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Vito Saccheri Moon Show Special


Decker

Administrator
Staff member
The following radio show with Vito Saccheri took place in November 1995, and is in my opinion, one of the most amazing shows you will ever hear. It is not because I was the host or even because of who was my guest, but because of the information that was divulged during the broadcast.

I first really became interested in Lunar research in late 1991-early 1992 because of a guest I had on in the very early days of my radio show, UFOs Tonite. I began the radio thing with a legendary TV/Radio guy in Los Angeles, Jim Hawthorne, sometime in Sept. of 1991. Hawthorne went back to the early days of TV in LA (early 1950’s) and at the time (1991) he was retired but liked doing radio, liked UFOs and got us a spot at KIEV-Glendale. Within a couple of months we had a huge weekly audience listening to our “The UFO Show.” We weren’t making any money at it but it was fun and I got some really big guests on. In early January of “92” Hawthorne decided he had enough and suddenly quit. I tried to get the station interested in continuing the “UFO” show but they weren’t interested. However, one of the guys that worked at KIEV also was an exec at CRN, which was a national broadcast center going out over cable TV nationwide. They asked me if I were interested in continuing with them and I said yes. UFOs Tonite was launched.

We ran until July 1996 and I had a huge following all across the US. As a matter of fact (and this is if you are ever asked the question in a Trivia contest) my wife Vicki and I were married on my show in December 1993! Names from Hollywood, all across the paranormal and of course UFO research were all interviewed on my show. I interviewed former Asst. Secretaries of Defense, Congressmen, Hollywood Directors and Producers (for example one was Bob Wise, who directed the original “The Day the Earth Stood Still”, “The Andromeda Strain” and “Star Trek-The Movie”.) I had shows where the person being interviewed hung up on me … Phil Klass. Hell, I even had Howard Stern fans call me up … Ba Ba Boo-ey. (As an aside, Stern mentioned me during one broadcast, we both had been on “A Current Affair” during the same broadcast … if I recall. At any rate I got hooked on the Moon stuff during all this.

Someone told me to find a copy of “Somebody Else Is On The Moon” by George Leonard and I mentioned this on the air. A lunar researcher named Jim Sylvan called me at UFO Magazine then sent me some photos he got from NASA that Leonard mentioned. Now I was really hooked and I started digging quietly.

I first heard about Vito roughly a year prior to him coming on my show from some people in Houston. (I had a lot of fans and listeners there) He had shown up at some local MUFON meeting and told them the incredible story you are about to hear. I finally got in touch with him and invited him to come on UFOs Tonite to tell his story. About a year or so later I was to discover one of the most amazing lunar photos you could hope to see (from a NASA un-manned lunar probe in 1966) that I’ve pretty much kept under wraps since then. It was this interview with Vito and my NASA photograph that launched this Moon Special that I have been working on with Bob Kiviat.

Vito is a Petro-Chemical engineer and at the time (1979) was asked to shepherd around another guy with a different company that Vito’s company worked with. This other guy got up to Houston from his company in Venezuela and after he and Vito got acquainted asked Vito if he had ever heard of George Leonard? This began a 3 week odyssey with these two guys and NASA in order to see “our public Moon photos.”

This show is in two parts marked below. After you hear Hour 01, click on Hour 02. I will be interested in hearing any comments and remarks you all have.

Remember, this was UFOs Tonite, not Dark Matters Radio.
Decker

Hour 01
https://www.theparacast.com/darkmatters/VitoSaccheri01.mp3

Hour 02
https://www.theparacast.com/darkmatters/VitoSaccheri02.mp3


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Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Jesus christ Don!! You expect me to sleep after listening to that?

So, the first thing that strikes me is that this Vito guy sounds like hes telling the truth! I'd put money on it. The only time I thought something sounded a bit off was when he told the part of the story where he and his client were directed to the library... but they were allowed to go alone! No escort! Although this still seems kinda weird to me, I can accept it based on the idea that NASA was trying to give them the run around - and these two showing up at building 31B would have only one outcome.

So Don, around 13-14yrs later, how does this story sit with you now? Do you still believe Vito to be a truth teller? Has any new info ever emerged that might substantiate the story? How 'bout the client "Lester Howes", did he ever come forward?

The Lunar and Planetary Institute... at the time this wasn't known to exist? I see they a website now.

Don at one point in the interview you mentioned Donna Hare. I find this extremely interesting. So basically 6 years before the Greer press conference this woman named Donna Hare was telling you the exact same story she told at the press conference. How credible did you find her when you interviewed her?

