12-6-2009 show

[Kieran]

I hate to call on you on this, Gene, but I have to totally disagree with you here.

First off, I suggest looking at the info posted by Schuyler in this thread;

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/10-questions-for-al-gore-t4337.html

I think most of us agree he is one of our most intelligent/best posters and he sure is not a Neo-Con/FOX NEWS supporter.

I think your post shows and example of a BIGGER problem for all of us. That is at times what a partisan view can do to our judgement. In saying that I by no means do not realize I can do this and every man/woman does it.

What I see in your post there is suggesting the counter to GW/CC is from the Neo-Cons/FOX group and not looking at it in a broader scope. I have been on the record of repping Neo-Cons and FOX for being the liar they are. A bunch fo Trotskyites who took over the Republican party and caused massive amounts of damage to our country for the 8-years of Bush/Cheney. I agree with you there.

What I disagee with is simply turing the point into a partisan issue. I also agree that it's partisan the other way from the fooled right on their reasons for their stances on GW/CC. They are not looking at the topic in a rational manner either.

The problem is the counter to the GW/CC is coming from a core of people who disagree with both parties in large. Without the WWE like poltics that go from left vs. right. That is missed by a lot of people on both sides and the whole time the issue is never looked at in a proper manner.

The whole "Climategate" thing is pretty serious. There are e-mails admitting to fraud. There are e-mails that admit to trying to get people fired who disagree with their view. There are e-mails from people who are funded by US taxpayers for research that are admitting to criminal acts. That is an issue that goes beyond what the left and right are doing with the topic.

It is clear as day, regardless of the debate on science, that there is a set concept for SOLUTIONS to the GW/CC issue. That is taxation via carbon footprints and cap and trade. That sends a RED FLAG up to me right away when you get away from the science and the left/right banter. The fact that the SOLUTIONS are taxes should be more of an issue IMO.

Nothing personal Gene, I just think you are looking at this from the wrong context by doing so in a partisan manner. I hate Neo-Cons/FOX as much as you do. I just refuse to suggest that the controlled left is any better on this issue when they make it about a partisan politcs, do not cover the info about the "Climategate" situation, do not cover that the proposed solutions are taxes, and use pretty vile term such as "deniers" in a manner to describe people who counter their view. Please check out Schuyler's info as it is very useful IMO.

I've read some of the information Schuyler provided and i think it makes sense.I worry, because basically the data is coming from 50 recognised and respected scientists from different corners of the world. There is no majority. we have opposing views, and i think we have to listen to all sides and then have a cohesive message before adopting rules and regulations. Changes in the climate have been happening long before man. Ice ages for example where never caused by man polluting the atmosphere or nature. Industrial pollution as far the history goes is fairly new' couple of hundred years or so.
So the real question is, is this a natural process that the Earth is going through like it has before in the past, or are we indeed as humans polluting the atmosphere.I read an article the other day from one scientist who had opposing view' he said the data was showing a decline rather than a surge.And the emails showed they had been fiddling with the data that was coming in. That show's for me, a real weakness in the argument.

I think the weather is changing and i think we do need to figure out are we causing it. The melting of the polar caps, why is it happening? I am layman to the whole subject, But does that mean the seas are getting warmer there, so melting is occurring or is the sun getting through the ozone layer more and effecting that region of the world due to us polluting.

There is more precipitation happening lately in my country. The records are showing it. So it this cause of Global warming or Global cooling. I'm unsure, because records are created by us and checking data of rainfall through history to see if is this just a natural occurrence would be impossible to verify.


As for the 9/11 attacks, I'm going to stick to my opinion that it was planned, and carried out by Islamic terrorists.I'm still open to the possibility of people with the United States and elsewhere who had intelligence backgrounds where well aware of those attacks where going to happen. And, I'm also open to possibility that members of the White House staff had such knowledge and wanted it to happen.
Bush and his fellow Scum in my opinion are what people are calling the hidden government. Don't take my word for it. It just my opinion. There is some real mysteries about what the family is into, and some of the people they are connected with behind the scenes, well that needs to be looked at more closely. Bush family is connected with the CIA and the Military industrial complex. Two wars happened during the Bush reign, one occurred in the 1990's and the other in later in 2003. Bush and his fellows counterparts are out there in the open and getting elected. What is behind them, not elected, pushing the agenda is what was the most frightening part, and where i believe the conspiracy is regards to who really is in charge.
The power and real power lies in Government, and having a people like Cheney, Bush, who i believe are connected with the so called "Hidden government" (get them elected and who will oppose what we do then). I think if you do research and look behind the face and see through the mask. The aims, ambitions and intentions of the so called Hidden government arrived not in shadowy form, but through the political arena in the 1980's and 1990's with Reagan and both Bushes getting elected.

