A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[Constance]

Except not one of those things has been found on Mars.

And you know that because NASA hasn't told you so?

And there's no reason to hide it, because NASA's budget would increase exponentially as an outcome of that.

Of course there's a reason to suppress that information, the same reason why the reality of the ufo phenomenon has been suppressed since the Rand Report.

 

[Constance]

Because logic was used to formulate the claim I had made, it is accountable only to logical consistency. Therefore it's only questionable to the extent that the logic can be shown to be in error, and consequently the counterpoint that someone else doesn't "see it that way" is most certainly insufficient.

Would you demonstrate how your interpretion of Libet's experiment is more 'logical' than Libet's interpretation of it?

In specific response to the idea that "subconscious preparation" can be "vetoed by conscious choice": This idea is flawed because logically, from a neuroscience perspective, all conscious thoughts must begin at a subconscious level, and therefore, because the "conscious choice to veto" is a conscious thought, it too must begin the same way. There is no escaping this situation.

Which/whose 'neuroscience perspective' would that be?

 

[Randall]

Would you demonstrate how your interpretion of Libet's experiment is more 'logical' than Libet's interpretation of it?

The logic I was alluding to is not an interpretation of Libet's experiment. Libet's experiment is something that you introduced. I'm using sheer logic that is separate from any particular experiment. I came across it during my own reflections some years ago. It might be considered relevant to some scientific evidence, but I've made no specific reference to such evidence ( yet ). Maybe Libet's experiment is applicable. Maybe not. I vaguely recall reviewing it at some point in the past, just like I recall running across other experiments that seem relevant.

Which/whose 'neuroscience perspective' would that be?

The neuroscience perspective I'm alluding to is just the basic idea that thought is a process performed by the brain, and that the brain is made of many small parts ( e.g. neurons ) ... more here: http://www.brainfacts.org/about-neuroscience/core-concepts/

 

[Trajanus]

Nope. It died during one of the many extinction events that happened between 550M and 300MYA. There is not a clear record of why these happened.

It could have just been an asteroid or supervolcano or something.

Researchers are confident they know the causes of the end Permian and K-Pg extinctions; not sure about earlier Paleozoic events. One may have been due to an ice age.
But a multieyed creature apparently couldn't compete. Had that been the optimal design, given all the instances of homoplasy, it would've reappeared in various lineages, instead of the nearly universal two eye design.

Did I misunderstand -- weren't your pictures of apparent humanoids on Mars?

I never said intelligent life of any kind arose on Mars, or is indigenous to that planet. I argued against Brandenburg's notion for example.

 

[Trajanus]

first, that we do not know how long conditions on Mars have been as challenging as they are today

I've read various scholarly works--Water on Mars by Carr, Mars and the Development of Life by Hansson etc. The former cites evidence for extreme thinning of the Martian atmosphere already by the end of the Noachian c 3.8 billion years before present, and indicates, in effect, the red planet has remained in a deep freeze ever since. Not even the circumchrysean outflow channels are really evidence for a "warm wet" period. Carr wrote that they not only could have formed under present climatic conditions, they even REQUIRED such conditions since only a thick permafrost plug could've withstood all that artesian pressure as long as it did. Based on a similarly realistic overview of Martian history, Hansson wrote that "life on Mars, if it ever existed, almost certainly never evolved beyond the level of microorgsanisms." Mars became, and remained, just too inhospitable for scenarios of an inhabited red planet to be credible.

We have reason to conclude from the evidence of past representative artworks still visible on the surface of Mars that intelligent, human-like life indeed existed there at one or more periods in that planet's history. Moreover, there is further evidence in visible artworks and artefacts photographed by the JPL rovers of more recent artistic production ongoing on Mars in both


There are simply too many similarities between both ancient and modern artefacts visible on earth and on Mars for us to doubt that parallel evolution is revealed in the development on Mars of intelligent and creative lifeforms, beings, like ourselves.

Some people are quick to seize on any perceived similarity between Martian objects and earthly ones to claim there's life or civilization there. This has been going on since the days of Percival Lowell yet nothing seen so far is really convincing. Don't get me wrong I'm no UFO skeptic, but I very much doubt Mars is the source of the phenomenon, which probably originated in an extrasolar system.

 

[marduk]

And you know that because NASA hasn't told you so?



Of course there's a reason to suppress that information, the same reason why the reality of the ufo phenomenon has been suppressed since the Rand Report.

You can look at the data.

Ruins on mars would likely last a ver, very long time due to low surface erosion rates.

 

[marduk]

Researchers are confident they know the causes of the end Permian and K-Pg extinctions; not sure about earlier Paleozoic events. One may have been due to an ice age.

It's possible, I've also read a theory that there was a sudden drop in free oxygen in the oceans.

But a multieyed creature apparently couldn't compete. Had that been the optimal design, given all the instances of homoplasy, it would've reappeared in various lineages, instead of the nearly universal two eye design.

Well, I mean sure. Except that the inability to compete may have had nothing to do with the organism per se except it's need for oxygen.