As you can probably tell, I (like yourself) find this whole Moon subject extremely fascinating. The entire UFO issue is interesting of course, but theres something so tangible and enticing about the possibility of artificial structures on our moon. Looking at this whole thing, the phrase that comes to mind is "where there's smoke, there's fire"... and there sure seems to be a lot of smoke. Even that guy who called you up and claimed to be a radio guy who heard a transmission on the wire as young man. Something to the effect of "...the Lunar Orbiter has photographed human-made structures in mare crisium crater" (I could be wrong on the crater name), and then he heard nothing more about it.

Anyway, good stuff Don. Thanks for taking the time (Tks to Gene too for hosting), and I look forward to more.

BTW - I want a Paracast interview with you, Vito, Donna Hare, and Karl Wolf (Disclosure moon structures guy - BTW Don, what do you make of Wolf?)

 

Decker

Administrator
Staff member
Jesus christ Don!! You expect me to sleep after listening to that?

So, the first thing that strikes me is that this Vito guy sounds like hes telling the truth! I'd put money on it. The only time I thought something sounded a bit off was when he told the part of the story where he and his client were directed to the library... but they were allowed to go alone! No escort! Although this still seems kinda weird to me, I can accept it based on the idea that NASA was trying to give them the run around - and these two showing up at building 31B would have only one outcome.

So Don, around 13-14yrs later, how does this story sit with you now? Do you still believe Vito to be a truth teller? Has any new info ever emerged that might substantiate the story? How 'bout the client "Lester Howes", did he ever come forward?

The Lunar and Planetary Institute... at the time this wasn't known to exist? I see they a website now.

Don at one point in the interview you mentioned Donna Hare. I find this extremely interesting. So basically 6 years before the Greer press conference this woman named Donna Hare was telling you the exact same story she told at the press conference. How credible did you find her when you interviewed her?

As you can probably tell, I (like yourself) find this whole Moon subject extremely fascinating. The entire UFO issue is interesting of course, but theres something so tangible and enticing about the possibility of artificial structures on our moon. Looking at this whole thing, the phrase that comes to mind is "where there's smoke, there's fire"... and there sure seems to be a lot of smoke. Even that guy who called you up and claimed to be a radio guy who heard a transmission on the wire as young man. Something to the effect of "...the Lunar Orbiter has photographed human-made structures in mare crisium crater" (I could be wrong on the crater name), and then he heard nothing more about it.

Anyway, good stuff Don. Thanks for taking the time (Tks to Gene too for hosting), and I look forward to more.

BTW - I want a Paracast interview with you, Vito, Donna Hare, and Karl Wolf (Disclosure moon structures guy - BTW Don, what do you make of Wolf?)

Vito's story stood the test of time. There was a lot that happened after this show ran, it would take more time than I have to relate it here.

I tried to track Lester down, and as a matter of fact I spoke to Vito the first of this year and asked him about Lester. Vito had lost contact with him. As far as Donna Hare, yes I interviewed her long before she got hooked up with Greer and Co. I will root around and see if I can upload that show, but when I spoke to Donna, she came across as very truthful. Of course I wasn't there but when I interviewed her I believed her story. Also, you must understand that Vicki and I had frequent contact with various folks in NASA back then, in connection with UFO Magazine. I saw and witnessed NASA folks all across the spectrum ... folks that had a quiet interest in all this (and couldn't talk publicly) and the rabid deniers of any and all dealing with UFOs and the like.

I've known Karl Wolf for many years. I detailed Karl's story in UFO Magazine many years ago. For awhile he and I worked together on a Moon project. I absolutely took Karl as 100 % truthful and honest with his story ... for a lot of reasons. (And as an aside, Karl told me later he was damned regretful he ever allowed himself to be a part of the Greer dog and pony show.) FWIW

Decker
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Decker

Administrator
Staff member
Gareth, after I dropped you a note I realized that I didn't address one thing you mentioned so I wanted to correct that oversight. (And ... it has a historical footnote..)

You mentioned "the guy who called up saying he was a radio guy." Well, he certainly was and you may be aware of him even though you didn't know it. His name was Chuck Shramek, and Chuck was a long time listener of mine. ( I even talked about Chuck in my UFO goodbye letter.)

Chuck was the amateur astronomer that (via his telescope and CCD camera) photographed the "companion object" to the Hale-Bopp Comet and sent it to Art Bell way back in the 90's. (Geeze, was it 1996? Think so.) He lit a firestorm (not intentionally) that led to the Heaven's Gate suicide. All the wacko's joined in ... Courtney Brown, Ed Dames, Lee Shargal, Whitley (who tried to quell it on Larry King Live) and of course the ringleader Art Bell. All Chuck did was report on the odd thing he photographed but he ended up taking tons of heat over it.

I "knew" Chuck from my radio show, he often called in ... and I gotta tell you, I really-really liked Chuck. He was funny as hell and always a joy to talk to. Chuck died in May, 2000 from cancer. I was really hit when I heard about it. The following links will give you some insight into Chuck. First the Wikipedia link, then my take on Chuck when I heard he died, then some cached webpages that Chuck had up prior to his death. All I can say at this point is what I wrote then.... I miss Chuck.