Kennedy was killed by more than one man. So it is a conspiracy of avoiding the truth. The evidence points to there being other shooter or shooters. This is serious matter for a superpower and a modern society who believes in democracy and freedom. If the CIA Killed Kennedy, they killed him with no authority other than from themselves. If it was to get Johnson elected and help start a war. There is your hidden government right there.

Murky people, not elected, making decisions in so called democracy. If true, that is what America stands for since the 1960's. I've an opinion America has been taken over by people from within the hidden Government. Mainly since the 1960's has America really gone downhill. It has never fully recovered since Kennedy and the reasons are obvious.

The American system is run behind the scenes by a greedy, war graving, money mad elite. They have no regards to soldiers who fight for America. They are Just a tool for them to use. It a pity the majority of the American people have no seen past the lies told.There was never "WMD" in Iraq. The agenda for war happened along time ago, and Israel was wanting a war with Iraq, and America obligated for a number of reasons. Oil was the main reason and having a democracy that was puppet state for the Americans would hopefully in their eyes, delusional really trickle down and other Arabs sates would follow suit.You need a clear understanding of that Region and of their histories and obviously they where clueless to any of that before they invaded. No strategy or planning before you invade a country is a simple no Brainer.

 

[Schuyler]

As long as the subject has come up here, too, I've just come across a wonderful post from 'Watts Up With That' that shows the ways the climate data has been manipulated. This post is not a partisan rant. It is a scientific and detailed analysis of how data was manipulated to 'hide a decline.' The dominant meme this month seems to be that although the scientists have been acting badly, the data itself is still good. Well, the data isn't so good after all.

The Smoking Gun At Darwin Zero Watts Up With That?

 

[pixelsmith]

As long as the subject has come up here, too, I've just come across a wonderful post from 'Watts Up With That' that shows the ways the climate data has been manipulated. This post is not a partisan rant. It is a scientific and detailed analysis of how data was manipulated to 'hide a decline.' The dominant meme this month seems to be that although the scientists have been acting badly, the data itself is still good. Well, the data isn't so good after all.

The Smoking Gun At Darwin Zero Watts Up With That?

It proves that Global Warming is indeed man made! LOL.

 

[pixelsmith]

Here is the latest LEAK. I would say there is definitely a conspiracy here.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text

 

[Kieran]

It proves that Global Warming is indeed man made! LOL.

The article is talking about data, where on one piece of data from a station was clearly wrong showing a decline cooling.It was Artificially increased to show a false warming where the data showed cooling. That is interesting do you not think? Pixel, i was just pointing that out to you. It was not a disagreement.

 

[Mogwa]

The entire controversy surrounding objective reporting by journalists, or rather the lack of it, is a tiresome joke. Neutrality doesn't exist in the media, and it never has. Ever.
That means you and I have to work a lot harder to get at something reasonably resembling the truth by investigating and corroborating information from as many sources as possible, including those we most often disagree with. Not many people are willing to do that. Combine that intellectual laziness with the all too common belief that "everybody but me is stupid," and we have the world as it is: a global state of cognitive dissonance and ignorance.
Anyway, Carthage must be destroyed.

 

[Astroboy]

The conspiracy of idiocy

wake up astroby, if you want to know the truth quit following the sheeple.

I like to count sheeple in my sleep.

You can't wake up a man who pretends to be smart.

 

[Illuminati0n]

Who gives a rats ass about global warming when a lot of us drop dead and wheeze til our last breath due to a (DISEASE) addiction to smoking cigerettes? Then they have to put warnings on packets to tell you, you will die a horrible death.

This is socially acceptable right? What are the benefits? Tax money? Why are they not deemed illegal?

Atleast if you smoke an illegal natural marijuana plant you get stoned.

Obviously someone in this world doesnt give a f**k so why should i care about global warming. What a sham.

 

[Frank Warren]

Greetings All,

Haven't listened to the show, and at this point I'm afraid too!!

IMHO there is no NEWS!! That is, the shows that call themselves "News Programs" don't even rise to the level of cheap imitations (which begs the question: imitations of what?) All that exists today are propaganda/spin machines.

Compounding the irony with these continuing acts of proselytism, is the polls that are highlighted with each partisan propaganda machine; the result of said polls are directly correlated to the flapdoodle proselytized by each entity. If it wasn't so sad, it would be laughable!

"If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain "

Cheers,
Frank
​

 

[cottonzway]

I wouldn't worry about it Frank as most of the rhetoric here is not even talked about in the episode. This display is just people talking about issues they care about more then anything. Sometimes that is in regards to what is considered to be "conspiracies" and other times just what their own personal ideologies are. I think it's pretty healthy.

 

[Roro]

Thanks for providing a new least favorite episode.
Two words, NOT PARANORMAL!

