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Why does science have such an issue with the paranormal?

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smcder said:
And what governs the promise of a return on it? etc. etc.
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Someone has to THINK that investing their limited resources in something will gain them something in return. Funds aren't dolled out on a whim most of the time. Someone has to be CONVINCED through evidence that they can accept, that they aren't throwing their money down a hole or giving it to kooks or crooks. They have to be SOLD on the idea.

Write up a business plan that someone will buy into. Create a research proposal that will CONVINCE someone with money to invest to GIVE IT to you to research UFOs, ghosts, PSI, or what have you. What will be necessary for that to occur? What would you have to do to persuade someone to part with their money? Provide convincing evidence that outweighs their concerns, doubts, and other interests competing for that same money.
 
trainedobserver said:
Someone has to THINK that investing their limited resources in something will gain them something in return. Funds aren't dolled out on a whim most of the time. Someone has to be CONVINCED through evidence that they can accept, that they aren't throwing their money down a hole or giving it to kooks or crooks. They have to be SOLD on the idea.

Write up a business plan that someone will buy into. Create a research proposal that will CONVINCE someone with money to invest to GIVE IT to you to research UFOs, ghosts, PSI, or what have you. What will be necessary for that to occur? What would you have to do to persuade someone to part with their money? Provide convincing evidence that outweighs their concerns, doubts, and other interests competing for that same money.
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exactly
 
SaucerKing said:
Did Einstein develop his theories because somebody dangled the big bucks under his nose? Real scientists work out of obsessive love for their subject matter and because they want to get to the bottom of what's true and not and to forge new exciting directions and discoveries. Certainly pressure from academic institutions to get money and grants affects some decisions on what specific areas to pursue at any given time, can't argue with that. And you're right about the unprofitable departments.
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Scientists are no different to other people in the modern age.The world revolves around economic materialism.
Maybe some scientists start out with noble intentions but for how long does it last?.
 
Donnie Vienus said:
Is social status based on affluence a biological mindset?
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In the animal world social status is based on numerous factors like aggression, appearance, and so forth right? Humans are animals.

I'm willing to bet that there are few scientists who view the study of ghosts, UFOs, and ESP as their "noble duty" to mankind above other subjects that are both more profitable and therefore more readily pitchable to investors and their wives.
 
trainedobserver said:
In the animal world social status is based on numerous factors like aggression, appearance, and so forth right? Humans are animals.

I'm willing to bet that there are few scientists who view the study of ghosts, UFOs, and ESP as their "noble duty" to mankind above other subjects that are both more profitable and therefore more readily pitchable to investors and their wives.
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Yes a very few, I agree.
 
The hand-wringing complaint by many paranormal and UFO buffs over the years that scientists should study the paranormal and that the only reason they don't is due to some philosophical or "spiritual" retardation is silly. People wanting them to be above all the materialistic hoo-hah to the point where it just doesn't matter if they eat, keep their jobs, and maintain their marriages is just completely and totally unrealistic.

There have been serious scientists who studied the paranormal and UFOs. Where are they now? Discredited. Marginalized. Dead from suicide. Doesn't make for a very encouraging recruitment video.

Want to know why science and scientists like to maintain their distance? Go to school, get your PhD, work like a slave to get tenure, recognition, and a CHANCE to do what you want and then declare yourself a paranormal researcher and see how that works out.
 
trainedobserver said:
The hand-wringing complaint by many paranormal and UFO buffs over the years that scientists should study the paranormal and that the only reason they don't is due to some philosophical or "spiritual" retardation is silly. People wanting them to be above all the materialistic hoo-hah to the point where it just doesn't matter if they eat, keep their jobs, and maintain their marriages is just completely and totally unrealistic.

There have been serious scientists who studied the paranormal and UFOs. Where are they now? Discredited. Marginalized. Dead from suicide. Doesn't make for a very encouraging recruitment video.

Want to know why science and scientists like to maintain their distance? Go to school, get your PhD, work like a slave to get tenure, recognition, and a CHANCE to do what you want and then declare yourself a paranormal researcher and see how that works out.
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I thought Jacque Vallee did relative well?

You sound bitter. Is this from a personal experience?
 
smcder said:
Surely crowd-sourcing is a possibility for funding paranormal research?
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smcder said:
I thought Jacque Vallee did relative well?

You sound bitter. Is this from a personal experience?
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UFOs were Vallee's side job. He made his bucks in other unrelated pursuits. He has fared better than most, but I think that is just because he was smarter and more cautious.

No, I have no personal experience in that area. If anything you are picking up on the frustration of the eternal debate. Why doesn't science take ghosts, UFOs, ESP and Bigfoot seriously? Really? We haven't figured that out yet? It's like comic book fanboys decrying why their favorite creators have left some company for another. It's the money Jim, not the noble pursuit of art, science, or whatever. It's the basic human needs that drive these things. A "Real Scientist" would do this or that? Oh really now. Real scientists are concerned about achieving something worthwhile. If they don't view ghost chasing and card guessing as worthwhile who is to blame them?

People who think it is such a noble pursuit should probably undertake it for a while. The mine field is difficult to navigate without loosing a limb or two.
 
smcder said:
Surely crowd-sourcing is a possibility for funding paranormal research?
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Say you magically raise a ton of money to study the paranormal. Who is going to abandon other profitable pursuits in medicine (urology I would think), physics, or psychology to study ghosts, UFOs, and ESP? How much did that degree cost?
 
trainedobserver said:
UFOs were Vallee's side job. He made his bucks in other unrelated pursuits. He has fared better than most, but I think that is just because he was smarter and more cautious.

No, I have no personal experience in that area. If anything you are picking up on the frustration of the eternal debate. Why doesn't science take ghosts, UFOs, ESP and Bigfoot seriously? Really? We haven't figured that out yet? It's like comic book fanboys decrying why their favorite creators have left some company for another. It's the money Jim, not the noble pursuit of art, science, or whatever. It's the basic human needs that drive these things. A "Real Scientist" would do this or that? Oh really now. Real scientists are concerned about achieving something worthwhile. If they don't view ghost chasing and card guessing as worthwhile who is to blame them?

People who think it is such a noble pursuit should probably undertake it for a while. The mine field is difficult to navigate without loosing a limb or two.
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No, I have no personal experience in that area. If anything you are picking up on the frustration of the eternal debate.

Very understandable, but not all of the debate exists at this level:

Why doesn't science take ghosts, UFOs, ESP and Bigfoot seriously? Really? We haven't figured that out yet?

 
smcder said:
No, I have no personal experience in that area. If anything you are picking up on the frustration of the eternal debate.

Very understandable, but not all of the debate exists at this level:

Why doesn't science take ghosts, UFOs, ESP and Bigfoot seriously? Really? We haven't figured that out yet?
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You've lost me.
 
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