Wikipedia
Wikimedia Error

My Eulogy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9923/chuck.html

Chuck's Web pages
http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/mirrors/www.neosoft.com_cshramek/

Decker
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Vito's story stood the test of time. There was a lot that happened after this show ran, it would take more time than I have to relate it here.
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No probs. Maybe on a Paracast interview or something some day.

Do you know if anyone ever tried to do what Vito and his client did?

Also, something that has been bothering me, why the hell did NASA show these guys ANYTHING? They could have just claimed the photos didnt exist and that would be that. Were they worried about a law suit, or media interest?
 

Decker

Administrator
Staff member
No probs. Maybe on a Paracast interview or something some day.

Do you know if anyone ever tried to do what Vito and his client did?

Also, something that has been bothering me, why the hell did NASA show these guys ANYTHING? They could have just claimed the photos didnt exist and that would be that. Were they worried about a law suit, or media interest?
Either MUFON or HUFON in Houston tried to follow Vito's footsteps back in late "95" but somebody couldn't keep their mouth shut, talked publicly about the investigation and scuttled it. We mentioned that in the show.

Remember that back in 1979 most people never heard of George Leonard's book and UFO stuff was way-way back on the burner. Not even close to what it became in the late 1980's. I think that NASA was caught flat-footed by Vito and Lester. I doubt it could happen today.

Decker
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AnnetteMarie

Skilled Investigator
had a listen to the first half of the first episode, next weekend I will get the second half in.

so far I am really enjoying it. thanks for sharing.
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Either MUFON or HUFON in Houston tried to follow Vito's footsteps back in late "95" but somebody couldn't keep their mouth shut, talked publicly about the investigation and scuttled it. We mentioned that in the show.

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Yep I remember hearing that. I didnt realise they actually tried to follow their footsteps though... thought it was just an investigation.

Too bad whoever it was couldnt keep it quiet.
 

Poi

Skilled Investigator
That was a great show, Don. I knew some of the moon stories, but they were connected to the book, something I've never been able to get my hands on. I remember someone's reading it way back when though. That was before I could give UFOs much credence, however. Anyway, your interview was a real eye opener and much appreciated.

Chuck Shramek comes out of my past. He was one of the funny characters on KILT in Houston when I was growing up. It was the only decent rock 'n roll station at that time and he was on a show called Hudson and Harrigan with two more hysterically funny guys, the originals anyway. At least that's how I remember him. If he'd been the news guy, I don't think his voice would have left such an impression I'd remember now, but it's been a long time. May he rest well.

Did you sell the book, Don? I think I'd have to hang onto that one.
 

cyberknight

Skilled Investigator
That was a great show, Don. I knew some of the moon stories, but they were connected to the book, something I've never been able to get my hands on.
There is still some nice used copies available on amazon .. err.. for a price $$$. I just got one from there, it came yesterday and I was really surprised that it was in great condition. I had to laugh when I opened it up and saw the original price on the inside cover $9.95 ... oh well, missed opportunity.
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
This was an absolutely amazing show Don. I have a week off this week and I really enjoyed sitting outside yesterday on a sunny day, listening to the show on my iPod.

Now I always struggle in the UFO field because I always find it hard to believe peoples claims like this, one part of my brain tells me he must be making it up, the other tells me that he sounds so believable, and the story is too detailed to be a hoax.

I guess the only scenario that pleases both sides of the brain is that he isnt making the story up, but was just seeing mirages in the moon pictures, like how everyone thinks there was that face on mars. I know people have said that there are pyramid structures etc on mars as well but i think its more likely they are just seeing shapes in the natural ground.

Whilst you might say it seems unlikely a trained engineer would not be able to tell the difference between natural terrain and man-made structures.... he himself admitted that it was difficult to see and he had to make his eyes acclimatize.... perhaps like people do on those magic eye pictures everyone had on their walls and T-shirts in the 90's???
Anyones eyes can play tricks with them... even an engineers.

As for the transcripts, well there's nothing new about those, we already knew there was times when the astronauts said they saw bogeys, and usually it was space debris or part of their own rockets. Also i believe I saw a documentary once where one of the astronauts was talking about how he used the term Santa claus... i cant remember what it was though.

Now people have in the past bashed me for writing these threads... but its not meant to be a debunking excercise, i am just saying what goes through my brain.
Final thoughts:

How comes the japanese or Indians havent seen anything up there recently with their probes? They were able to view any structures on the moon above the size of 15 metres and we havent heard anything about it from them..... are they too covering it up with amazing success

I find it hard to believe that word wouldnt have got out about the alien structures. There were thousands of people involved with the moon landings and you can always be sure that a (probably high) percentage of them would have spilled the beans to someone.