I am politically conservative but I don't trust any commercial media source. I am astounded that anyone who is seriously interested in the UFO topic takes any network news outlet seriously on any topic. If the truth is out there, no one at FOX or CNN or CBS or NBC or even my local news channel has any interest in it. Don't you think if they were interested in the truth about global warming (as Gene apparently thinks some of them are) that they would also be interested in the truth about Unidentified Flying Objects (which I think Gene would agree none of them are, Gene?).

We are all spelunking in our reality caves and have not seen the light of day.

A couple more things:
Bush was a disaster, Obama is a disaster and I have no reason, based on past experience, to believe that the next presidential election will provide a non disastrous choice.

If man could change the temperature of the earth by releasing CO2 then you would thing the rate of temperature increase would have accelerated during the years we increased output six fold. It did not accelerate, it just kept on creeping up as it has since the end of the little ice age and is now at about the 3,000 year average.

Let's try really hard to think people, do you think we can think!

That's all for now.

 

[Crow]

I'm just rooting for a huge ass meteor to slam the Earth. Let the cockroaches sort it out.

 

[Cabal]

End of story, though I'd think charges should be filed against the people who stole the private emails. Would you like it if they did that to you?

That is not the end of the story IMHO. The problem here is a monopoly on force and coercion - namely the governments involved. They are allowed because they have the most guns, to dictate what is truth and therefore how they are allowed to coerce your life. The hacking came after legal FOI process was illegally subverted. Two wrongs do not make a right, but the second wrong does show you that these scientists are not practicing pure science. Who polices the policemen of the world? The fox is guarding the hen house. When the government gets as big as it is now, it has a monopoly in many areas and that is extremely dangerous.

The scientists worked to circumvent the Freedom of Information process of the United Kingdom. One exmaple reproduced in full below (minus Dr. Jones’ contact details):

From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: “Michael E. Mann” <[email protected]>
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil​

The context in the subject header is clearly the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOI), while AR4 refers to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What is most important to know here is that, according to the Taxpayers’ Alliance in the UK, “at least one FOI request on exactly this correspondence had apparently been submitted by a David Holland on May 5th 2008.”

The Freedom of Information Act, however, explicitly forbids deletion of any material subject to a FOI request. The penalty for such a criminal act is a fine of up to £5,000. Presumably being found guilty of such an act, or even suggesting it, would also bring about significant disciplinary procedures at any reputable university. A complaint has been made to the British information commissioner.

Now all this would seem minor if it were not being used to subject the entire globe into cap and trade policies and other environmental restrictions. I am no Republican and no Democrat. Bush lied and people died. Make no doubt that the lies the climate regime make to implement policies that will restrict development and progress will very well kill people. You don't think people in the 3rd world who might use charcoal to heat their home won't die long before they can afford a solar panel?

I am not necessarily a denier that climate change exists. It very well could. The issue is the coercive force of government using lies to push their coercion further. How far will you let them dictate your life in defense of the climate? After all your exhales are harming the environment. That coercion is immoral and I would place a big wager that it will do NOTHING to save the environment. The cap and trade legislation is designed by bankers for bankers. It will line their pockets and empty ours. Another solution is needed. I could talk about solutions I think would avoid coercion, but I won't bore you with the details here.

Point is - the Climate Gate thing smells rotten and is damning for so-called scientists and the politicians connected to them. In their mind the end justifies the means - and realize that applies to ALL areas they get their hands into. It is human nature to be self-interested - business is an example of that. My only point is that because we KNOW that is human nature - we need to make sure that we don't hand the chain for our heart plug (Dune reference ;-)) to anybody else - we need to be on the lookout for our own self interests and defend from monopolies of power. We need competition for our loyalty.

This goes back to my point on "Disclosure" - if the government even knows anything. If you think the government cares whether or not you know the truth, I've got a bridge to sell you. The government is legalized coercion by the money-powers. They will do whatever they can to push their agenda, truth be damned.

 

[bluecat]

Fox news is opinion pretending to be news. CNN looks like a pinball machine. I watch BBC America and encourage others to do so.

 

[jpw.in.wi]

The conspiracy of idiocy

... most people are fucking idiots.

By definition about half the people in the world are dumber than your average person and, we should all know by now, that your average person isn't particularly smart.

Come on now, don't be so conservative! We're ALL "fucking idiots" ... that's right, ALL of us. To paraphrase dads around the world, We think we know, but we don't.

A relatively small percentage of the population has any significant eduction in epistemology or formal logic.

And some of the most educated among us are the biggest "fucking idiots" of all. In my own little town, it was a group of professional, educated, and politically active citizens who about once every two months throughout the latter Bush administration would serve cookies and juice and sponsor video programs and very highbrowed "discussions" for the public about how Bush operatives orchestrated the murder of thousands of Americans on 911.

Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American.

