Where do you fit in as a believer or skeptic?

[Randall]

Yep. Still laughing.

Fine, I really hope it brightens your day . ​

 

[stonehart]

Fine, I really hope it brightens your day . ​

Know the feeling my friend.

That is every one of these threads ever started in a nut shell. I used to get hard out involved in them............. not anymore.

 

[nameless]

 

[mike]

I'm Mike's polar opposite when it comes to belief. I don't think two people could be further from each other in terms of world view. Mike you have a lot of info to post about how bad God is. Why not be fair and post the parts about the love the God of the Bible shows? How about all the parts where He planned way in advance to send His only son so we could also have freedom and forgiveness. I know you won't do that, instead what you will do is post about how could a loving God send his son as a sacrifice for our sins. Am I right? I don't have a problem with that in terms of an eternal agenda. I mean, if you believe He rose in three days and sits at the right hand of the Father( I know you don't).



.

Because there is nothing there, If your neighbour so loved the world he knowingly crucified one of his own kids in the backyard letting him be tortured to death and dying a slow death nailed to a plank, youd rightly want the nutter locked up.
But when your imaginary god does it, you strip a mental gear and proclaim isnt this just wonderful, what an expression of love.

You have been so brainwashed by this cult, that you see a manifestly evil act as good, infantacide as an expression of love.

You even call a book filled with all the vile and unspeakable acts ive quoted "the good book", looking at the deeds within, it should be rightly called the evil book.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil..." (Isa 5:20).

You cant counter such vile examples with what about all the love he has........

What about all the love adolph hitler had for his people, what about all the love saddam hussien had for his , pol pot, idi amin......

Amin's rule was characterised by human rights abuse, political repression, ethnic persecution, extrajudicial killings, nepotism, corruption,

The exact same can be said of the deeds of the OT god

The Old testament god is well documented as unspeakably cruel and vengeful, he will make his arrows drunk with blood.
And your counter is "well look he planned and sacrified his own son to a terrible death" isnt he great ?

"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

What did the animals do ? how completely deranged is this ?.
Hes a bunny boiling psychopath

If you were judging just the deeds not knowing who the actual perpetrator was, you would condemn that perpetrator, but such is your programming that when it comes to god, he can do no evil. Even when the deed is right there before your eyes in black and white an attrocity of the highest magnitude.

Zombies at the 7:00 ish mark

The romans were meticulous record keepers, but no mention of people rising from the grave and walking about.........

Its the 21st century people, time to shed these silly superstitions and obvious myths

Your delusions hurt you personally and us as a species.
As evidenced by this prophecy club, sitting around at lunch, thinking up new ways for their imaginary sky man to "cleanse" humanity.

 

[stonehart]

Because there is nothing there, If your neighbour so loved the world he knowingly crucified one of his own kids in the backyard letting him be tortured to death and dying a slow death nailed to a plank, youd rightly want the nutter locked up.
But when your imaginary god does it, you strip a mental gear and proclaim isnt this just wonderful, what an expression of love.

You have been so brainwashed by this cult, that you see a manifestly evil act as good, infantacide as an expression of love.

You even call a book filled with all the vile and unspeakable acts ive quoted "the good book", looking at the deeds within, it should be rightly called the evil book.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil..." (Isa 5:20).

You cant counter such vile examples with what about all the love he has........

What about all the love adolph hitler had for his people, what about all the love saddam hussien had for his , pol pot

The Old testament god is well documented as unspeakably cruel and vengeful, he will make his arrows drunk with blood.
And your counter is "well look he planned and sacrified his own son to a terrible death" isnt he great ?



What did the animals do ? how completely deranged is this ?.
Hes a bunny boiling psychopath

If you were judging just the deeds not knowing who the actual perpetrator was, you would condemn that perpetrator, but such is your programming that when it comes to god, he can do no evil. Even when the deed is right there before your eyes in black and white an attrocity of the highest magnitude.

Zombies at the 7:00 ish mark

The romans were meticulous record keepers, but no mention of people rising from the grave and walking about.........

