models that integrate genetics and epigenetics into a system, and the work has paid off. Consideration of epigenetics as an additional molecular mechanism has assisted in understanding genetic drift; genetic assimilation (when a trait produced in response to the environment ultimately becomes encoded in the genes); and even the theory of neutral evolution, whereby most change happens not in response to natural selection, but by chance. By providing an expanded molecular mechanism for what biologists observe, the new models provide a deeper, more nuanced and more precise roadmap to evolution at large.

Taken together, these findings demand that we hold the old standard, genetic determinism, up to the light to find the gaps. It was Thomas Kuhn who in 1962 suggested that when a current paradigm reveals anomalies then new science needs to be considered – that is how scientific revolutions are born.

A unified theory of evolution should combine both neo-Lamarckian and neo-Darwinian aspects to expand our understanding of how environment impacts evolution. The contributions of Lamarck more than 200 years ago should not be discounted because of Darwin, but instead integrated to generate a more impactful and insightful theory. Likewise, genetics and epigenetics must not be seen as conflicting areas, but instead, integrated to provide a broader repertoire of molecular factors to explain how life is controlled."

Control.....no such status, but is a status that modern day occult scientists want to gain.......and the only ownership control they have personally is to control their own life choice.

We do not own evolution, evolution exists as a condition that we can make statements about. Evolution happened, and evolution can stop happening when evolution is interfered with.

Evolution on Planet Earth relates to the advice that Earth as a status gives. The basics of its nuclear supported all life forms as a support.....yet the supporting body is not owned by the life form.

The life form....a human male then sought to alter the support of the nuclear and life began to be attacked...mutated and de-evolved.

We stopped applying conversion of the nuclear and it allowed the atmospheric gases to cool and amass.....life then re-evolved.

Scientists once again applied conversion of the nuclear and we now demonstrate the loss of evolution........no control at all.

Evolution is given a status that an applied time condition allows for change.

The scientist wanting to own the condition that evolution allowed to evolve wants an instantaneous controlled condition, which does not exist in the state of reality....so he subjectively reviews conditions of all other species as if he personally owns the other species as a human self.

The problem with the human male is his personal status of wanting ownership by value and evaluating and stating values for the precept of gaining ownership.

The human male only owns his personal life self...and in the status of reality he does not personally own anything else. The conditioning of his reasoning belongs to his ancient concept of life takeover, when he organized his male group attacks on the natural life. Since this attack he considered and valued all objects on Planet Earth....stated that he owned everything and then began to destroy our life.

He now wants to own evolution.

I ask our brother, who does he believe he actually is.....what gives him the personal right to consider information that he does not personally own as if it is his personal property?

 

[wsg752 @ hotmail.com]

NONSENSE!! Meier had a model of a UFO, Adamski was an obvious liar--and probably working for the government (disinfo agent). Trent and Heflin were different.

Ed Walters supposed model was found in the attic of a house,he and his family had lived in.The house sat empty for months while they tried to sell it.The new owner found it while looking for a water line to the ice maker in the refrigerator.It went public when a reporter showed up on his doorstep going”Yo,dude,did you find that ufo model I hid in your attic six months ago?”It was determined the model was made from house plans done by Ed,he was a contractor,before the sightings began.To this day,it is my belief the Gulf Breeze sightings were real

 

[Randall]

Ed Walters supposed model was found in the attic of a house,he and his family had lived in.The house sat empty for months while they tried to sell it.The new owner found it while looking for a water line to the ice maker in the refrigerator.It went public when a reporter showed up on his doorstep going”Yo,dude,did you find that ufo model I hid in your attic six months ago?”It was determined the model was made from house plans done by Ed,he was a contractor,before the sightings began.To this day,it is my belief the Gulf Breeze sightings were real

When the first Gulf breeze videos started popping up I got hold of some documentary tapes that had a video camera expert demonstrate how the object in the video was an iris motor artifact peculiar to the exact model Walters used. Consequently one can only surmise that all the commotion in the video over getting the alleged craft on tape must have been staged. Yet that video got a lot of attention and ultimately by exploiting the situation further with more questionable claims, a book deal too. Based on that, I've got insufficient reason believe the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze UFO case files should be taken seriously.

 

[Thomas R Morrison]

Smartphone owners look down at their gadgets, rather than point them to the skies. Even then, their little cameras, even when capable of high resolution photos and 4K videos, aren't apt to deliver good results at night when pointed at distant objects in the sky.

Has anyone here ever tried to take a photo of a jet with their cell phone? I keep meaning to try that, to get a sense of the picture quality of a known moving object in the sky, but every time I get a new smartphone I seem to damage the lens within the first week, so I can't try this myself.

But it seems to me that it would be very difficult to get a cell phone to focus on a relatively small (30-50ft) object in the sky from ground level. I've tried to take a photo of the Moon with a digital SLR camera that has a fairly large professional lens, and it appeared very fuzzy and small on the image. So I assume that trying to take a pic of something like a fighter jet, without a huge lens and the professional experience to get it in focus as it's passing by, would be virtually impossible for a typical cell phone user like myself, even in broad daylight.

But I'd love to know for sure.

 

[Soupie]

Fmr. Manager of DOD Aerospace Threat Program: "UFOs are Real” | HuffPost

 

[meterobsidian]

This is a different approach in UFO reality. This satisfies my thirst in UFO proofs.