What I'm saying is that there is nothing in the fossil record that indicates nature had a game plan for smart bipeds.

I never said intelligent life of any kind arose on Mars, or is indigenous to that planet. I argued against Brandenburg's notion for example.

Sorry that wasn't a response to you - it was Constance.

 

[Trajanus]

Ruins on mars would likely last a ver, very long time due to low surface erosion rates.

Some structures get degraded by impacts, or ice abetted creep, but by terrestrial standards the Martian surface is very static.

 

[Trajanus]

It's possible, I've also read a theory that there was a sudden drop in free oxygen in the oceans.

Some time ago, I heard of a study which concluded sharks played a role in some Paleozoic extinctions.

What I'm saying is that there is nothing in the fossil record that indicates nature had a game plan for smart bipeds.

Russell once opined that without a K-Pg, Troodon might've radiated into the niche now occupied by man. Throughout Phanerozoic time, more sophisticated and brainier organisms gradually appeared. They were a tiny minority of organisms of course, but with that sort of trend, I get the impression sooner or later SOMETHING would've radiated into our niche. In any event, what are to we to make of occupant reports in which a human-like morphology is the norm?

 

[marduk]

Some time ago, I heard of a study which concluded sharks played a role in some Paleozoic extinctions.



Russell once opined that without a K-Pg, Troodon might've radiated into the niche now occupied by man. Throughout Phanerozoic time, more sophisticated and brainier organisms gradually appeared. They were a tiny minority of organisms of course, but with that sort of trend, I get the impression sooner or later SOMETHING would've radiated into our niche. In any event, what are to we to make of occupant reports in which a human-like morphology is the norm?

I think that if contacted/abduction scenarios including hybridization are to be believed, there are only three options:
1. They are an unknown contemporary terrestrial hominid species that we are related to. Which I find totally improbable.
2. They are unknown past or future terrestrial hominid species that we are related to. This implies either time travel or long term hibernation. Which I find totally improbable.
3. They are a variant of hominid from a parallel earth. Which I find totally improbable.

However I don't believe a word of the hybridization program.

I think the simplest answer is that we are dealing with one or more post biological species that uses bipedal variants of avatars to maneuver in our environment.

Just like we build submersibles that look roughly fish-like and planes that look roughly bird-like.

Or - and this is a variant of the anthropomorphic principle - only the species that are bilaterally symmetrical and breathe oxygen come here, because it would be a pain in the ass to be here if you didn't.

Bipedalism however is a difficult one.

 

[victimized]

No one 'gives agency to the ufo'. We do, however, reasonably ask the question whether, based on observed behavior and interactions, 'the ufo' appears to demonstrate agency and also intentionality. If we knew what 'the ufo' was or wasn't, we wouldn't need to ask these questions.

We do know what the UFO is, because we have given it a status. It is unknown, and it is a flying object.

The human aware status.....I am aware as a human male/shaman/occultist/scientist inventor of great energy reactions. I applied designs, and gained huge energy reactions, therefore I know by self status....mind, evaluation of thought images gained by my mind that I am correct.

I gave the UFO the review from my own occult/scientific aware mind status as a review.....it is unidentifiable for it comes from the Sun. I do not know the power of the Sun and would never be able to confer the actual power of the Sun....ie Earth is a stone planet...the Sun is not.....Earth has a cold atmospheric gaseous body....the Sun does not......therefore I do not know the Sun.

I have therefore correctly informed my own person that I personally do not know what the Sun UFO is.

I do however have personal life experience and ancient occult literature that previously advised me about being attacked by the unidentified bodies when I converted in the past.....nuclear dust. This is why I called dust holy, the atmosphere holy and vowed to never again apply conversion. Sadly for my own presence, my greed and personal nature I once again converted nuclear dust. Now Earth is being attacked by the Sun.

I advised my own person that the Planetary system was considered to be an angelic system in Hell that as God concepts kept Planet Earth safe from the burning Sun UFO condition....for as the Sun attacked the angelic planetary systems...the planets dealt with and defused the UFO body. Now the Planets are no longer able to defuse the UFO condition for they too are re=heating their own matter.

Earth is now defenseless against the onslaught of the SUN UFO attack....so I should finally tell the public about what I know.

 

[Trajanus]

I think that if contacted/abduction scenarios including hybridization are to be believed, there are only three options:

ET is not an option? As far as I know, researchers assume only an Earthlike planet can give rise to life or advanced life so a similar evolutionary outcome seems likely. (I know you said ET can't hybridize with humans but they can at least contact people. )

1. They are an unknown contemporary terrestrial hominid species that we are related to. Which I find totally improbable.
2. They are unknown past or future terrestrial hominid species that we are related to. This implies either time travel or long term hibernation. Which I find totally improbable.
3. They are a variant of hominid from a parallel earth. Which I find totally improbable.

Fully agree on all three.

I think the simplest answer is that we are dealing with one or more post biological species that uses bipedal variants of avatars to maneuver in our environment.