Its the 21st century people, time to shed these silly superstitions and obvious myths

Your delusions hurt you personally and us as a species.
As evidenced by this prophecy club, sitting around at lunch, thinking up new ways for their imaginary sky man to "cleanse" humanity.

 

[Tyger]

I

Is being in a crowd of seemingly normal strangers who suddenly break into a cult ritual something to be fearful of? I guess if you're part of the religion there's nothing to be concerned about.

Did you have sound resons to expect something untoward was going to happen in the 'cult ritual'?

But fear is an involuntary response to strange and unusual situations. My rational mind kept me calm because nobody was acting violent or aggressive.

Sounds to me like you entered the situation with a lot of preconceptions. Unless there were news reports at the time of strange goings-on at masses in the area?

Perhaps with repeated exposure I would become as desensitized as the rest of the congregation. But in the meantime, if you can't understand how someone completely unaccustomed to that behavior might feel

It's hard to imagine how a cosmopolitan individual freely entering the church would carry with them such apprehensions, that is all. And all Red Arrow said was sorry that you had been unsettled - but didn't you assume there would be things you wouldn't understand?

and instead of empathizing, fly off with accusations of hate mongering and prejudice, then perhaps my fears were more justified than I thought. So fine, stand by your prejudicial false remarks. You're just proving yourself to be a hypocrite.

No, not at all. It's you who have 'flown off' and Red Arrow has not risen to the bait.

I believe the extent of the 'cult ritual' you saw happening around you was the sum of singing and prayers - some of which were responses to the priest's prayer, and some incense - oh, and communion, you must have seen the consecration and communion - all those tinkling bells - very disconcerting, I know. If there was a choir - and the church was Eastern in any way - it would have been a very lush, sensory experience, what with the icons and gold and what-not.

Someone scientific minded would have asked questions and found out what all the symbolism was about, etc - a little like meeting up with aliens outside their spaceship. Along those lines. That would have gone far to allay any 'fears' - possibly rooted in prejudices, biases and preconceptions gathered and formed over the years. Protestants tend to have the most amazing fantasies about Catholics - not all, but some.

Furthermore if you really believe your allegations to be true, then I deserve to be banned from the forum and I invite you to lodge a formal complaint with the site owner and the moderators. Otherwise I'll kindly ask that you refrain from further attacks on my character. I don't hide my identity here and will defend my reputation.

I didn't read any 'allegations' - you will find that a person's reputation is more in danger from their own reactions (their own words) than anything to do with what (in this instance) Red Arrow said, which has been nothing compared to what I have observed some heap upon posters whose views displeased them, or who don't cooperate with how they like to communicate.

 

[mike]

Five myths about Jesus - The Washington Post

 

[mike]

Terrorist:

a person, who uses or advocates terrorism.
a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon

God's Human Slaughter Fest
Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes – a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)

Jump forward to the 21st century

Today’s quake, however, will strike San Francisco, “cleansing” that city. According to the aforementioned Pastor Joe, who holds a “Prophecy Luncheon” every Tuesday where he and other prophets predict massive disasters while dining, one of his correspondents envisioned, “the Golden Gate Bridge breaking in half and going vertical, a huge tsunami covering San Francisco.”



He said when he shared this news at his weekly luncheon, “one of our sisters (Barbara) told me that the Lord had spoken to her clearly recently. He said that the ‘bowl of iniquity of San Francisco’ was now full to the brim!”

Sigh......... same old stuff


You have pissed off the lord and now you must be punished.......

 

[Randall]

Did you have sound resons to expect something untoward was going to happen in the 'cult ritual'?

No. Like I said, everyone seemed normal and it wasn't all that different from being in a lecture hall at first ( except for all the imagery and candles and religious paraphernalia ), which to me was more like art than anything actually "religious".

Sounds to me like you entered the situation with a lot of preconceptions. Unless there were news reports at the time of strange goings-on at masses in the area?

Just the opposite. I was just along for the ride to please my other half.