... what about yours, Mr. Above-Average American Guy :

 

[ikez78]

Episode from yesterday goes right back into David and Gene taking a PARTISAN opinion site at face value as a resource on SCIENCE leads to second straight episode having the pool poisoned with gibberish that is off topic and something they (nor I) really know about.

Guys, feel free to blast me or ban me or whatever for not hopping on the global warming religion express but your side STILL can't answer simple questions about the source code in those emails (more important than the "hid the decline" stuff) showing that the earth is not warming at the rate their models predicted and thus they really can't guarantee any of their models are correct.

Science has nothing to do with "consensus." It is about proving yourself through repeated studies and these guys can do none of that nor can they isolate man's contribution of co2 vs. natural co2 or the sun's effect or natural earth cycles or anything other number of factors.

You guys have a show that was once based on very logical discussion but any time you wade into politics you approach it from a very ideological/partisan angle and act as if your beliefs are based on things that are accepted as fact by the country in general. They aren't.

You can continue down this path with the show but I think you'd be taking an excellent show and ruining it.

 

[ikez78]

Also, the reason this topic gets people so ginned up is because the left is asking for more money from the American public for their most recent social engineering product and attempting to shut people up for asking questions. It's utterly disgusting to watch and those in the AGW camp ought to be ashamed of the way they handle "debate."

 

[Apocalypto]

Also, the reason this topic gets people so ginned up is because the left is asking for more money from the American public for their most recent social engineering product and attempting to shut people up for asking questions. It's utterly disgusting to watch and those in the AGW camp ought to be ashamed of the way they handle "debate."

Interesting post, ikez, but don't think for a second this is a "left" or "right" thing. This is a "powers-that-be" thing. They are ALL in it together. It was apt that Gene and David had a show on conspiracy at around the same time that these emails came out, and the Copenhagen talks were about to occur.

This whole "Cap 'n Trade(TAX)", "Oh my God, the polar bears can't swim far enough" joke is being perpetrated on everyone, regardless of their political bent. This has nothing to do with left or right. Don't delude yourself.

As far as Gene bringing it back up again on this week's show, well, that's fine. So will we. Apparently he still trusts Mr. Obama, even after he's proven himself to be just as much a scummy, murdering, lying, cheating neocon as Bush ever was. Obama needs to man up and give back his Nobel Peace Prize. Murderer in Chief. War monger. scum.

No, sir. Not left and right. Just the center of Hell.

Sad, very sad.

 

[pixelsmith]

Interesting post, ikez, but don't think for a second this is a "left" or "right" thing. This is a "powers-that-be" thing. They are ALL in it together. It was apt that Gene and David had a show on conspiracy at around the same time that these emails came out, and the Copenhagen talks were about to occur.

This whole "Cap 'n Trade(TAX)", "Oh my God, the polar bears can't swim far enough" joke is being perpetrated on everyone, regardless of their political bent. This has nothing to do with left or right. Don't delude yourself.

As far as Gene bringing it back up again on this week's show, well, that's fine. So will we. Apparently he still trusts Mr. Obama, even after he's proven himself to be just as much a scummy, murdering, lying, cheating neocon as Bush ever was. Obama needs to man up and give back his Nobel Peace Prize. Murderer in Chief. War monger. scum.

No, sir. Not left and right. Just the center of Hell.

Sad, very sad.

Well said. Did anyone catch the PEACE PRIZE acceptance speech?

Obama: "I am responsible for the deployment of thousands of young Americans to battle in a distant land. Some will kill. Some will be killed." blah blah blah....

Peace my ass.

 

[cottonzway]

I won't make this comment in the other thread on the recent show because there is no reason to hijack that thread, so I'll make it here.

I honestly don't understand the comments early in the Dec 13th show that goes back to the GW issue.

The two things I really don't understand is the way the SOURCE of Media Matters is treated in a manner when explaining polerization in people's poltical views and the comments about "Climategate: and oil companies.

I just see an EXTREME bias coming through there that blocks very intelligent people because of that bias. I say that also as someone who has that same bias towards Neo-Conservatives and FOX but I am able to not carry that over when it is not useful.

If I put up a link to FOX or WND both of you would not take it seriously because of the source. Why would this not be any different when the source is just as bias coming from the other side? That does not seem logical.

In terms of "Climategate" these were likely LEAKED by someone in the group rather then stolen because someone there realized what was going on was wrong. I don't consider e-mails where peopel are talking about how to edit raw data to reflect their wanted conclusions or for when people are talking about how to get people fired because they don't agree with their views to be "talking shop" by any means.

Big oil is behind and FUNDS most of the groups promoting GW and T&T. This can easily be found out with a little research. There are even Youtube clips of commercials showing this. That is a strawman arguement.

Finally, GW is only 6,000 years old and was put here as a test to our faith.