"welcome to the dulce base circus!"

[trainedobserver]

Somehow or other, you're missing my point or I'm failing to communicate.

Or ... I've taken off on a tangent as I sometimes do to make some point that I've been thinking about that perhaps only has a passing relevance to the thread in which I'm posting.

 

[paraschtick]

Some thoughts:

(1) If aliens built anything on this planet, then it probably would be the pyramids at Giza. My god when you look at their dimensions and the tolerances involved etc etc etc ... they do boggle the mind regardless of what engineers say (so there ) ... not saying they did of course ... build them ... that is. The pyramids (at Giza) are startlingly amazing architectural wonders.

(2) As people have stated already. Why on earth would aliens use cuneiform?? Wouldn't they be more into some sort of hi-tech hologrammatic glyphs or telepathy rather than carving symbols into rock??? But then again they are aliens, and aliens by the very defiinition of the word are ... alien . So maybe they were really into rock in a big way (see pyramids).

(3) Interesting how Coppens stole some stuff from Greg's book. Hmm ... another supposed researcher is starting to look a bit dodgy in my mind ...

(4) Dulce ... what a load of BS

Kind regards

paraschtick ... running away from the herds of sheeple at great speeds since 1967BC ...

 

[Martina]

(2) As people have stated already. Why on earth would aliens use cuneiform?? Wouldn't they be more into some sort of hi-tech hologrammatic glyphs or telepathy rather than carving symbols into rock???

Cuneiform was not carved into rocks, it was impressed upon clay tablets. It seems to have originated in the middle Uruk period, circa 3400 BC, according to some in Dilmun, and was the earliest form of writing we know of.

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

Some thoughts:

(1) If aliens built anything on this planet, then it probably would be the pyramids at Giza. My god when you look at their dimensions and the tolerances involved etc etc etc ... they do boggle the mind regardless of what engineers say (so there ) ... not saying they did of course ... build them ... that is. The pyramids (at Giza) are startlingly amazing architectural wonders.

Well certainly the pyramids are great architectural and archaeological wonders, and we would have trouble equaling them with modern construction methods, but I don't think we can say that proves that aliens built them, and we don't see any flying saucers in the hieroglyphs with massive stone blocks dangling from them either.

I think had aliens been so involved with the Egyptians of that day and age as to have built the pyramids for them they would have said something about it in the records they left behind, and they did not.

 

[Kandinsky]

Yes he is, very much along the lines of Von Daniken, and he's seizing on the lack of any historical evidence of civilizations predating Sumeria that had achieved their level of civilization in order to posit alien intervention in human affairs. It worked for Von Daniken, why not for Sitchin? Aliens built the pyramids dontcha know!

Daniken is a proven liar, hoaxer, embezzler and fraudster...a sequence of criminal charges and jail time. He brings nothing at all, but he can be a good stepping stone to an interest in academic history in the same way Edgar Cayce was to Mark Lehner.

Sitchin is really writing a space opera that doesn't stand any scrutiny and nor should it. If people didn't take it so literally and insist that it's true, we wouldn't even need to discuss it. A long while back, he was offered a challenge. He was invited to translate a Sumerian tablet that hadn't been published anywhere previously...no reply.

 

[Red]

I like the point that someone made earlier in this thread that disinfo campaigns may be happening all the time and as training exercises for operatives.

I remember someone making the point that maybe Benowitz discovered something unwittingly (not necessarily related to UFOs either) and that Doty used Dulce as a red herring to thoroughly throw Benowitz off the track.

If this is true, what use would it do to use the same red herring twice; this time on Sanchez? Of course, Roswell has been beaten to death and Dulce is the fast track to incredulity.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

As James Jesus Angleton (director of CIA's Counter Intelligence Department during the sixties) once said "deception is a state of mind and the mind of the state". The intelligence agencies involvment in UFO disinformation may have more to it than just training purposes. It's important for a government to keep their citizens believing that they are in control and that they know more than everybody, even if that is just a lie. Tales of crashed saucer retrievals and secret facilities where aliens are kept allow such illusion of power to be maintained, at least with part of the UFO community. I'm always suspicious of people claiming to know much about governmental UFO secrets without presenting some kind of evidence to support that.
I often think that if some real and honest insider ever comes forward with some new and really secret information we won't be able to recognize it as so. After many decades of lies and fake stories, people's patience has been worn out. Maybe that's the original purpose of all these uncanny tales of aliens and government veils: to make the subject so unbelievable that, when facing real information, the community will immediately reject it as a lie.