It's hard to imagine how a cosmopolitan individual freely entering the church would carry with them such apprehensions, that is all. And all Red arrow said was sorry that you had been unsettled but didn't you assume there would be things you wouldn't understand.

I had no apprehensions entering the church. It's when the incense waving, scepter carrying, dude in all the robes started chanting, and people started kneeling a repeating the chant back to him that I became aware of just how "out there" these people were compared to me.

No, not at all. It's you who have 'flown off' and Red Arrow has not risen to the bait.

You've just defended a hypocrite who attacked my character based on his or her ( whatever ) personal prejudice.

I believe the extent of the 'cult ritual' you saw happening around you was the sum of singing and prayers - some of which were responses to the priest's prayer, and some incense - oh, and communion, you must have seen the consecration and communion - all those tinkling bells - very disconcerting, I know. If there was a choir - and the church was Eastern in any way - it would have been a very lush, sensory experience, what with the icons and gold and what-not.

Oh OK, shall we talk about communion ( Eucharistic Rite ). Here's my favorite part: "In theology, transubstantiation is the doctrine that the substance of the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist is changed, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in reality, into the substance of the Body and the Blood of Jesus, while all that is accessible to the senses ( the outward appearances - species in Latin ) remains unchanged." So the true believers actually believe they are eating and drinking the actual body and blood of Jesus! Yet you think I don't have cause to be in any way concerned? Please. That is probably some of the most freaky stuff I've run across, easily up there with belief in real life vampires, although to be fair, at least we know there was actually someone named Dracula.

Someone scientific minded would have asked questions and found out what all the symbolism was about, etc - a little like meeting up with aliens outside their spaceship. Along those lines. That would have gone far to allay any 'fears' - possibly rooted in prejudices, biases and preconceptions gathered and formed over the years. Protestants tend to have the most amazing fantasies about Catholics - not all, but some.

I had taken art history and knew about religious symbolism, but being present at a live ritual full of people who were seriously acting it out was another experience altogether.

I didn't read any 'allegations' - you will find that a person's reputation is more in danger from their own reactions (their own words) than anything to do with what (in this instance) Red Arrow said, which has been nothing compared to what I have observed some heap upon posters whose views displeased them, or who don't cooperate with how they like to communicate.

A specific quote of mine was replied to out of context here, using the words "vitriolic prejudice", neither of which are true, and which clearly demonstrates it was that person who was actually being prejudicial, if not intentionally inflammatory. In contrast I had only described an actual experience that my other half had found amusing ( and in a way it is amusing, and that is how it was intended ), what's not amusing is that it was turned around into allegations of some kind of prejudicial hate speech, and if you're supporting that, then I'm truly dismayed.

 

[Tyger]

Because there is nothing there, If your neighbour so loved the world he knowingly crucified one of his own kids in the backyard letting him be tortured to death and dying a slow death nailed to a plank, youd rightly want the nutter locked up.

But when your imaginary god does it, you strip a mental gear and proclaim isnt this just wonderful, what an expression of love.

You have been so brainwashed by this cult, that you see a manifestly evil act as good, infantacide as an expression of love.

You even call a book filled with all the vile and unspeakable acts I've quoted "the good book", looking at the deeds within, it should be rightly called the evil book.

You are quite right - of course you are. We think very differently from the time in human history when human sacrifice was a given - not just among the people of the Bible, but among civilizations world-wide back then. The event took place within a time and place and shares the markers of that time and place. But it is because of that event that we think as differently as we do. [BTW the cross as symbol and focus occurred with Constantine - actually his mother. There needs to be a demarcation between what Constantine did when he 'converted' to Christianity and what was really the 'cultus' - adoration - of the Christ up to that point.]

The rest comes across as the rant of a provocateur. I think I can safely guess that you are not a Cultural Anthropologist or Philosopher. Makes it less possible to respond. You assume a monolithic condition of all who perceive the reality of the Christ - and you seem to assume (I may be wrong) that it's all a form of mass delusion perpetrated by clever churches. [If that were so, there would be clear evidence of that, which there isn't.] Belief is considered the lowest form of mental organization in most streams, and rightly so. Personal knowledge - not disbelief - is its antidote.

