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12-6-2009 show

Forums New posts
Now we have a healthy debate going on. :D

I honestly wish Libertarians and Progressives would agree to meet closer on issues to counter the true liars on the right and left. The world would be a better place.
 
cottonzway said:
Now we have a healthy debate going on. :D

I honestly wish Libertarians and Progressives would agree to meet closer on issues to counter the true liars on the right and left. The world would be a better place.
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There are some reports that the responsible Republicans are realizing that the extreme right wing flame throwers typified by Fox News and its commentators aren't the way to provide a responsible dialog.

I agree extremes at both ends have problems. But right now, the neocons are yelling louder and behaving less rationally.
 
Their base has shrunk by a lot though IMO. A lot of fooled Neo-Cons are now Libertarians/Constitutionalists. They don't have a network to promote their voices as loud, but the swell of support for people who are running on that platforum is very obvious if you look at it. Watch in 2010 when Rand Paul gets in the Sentate in KY and Peter Schiff in CT. The shift will be more obvious then IMO.
 
cottonzway said:
Their base has shrunk by a lot though IMO. A lot of fooled Neo-Cons are now Libertarians/Constitutionalists. They don't have a network to promote their voices as loud, but the swell of support for people who are running on that platforum is very obvious if you look at it. Watch in 2010 when Rand Paul gets in the Sentate in KY and Peter Schiff in CT. The shift will be more obvious then IMO.
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I am thinking that the tea-bagger astroturf phenomenon, the so-called birthers (who don't believe Obama was born in the U.S.) and the other crazies will ultimately be exposed as fakers. This isn't to say that the current political climate or the existing political parties are the way to go. There's too much wrong, but just saying nutty things (Obama is a fascist and then in the next sentence a communist without knowing they are different things or what it all means) doesn't solve anything.
 
Gene, it's not that global warming is fake or a hoax, it's very real, but it's not us doing it, it's cyclical and it's happening to other planets according to many scientists. It's just that the idea that it is man made and that man must be regulated by the UN in order to save the planet from sure destruction seems a bit much to me. There surely is something fishy going on with this and I'm not following the pied piper, Al Gore.

I've always thought the term neocons were reserved for Bush and the PNAC cabal at the time of Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.. not every conservative/ republican or citizen who disagree with with Obama's cult of personality or the religion of man made global warming :confused:

Myself, I am a registered independent and do not adhere to any of the left or right, I just do my own research and make my own choices. I refused to be thrown into the same stockpile because I happen to disagree with certain people about certain topics.

Gene. What if 90% of the global warming researchers are funded by the UN and don't allow any input of scientists or scientific research data that disagree with their goal of proving it's man-made and the time is now to act. Instead they do not debate and say "the debate is over, the consensus is in" when there was no debate in the first place and it's clear that there was no scientific consensus? (consensus amongst themselves don't count) Sounds like a bit of fear-mongering and attempt to control the masses to me.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5086
 
I think some of those neocons are called wingnuts now.

In any case, if global warming research is unfairly slanted towards exaggerating a problem that doesn't exist or doesn't exist to the degree they claim, they are cheating the public and certainly all the countries that subscribe to these results and make decisions as a result.

But it comes down to this: ClimateGate isn't going to disprove global warming. That requires real, rather than fringe, scientists doing real research to separate the real from the fanciful. It's a lot more complicated than Fox News makes it. There are no doubt shades of gray as well.
 
The conspiracy of idiocy

I enjoyed the change of pace in the most recent episode of the Paracast; it is always a great pleasure to listen to Ken Thomson speak.

One point I wanted to make is in regards to the 'third force' that David kept mentioning. While the panel discussion correctly identified that the source of most conspiracies simply boils down to people acting in their own self interest for political and financial gain; David seemed puzzled about what forces might influence people who believe that men never landed on the moon, or the 911 'truther' movement, and other nonsense.

I believe the hosts missed the single greatest contributing factor to these 'reality tunnels'. The biggest contributing factor is the simple fact that most people are fucking idiots.

By definition about half the people in the world are dumber than your average person and, we should all know by now, that your average person isn't particularly smart.

A relatively small percentage of the population has any significant eduction in epistemology or formal logic. Without a basic understanding of the tools by which rational people come to informed opinions about consensus reality the vast majority of the population, with access to the Internet, are capable of creating more FUD than a hundred intelligence agencies put together.

Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American. Most wacky ideas are promulgated through no greater conspiracy than common stupidity.

John

P.S. I actually made this post before reading the entire thread. Thanks for proving my point guys....
 
This is the debate on climate change: scientist with the evidence vs. shouting loon with wild accusations of conspiracy. Listen to the very end when Watson sums up the other guy perfectly.

 
Gene Steinberg said:
I'd think charges should be filed against the people who stole the private emails. Would you like it if they did that to you?
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Oh, give me a fucking break. Those guys are bona fide HEROES for doing what they did. That kind of behavior should be REWARDED.

Gene, Gene, Gene. Get with the program. The green movement is a SCAM. You've been handed the truth on a silver platter, yet you refuse to acknowledge it. And, please, as David likes to say, let's have some intellectual honesty here: Don't try to equate Fox News with that email leak. That would be a really stupid mistake.

And the guest was a fucking dick. He's sitting there dissin' Jesse Ventura's show? The fucking thing hasn't even aired yet.