 

[tyder001]

Daniken is a proven liar, hoaxer, embezzler and fraudster...a sequence of criminal charges and jail time. He brings nothing at all, but he can be a good stepping stone to an interest in academic history in the same way Edgar Cayce was to Mark Lehner.


Thanks Kandinsky. I had not heard about Daniken and legal troubles. I don't know if he believes what he says or not but I have never bought it. That said I do find some of the paintings of old Europe and the stone carvings "interesting." I also haven 't read much about Mark Lehner. But if he is another "new age" guru then I don't really need to. I do think Cayce was honest. Which is not the same as saying he was right. If you can cut away the "followers" and the "debunkers" and just look at his history he had a very interesting life experience. Somtimes as humans we expect to much from our scripture and our science and our fellow humans. The final all holy and logical and right "answer" will always fall short because there is always another question. But, that is for other threads. I learn alot from just reading and then doing my own "armchair" research.

 

[trainedobserver]

I often think that if some real and honest insider ever comes forward with some new and really secret information we won't be able to recognize it as so.

I think that has already happened and his name was Bill Moore. Moore told us that the intelligence community used the UFO phenomena and "community" as a tool to protect "real" information. He told the UFO community they had been sold a pack of lies by military counter-intelligence operators and the UFO community largely balked.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

I think that has already happened and his name was Bill Moore. Moore told us that the intelligence community used the UFO phenomena and "community" as a tool to protect "real" information. He told the UFO community they had been sold a pack of lies by military counter-intelligence operators and the UFO community largely balked.

I agree with the idea that counter-intelligence creates cover stories to hide the truth. That's their job after all. The essential problem remains nevertheless: what truth are they hiding?
With regards to Bill Moore I don't doubt his good intentions (I never met the man, so I base my opinion on his writings). But the fact is that things like the infamous Majestic 12 documents may have also been used as an instrument of disinformation. The willingness to find the truth (or should we say a truth?) is a feeling that organized groups and/or intelligence agencies can easily use to manipulate a person. This is an aspect that frustrates me in the world of UFO investigation. The construct of lies and deceiving information that surrounds it is permanently corrupting the original phenomenon and making it increasingly difficult to approach. Extreme caution is all I can suggest!

 

[trainedobserver]

But the fact is that things like the infamous Majestic 12 documents may have also been used as an instrument of disinformation

I think that the Majestic 12 documents are most likely part of the psyop.

The construct of lies and deceiving information that surrounds it is permanently corrupting the original phenomenon and making it increasingly difficult to approach.

It makes it difficult to understand what the "original phenomena" actually was/is in the first place.

 

[Kandinsky]

It makes it difficult to understand what the "original phenomena" actually was/is in the first place.

No matter what it was, it was a damn sight more straightforward. Descriptions of physical craft and radar returns, international investigations and 'official' reports. For those few short years until maybe 1952...the subject was easier on the imagination.

If we walked away and never held a thought about the 'UFO enigma' ever again, would our lives be any worse off? Who knows?!

 

[Facius_Cardan]

If we walked away and never held a thought about the 'UFO enigma' ever again, would our lives be any worse off? Who knows?!

Our curiosity would probably be oriented towards other enigmas, at least for those who have a penchant for the unexplained. But, after all, the people who should really be spending time thinking (and working) on the UFO theme have always disregarded it. That's what makes it such a confused and confusing mess. Everyone has hypotheses, theories and even certainties, but all they do is make the problem even more murky.

Damn, why don't I focus my attentions on down to earth subjects?