It is beyond doubt that unspeakable acts have been perpetrated across history by those who have truly lost their way - and even those we consider heroes. They were men of their time - and such ones of their time cast themselves into volcanoes and tore out beating hearts on bloody altars; such ones enslaved and beat on the one hand, and strove for higher ideals on the other. It is a complicated world, no question. It is rare to find a Saint Francis who starts a new page - or a Prince Siddhartha - who steps out from the expected and the given.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil..." (Isa 5:20).

You cant counter such vile examples with what about all the love he has........

What about all the love adolph hitler had for his people, what about all the love saddam hussien had for his , pol pot, idi amin......

Think it through. While posing the question is important, actively seeking the answer is a necessary counter to the cynicism.

The Old testament god is well documented as unspeakably cruel and vengeful, he will make his arrows drunk with blood.

Because that was the time - and it was all 'logical'. It was also a time of tremendous physical bravery and endurance. There was honor in hand-to-hand combat, in acts of physical endurance, sustaining great pain without flinching. There was also a living experience of the ethereal worlds closest to the physical. Death was not seen the way we see it now. The 'veils between the worlds' were permeable to human knowing or sight. We know this from many sources - the Epic of Gilgamesh being the earliest. Legends are evidence of these otherly worlds perceived freely back then.

And your counter is "well look he planned and sacrified his own son to a terrible death" isnt he great?

Whose counter? The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the western terms from the Bible. But these 3 principles are universally found in all sophisticated cosmologies. 'Orpheus descending' into the underworld is a powerful image of a true event. The Son - 2nd principle - descending into the realms of death is the key. How the God got into the realm of death is due to the time and place of the event. The particulars are irrelevant in many ways.

your programming that when it comes to god, he can do no evil. Even when the deed is right there before your eyes in black and white an attrocity of the highest magnitude.

But is it ever God doing the evil? Isn't it a human being doing it?

The romans were meticulous record keepers, but no mention of people rising from the grave and walking about.........

Here is an example of materialistic thinking trying to apply understanding to another realm. The dead do not rise in a material sense. They can't. Not possible. The manifesting of the physical body 'at will' is a far, far initiation - few are even close to this mastery - yet it is spoken about anecdotally. In the 1800's it was claimed Tibetan Masters manifested in bodies to their students in the West while meditating in the Himalayas. I have heard the claim that the teacher Sai Baba was able to do this. Western lore has Christian Rozenkreutz doing this during the French Revolution. It is a long-standing legend about a certain initiation that the one passing this initiation no longer has need of a physical body and can manifest or un-manifest at will. Nothing about a dead body animating back to life. Not possible. If people understood spiritual principles they would know that such fantasies are just that: fantasies without reality. Even magic has its rules.

Its the 21st century people, time to shed these silly superstitions and obvious myths.

A myth is not a fantasy. A myth is not 'unreal'. A myth is a valuable marker.

Your delusions hurt you personally and us as a species.

As evidenced by this prophecy club, sitting around at lunch, thinking up new ways for their imaginary sky man to "cleanse" humanity.

I did not listen to the video, so you are referring to something I have no knowledge of. I agree that we create the gods we deserve and most gods are in the image of ourselves.

 

[mike]

But is it ever God doing the evil? Isn't it a human being doing it?

Ummm, the great flood ?....................

The bible is either the word of god or it is not, which is it ?

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)

Note the first person I, not He

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Now if these quotes came from Idi Amin's (the butcher of africa) Autobiography, you'd be rightly appalled at such deeds
Why then does does god get a free pass ?

Why does god get to both command and personally butcher humans and animals alike and not be judged a monster ?

In order to rationalise this contradiction you have to make all these convoluted excuses for the perpetrator of these deeds

 

[mike]

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

How can you possibly support this obviously homocidal maniac ?