If there really were bases up there, the only way they could have kept it secret all this time would have been lots of threatening force by the secret services on the people who knew... yet they just let Vito stroll right in there, check the pictures out and then walk out and tell everyone? Come on...

And again for Karl Wolff, he said there was loads of people from all different countries in the operation room at NASA or wherever. Well again are we supposed to believe that all these people went back to their countries and never let the word out?

These are all the unanswered questions I have....
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Thats a big question I have too. The Chinese are very busy up there at the moment. Either there is nothing there or they're in an international cabal to keep the lid on it. Or maybe they are forbidden from mapping the 'far side' of the moon through some contractual agreement.

Its a reach, I know.

But I agree, as much as I love this moon stuff, the fact that nothing has come out of these other nation's escaped makes me a little skeptical.

Would be interested to hear Don's take on that too.
 

Decker

Administrator
Staff member
Gentlemen you both asked excellent questions, and questions I have been asking myself for over 20 years.

Those questions not only deal with the Moon but with the UFO subject in its entirety. First off, I spoke to Vito in great depth, off as well as on the show. Have you read Leonard's "Somebody Else is on the Moon?" This was written and published 1975-1976, long before all that happened in the 80's and 90's. Remember that this was years after the U.S. Airforce closed down Project Blue Book, just 3 or 4 years after Apollo shut down and overall the UFO topic was dormant. As Leonard stated at the time he had an "in" in NASA and the photos he found were unknown to the public at large.

Later I was to get duplicates of many of those photos, as well as discover some myself from NASA. I have been doing this research for a very long time and for what its worth, I am convinced something is up there.

Do I believe Vito could have been fooled? Do I believe he lied to me? Was I there? My answers are Yes, No and No. Anything is possible of course but lets look at it.

First, could there be a planet wide cabal to withhold the information on off world visitors coming here to Planet Earth? I suppose among the powerful national states like Russia, China, U.S., U.K., France, Japan, Spain and the like. However this would be in reference to their intelligence services and military. Some of the information does spill out, we are here talking about it. There is a lot at play with this, stability, economics, religion, national or even planetary defense questions must be taken into consideration. The same with the Moon as well as overall UFO information.

If, and again I say If any of this UFO information is real, and what I mean is if any comes from somewhere else then they must have a base close to Earth. The Moon has everything needed to sustain life providing one has the technology to use the material to sustain life. According to people like Vito and others, it appears that this presence has been here a long time, and we are talking mostly about the far side of the Moon, not the side facing us. Over the years I have heard stories about the first landings on the Moon. Recall that the Apollo astronauts were all military officers subject to military rules and regs. And also, look at how many of those astronauts dealt with their sudden world wide notoriety when they returned. Armstrong became a hermit for example, he refused to ever speak about his experience again. Aldrin became an alcoholic, although he is in recovery now. There are other cases also, but you should get the idea of what I am saying. Why? Was it just because they went to the Moon? These guys were all very experienced military pilots, many of them combat veterans. The suggestion is that they may have experienced something so unbelievable that they were not prepared to deal with it.

I am currently working on a project, and have been for some time, that just might answer some of these questions but at this time I am in the dark as much as you are. And after all, we are here to ask questions that are pretty damn hard to ask anywhere else. At anyrate . . . . . Thank you for listening!

Decker
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
The way Armstrong became a recluse is something I also find deeply fascinating. And its pretty clear Aldrin isnt revealing all he knows... the story James Fox tells is evidence enough for that.

And like I said earlier in the thread, where there is smoke there is usually fire and there sure as shit seems to be a lot of smoke.

The silence from other nations really is quite a conundrum though. Or maybe its not, I dunno. Looking at this Vito Saccheri story again, and specifically at NASA where there was suggestions of a highly compartmentalised structure with a strict need-to-know policy much like the military, it occurs to me that there is every possibility that things are the same in every space agency any where around the world.

So China havent come out and announced findings of anomalies in their mapping and photographic data from the far side of the moon.... SHOCK! China being secretive? Never happen!

And I always come back to a lunar phenomenon we know to be 100% true. Lunar Transient Phenomena, of which there are astronomy records going back hundreds of years reporting similar things.



(For anyone that might not have seen that, its not a trick of light. It's an observable phenomena [occasional] allegedly going back 100s of years)

Ok, its 3:16am. Why on why am I still awake posting stuff about the moon? I must be insane.
 

Loose Leaf Tea

Skilled Investigator
I guess we've all seen this? Frustratingly short clip. Has anyone heard the full speech? Are people reading too much into this?

 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Is that the speech he gave at a student dinner? I would watch it but my Internet is slowed dial up speeds until next monthly cycle (22nd - oh how will I last that long?).

If so, yeah that is super interesting.
 


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