Some could be androids--part biological. Of course any post biological species from our Universe must be ET.

 

[Burnt State]

Do you mean we may not perceive anything accurately, or just UFOs?

My theme had been while the human mnd does the best it can with the sensory apparatus it has. The up close ufo event is something very unique. Something about the stimulus causes us difficulty in being able to see it accurately. The brain apparently has to fudge the input so that's why some ufo's have propellers or use pulley systems. This is obviously coming from inside the witness as they attempt to make sense of something the mind can not. Perhaps there are EM fields interfering or their substances, colours or geometry are just too foreign or 'Alien' for us to perceive it accurately.

 

[Trajanus]

The brain apparently has to fudge the input so that's why some ufo's have propellers or use pulley systems. This is obviously coming from inside the witness as they attempt to make sense of something the mind can not. Perhaps there are EM fields interfering or their substances, colours or geometry are just too foreign or 'Alien' for us to perceive it accurately.

I don't buy it. In at least one case, a witness was hoisted up to a UFO on a chain--something he could feel and hold as well as see. Many times witnesses see technology that is incomprehensible. But just because something familiar is seen doesn't mean it HAS to be illusory. It's possible certain light craft can't accomodate sophisticated stuff, or this is just another way of confusing us--making the advanced ET interpretation look less credible, even when apparent aliens in flying craft are seen.

 

[marduk]

My theme had been while the human mnd does the best it can with the sensory apparatus it has. The up close ufo event is something very unique. Something about the stimulus causes us difficulty in being able to see it accurately. The brain apparently has to fudge the input so that's why some ufo's have propellers or use pulley systems. This is obviously coming from inside the witness as they attempt to make sense of something the mind can not. Perhaps there are EM fields interfering or their substances, colours or geometry are just too foreign or 'Alien' for us to perceive it accurately.

Why make the assumption that it's internally generated when people don't generally walk around imagining propellors on things?

FWIW, I think the whole airship thing was mostly made up by not-so-honest newspapers, plus people actually building airships. And I don't connect it to the ufo thing at all.

 

[marduk]

ET is not an option? As far as I know, researchers assume only an Earthlike planet can give rise to life or advanced life so a similar evolutionary outcome seems likely. (I know you said ET can't hybridize with humans but they can at least contact people. )

By definition it's not an option.
Look at the odds. What are the odds that the life coming here would use DNA? Say... 1% to be generous?
What are the odds it will use the same DNA for encoding the same proteins? Say... 0.00000001% to be generous (remember, this is a product of natural selection/random chance)
What are the odds it will follow the same family lines as on earth? Meaning vertibrate/invertibrate/plant/etc? So low how could you put a number on it?
What are the odds their proteins would do the same things as our proteins? Meaning... even if you could inject our DNA into their sequence, and it successfully encodes a human protein (which is what genes do), why would the human protein do what it does in humans?
Etc.

It's so vastly improbable you might as well call it impossible.

Fully agree on all three.
Some could be androids--part biological. Of course any post biological species from our Universe must be ET.

I would guess we'll be fully post biological in 100-1000 years. Unless we leave a few humans on earth as some kind of petting zoo.

Maybe that's what earth is. The leftovers kept as some kind of curiosity.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Some could be androids--part biological. Of course any post biological species from our Universe must be ET.

By virtue of what you're stating here, all butterflies and moths remain caterpillars. So no, this is inaccurate. When something is described as "post" it is after the fact, and factually becomes something altogether different. If an intelligent species of ET evolved into a purely incarnate form of infinite post biological energetic existence, it could no longer be defined as ET, just as a man who might have once been a fish is no longer an aquatic lifeform in nature.

 

[Burnt State]

Why make the assumption that it's internally generated when people don't generally walk around imagining propellors on things?

FWIW, I think the whole airship thing was mostly made up by not-so-honest newspapers, plus people actually building airships. And I don't connect it to the ufo thing at all.

I wasn't talking airships. I was thinking of a number of ufo sightings where propellers appear on the outside of the ship. I would suggest their value for intergalactic travel is nebulous at best. Pulleys, beer can aliens, flying hotels, giant tanks, ships with pulleys, robots who try and gey humans out of trees, aliens in the shape of eyeballs and the list goes on of ridiculous imagery that appears to be internally generated at best. It fits the IP theory well.

 

[Trajanus]

Why make the assumption that it's internally generated when people don't generally walk around imagining propellors on things?

Lol, right.

FWIW, I think the whole airship thing was mostly made up by not-so-honest newspapers, plus people actually building airships. And I don't connect it to the ufo thing at all.

There were some airship hoaxes, but there were also strange airplane and ghost rocket reports. We can't just dismiss all that outright.

 

[Trajanus]

It's so vastly improbable you might as well call it impossible.

I meant humanoid aliens not hybridization.

I would guess we'll be fully post biological in 100-1000 years. Unless we leave a few humans on earth as some kind of petting zoo.

Biological material can be manipulated a lot of ways so I'm not sure it will be fully supplanted in the future.