If the bible is as claimed the innerrant perfect word of god then how does this

no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

Translate to kind and loving ?

It doesnt does it, actions speak louder than words as they say

According to the "word of god" he has both commanded and personally butchered men, women, children and animals, whenever he has a temper tantrum.
According to the "word of god" he personally sanctions rape, murder and slavery.......

Thats not good, thats evil and woe be upon you who fail to see it

 

[mike]

There can be no doubt that the Bible does claim to be the very Word of God. This is clearly seen in Paul’s commendation to Timothy: “… from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
The term “revelation” simply means that God communicated to mankind what He is like

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html#ixzz2gu96Ug1t

And here is what HE is like..........

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)


(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Rape in the Bible

 

[trainedobserver]

Deities are some of the most reprehensible fictional characters the imagination has dredged up from the darkness of mankind's primal fears and hopes. The pursuit of spiritual experiences and "enlightenment" are perhaps the cruelest jokes mankind has played on itself. The universe doesn't give a rip what humanity thinks, believes (about evil, good, or anything else), or does. It seems to be about that simple.

If one has the stomach and time for it this 3 hour or so mash up of U.G. Krishnamurti pretty much sums it all up. It's a terrible recording, periods of silence are questions being asked that you can't hear. I think the title says it all. Give UP! - U.G.Krishnamurti

I believe people see Unidentified Flying Objects, ghosts, and other thing of that sort. I've come to think none of it is what it appears to be nor is it the generally accepted interpretations of E.T.s, spirits, and so forth.

 

[Wade]

For my part I just wonder how we got from a God that was all too happy to get medieval on mankind's ass for various transgressions in the old testament to giving up his only son ( because he so loved the world you know) in the New Testament. Perhaps God found religion ? If he was was of us mortals he would probably be diagnosed as being bi-polar.

 

[Tyger]

Ummm, the great flood ?....................

The bible is either the word of god or it is not, which is it ?

Note the first person I, not He

Now if these quotes came from Idi Amin's (the butcher of africa) Autobiography, you'd be rightly appalled at such deeds
Why then does does god get a free pass ?

Why does god get to both command and personally butcher humans and animals alike and not be judged a monster ?

In order to rationalise this contradiction you have to make all these convoluted excuses for the perpetrator of these deeds

I am not a biblical scholar, and I couldn't win Jeopardy in the 'Bible Quotes' category if my life depended on it. This only I am aware of - that the first 5 books of the old testament (I believe it is 5) were written down by Abram (aka Abraham) - who was a former High Priest (read: Initiate) out of the Sumerian City of Ur. He was basically recounting the cosmology from the Sumerians. It is why the Flood story in the Bible and the Sumerian story of Utnapishtam so greatly resemble each other. Abram's set-task (mission) with the tribes of the Sinai Peninsula was specific and he sculpted the story accordingly.

[Aside: In the Genesis story the designation for the creator of this world is actually plural - Elohim - and is not the 'Father God' (Brahma in Sanskrit). These terms must be understood as being very exact - ancient equivalent of 'scientific terms'. Esoterically, it is understood that the Christ Being is one of those Elohim. Why and how it was that one of the Elohim - the 'Anointed One' - made the decision to 'descend to earth' to experience death in the very creation created - is extant and is available in esoteric sources, but I can relate it if anyone is interested, always remembering that the story cloaks as well as reveals.]

Much of the ancient stories - Old Testament Bible included - have certain assumptions woven into them that no longer apply to the modern reader, making modern interpretations skewed. One of those assumptions - and its a big one - is a world animated with living beings beyond the physical. Your concerns over 'funadmentalist' and 'literal interpretations' of the bible are warranted imo (I say 'imo' because I am well aware that I hold no 'authority' in these matters. I speak only from years of scholarship - with only a partial degree of personal knowledge in these areas).