Everyone's got an opinion; as the saying goes, they're like assholes. I've got mine:

I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, FULLY. I'm not saying "Bush flew the planes into the Twin Towers himself" What a dick comment, that was.

I do not believe the "official" theory. I do not believe the government's conspiracy theory on 9/11. I'm just not stupid enough to believe it.

I believe - FULLY - that the government conspired to make 9/11 happen.

I believe - FULLY - that the government is, in effect, complicit in the murder of all of those people. 9 months into Bush's Presidency. And he has a baby. How convenient. A nice baby. A Gulf of Tonka Toys for baby Bushy.

I believe that the government conspires to commit MASS MURDER. I believe that they are down with that. They are cool with it. I believe that you are a lost puppy if you do not accept that reality.

That fucking Skull and Bones motherfucker. And his clan. His Gang. And his nasty CIA father. I first thought he was a wimp. Like Bill Hicks said. He probably got pissed at everyone calling him that, so he decided to prove himself by blackening Iraq. Women, children, no problem. MAKE EM DEAD.

There's no conspiracy here. Move along...

That whole god-damned Bush cluster-fuck of a family, grave robbers, sneaky, wire-tapping murderers. Who's next? Jeb? Just checking.

THEY DID IT.

Wow, the truth ain't pretty, is it?

Next.

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U.S. EPA Declares Carbon Dioxide a Hazard, Paving Way for Rules - Bloomberg.com

Dec. 7 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency declared carbon dioxide a health hazard today, paving the way for new regulation of emissions from power plants, factories, cars and trucks and other sources.

The decision allows the agency to issue rules to govern heat-trapping pollution that many scientists say may lead to disruptive and irreversible climate shifts.

The EPA announced the decision in a statement.

To contact the reporter on this story: Daniel Whitten in Washington at [email protected]
 
That's not from the Onion, it's real. I posted a small article from Bloomberg but you can get the stroy anywhere. Now look, when something is put forth that CRAZY by the EPA something should go off in your brain that something is not right with the GW/CC agenda.

It's howling at the moon crazy to suggest that carbon dixode is a HAZARD when it's one of the core elements to LIFE ON EARTH. Lunacy....
 
Are you in any position to be telling people to face reality Apocalypto? I lost count of the phrases and lines that Alex Jones repeats to his congregations ad nausium in your posts. You sound clinically brain-washed, seriously.
 
I personally found the YouTube video featuring Lord Monckton recently posted on another Paracast thread ("Lord Christopher Monckton Speaking in St. Paul") extremely helpful in understanding the contrarian view. As someone who studied science as an undergraduate, this debate should be solved solely by the objective scientific facts -- but at this point it seems the science is largely lost (he said/she said). If global warming is in fact not meaningfully caused by humans, and if we get the solutions to this issue wrong, it likely translates into enormous economic dislocation for hundreds of millions (billions?) of already impoverished people. And the unfortunate reality is that poverty often directly translates into local pollution (e.g., Mexico City). As a side note, I personally am a vegan, in part due to environmental concerns.

As for the conspiracy charges centered around the membership of Yale's various secret societies that periodically make their way onto some of these threads, the members of these societies are as diversified in their opinions around a whole range of issues as are the general population. If there are 'conspiracies' happening, it is among those with the most to lose (the super-wealthy & corporations), not bunch of young kids from diverse backgrounds who get together every Thursday and Sunday evening in New Haven for dinner.
 
The conspiracy of idiocy

jratcliff said:
...I believe the hosts missed the single greatest contributing factor to these 'reality tunnels'. The biggest contributing factor is the simple fact that most people are fucking idiots.

By definition about half the people in the world are dumber than your average person and, we should all know by now, that your average person isn't particularly smart.

...Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American. Most wacky ideas are promulgated through no greater conspiracy than common stupidity...
Click to expand...

I find that lots of it comes from people who think that they are smarter than everyone else. They believe they posses special insight or intelligence above everyone else or that they alone cannot be fooled. Typical usage by these people of words like "sheeple","wake-up", and "truth".

It's best to avoid them just like people who hang out at the self-improvement section of the bookstore.
 
ZombieOctopus said:
Are you in any position to be telling people to face reality Apocalypto? I lost count of the phrases and lines that Alex Jones repeats to his congregations ad nausium in your posts. You sound clinically brain-washed, seriously.
Click to expand...

ZombieOctopus can you give me an example of an untruth as told by Alex Jones?
 
The conspiracy of idiocy

Astroboy said:
I find that lots of it comes from people who think that they are smarter than everyone else. They believe they posses special insight or intelligence above everyone else or that they alone cannot be fooled. Typical usage by these people of words like "sheeple","wake-up", and "truth".

It's best to avoid them just like people who hang out at the self-improvement section of the bookstore.
Click to expand...

wake up astroby, if you want to know the truth quit following the sheeple.
 
cottonzway said:
That's not from the Onion, it's real. I posted a small article from Bloomberg but you can get the stroy anywhere. Now look, when something is put forth that CRAZY by the EPA something should go off in your brain that something is not right with the GW/CC agenda.

It's howling at the moon crazy to suggest that carbon dixode is a HAZARD when it's one of the core elements to LIFE ON EARTH. Lunacy....
Click to expand...

I agree, what the hell is going on here ?
 
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