If one is cognizant of other entities as (lawfully) influencing activities in the earthly realm, one is also aware of their 'responsibility' for natural events - and how humans factor into those events. The 'gods' of those times were generally tribal gods. The Hebrews were unique in that they made allegiance to only one god - Jehovah - but Jehovah was still a tribal god. Jehovah is not Christ, is not Brahma, is not Osiris - Jehovah was a particular Being 'overseeing' the Hebrew people as it was being forged in the desert by Abraham. The biblical references to this god's instructions are very much within the context of those times of tribal gods. It is a mistake to read the old testament bible as a blueprint for 'good living'. There was sound reasoning behind the Catholic Church's prohibition against allowing the general populace to have access to reading the bible - it can be easily misapplied - as we are seeing. [I do not subscribe to prohibiting books - just indicating that there were understandable rationales for 'protecting' people from the bible, as well as despicable rationales for doing so.]

 

[Tyger]

How can you possibly support this obviously homocidal maniac ?

If the bible is as claimed the innerrant perfect word of god then how does this

no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

Translate to kind and loving ?

It doesnt does it, actions speak louder than words as they say

According to the "word of god" he has both commanded and personally butchered men, women, children and animals, whenever he has a temper tantrum.
According to the "word of god" he personally sanctions rape, murder and slavery.......

Thats not good, thats evil and woe be upon you who fail to see it

Quite so - but the god of the old testament is the tribal god Jehovah - just as bloody and god-awful as any of the Roman gods or any other you care to name. Jehovah is not an outlier by any means. Jehovah is not Christ (the kind and loving bit). The event that is masked behind the Christ event brought in a whole different way of being - hard to see because of what happened in the squash between the fall of Rome and the actions of Constantine, that then set into motion an institutional, legalistic 'church' replacing Rome.

 

[Randall]

... The 'gods' of those times were generally tribal gods ... There was sound reasoning behind the Catholic Church's prohibition against allowing the general populace to have access to reading the bible - it can be easily misapplied - as we are seeing. I do not subscribe to prohibiting books - just indicating that there were understandable rationales for 'protecting' people from the bible, as well as despicable rationales for doing so ...

So it sounds like you accept that the Bible is essentially mythology, and that in the past those who were responsible for passing along those myths knew that, but ever since the improperly informed populace got their own hands on a copy ( courtesy of Gutenberg and the Gideons ) people have started interpreting the Bible literally and incorrectly as if it really were the indisputable word of God? That sounds like a completely reasonable ( but incomplete ) viewpoint.

 

[Tyger]

This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Rape in the Bible

Quite so - and remember, you think the way you do, judge the way you do, because of the impact of a teacher - or line of thought from out of the Essenes, however you conceive it - 2,000 years ago. The impact of the Christ - or of any human Initiate of a particular status, like the Buddha - invariably has brought a different sensibility and way of living than was the norm in ancient and - unfortunately - not so ancient times. At least now we condemn the actions and recognize that those who so engage are 'sick'.

 

[Tyger]

So it sounds like you accept that the Bible is essentially mythology, and that in the past those who were responsible for passing along those myths knew that, but ever since the improperly informed populace got their own hands on a copy ( courtesy of the Gutenberg and the Gideons ) people have started interpreting the Bible literally and incorrectly as if it really were the indisputable word of God? That sounds like a completely reasonable stance.

No, the bible is not mythology. Myths are markers - they are a precise language albeit using human language to translate the meaning of that other language - that describes an experience. An ancient myth is not a fantasy. We currently use the terms myth and fantasy interchangeably. In fact we use myth, fantasy and imagination as though they are all synonymous with tall tales. They are not. Myth and the imagination are distinct from fantasy in this context.

People have begun interpreting the bible literally and incorrectly - with resulting problematic results. However, for those with the a certain capacity awakened, the language of the bible can be penetrated. The old testament bible is not the 'indisputable word of God' but of Initiates of considerable standing and hence to an ancient man may as well have been 'God'. One must also keep in mind that no one was literate in ancient times except the priestly caste. These documents were read under very specific conditions by particular people. This gets complicated because the spiritual world is not all 'sweetness and light' - though we need to step gingerly here. Without adequate context, much can be misunderstood.