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UFO over Jerusalem--- Don check this out

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I agree with you Softbeard. I get a little bit uncomfortable when people try to kill off a story like this too quickly. You have to take a balanced view and remain open to all possibilities. The people responsible for these videos should be innocent of any hoaxing until proven guilty.

How many of us know if the so called hoaxing evidence in these debunking videos is correct? I must say the video with the sequence in the car does look as though it's staged a la Cloverfield and spliced on. It's apparent that some people have an interest in muddying the waters because we already know of at least one hoaxed video. What other muddying is going on?
 
Hello all,

This entire thread proves out only one thing..."For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, no explanation is possible." Author Unknown.

Jari

Not quite.... as in religion you've got atheists, believers, and agnostics.

Most people here are agnostics (I'm not sure there is a god.. I don't know)... or even ignostics (what the heck is a god) here.

Getting to any workable truth requires alot of time, research and repeat experience. You don't get anywhere with absolutist believers or non-believers and you'll never get an absolute yes or no from a single case like this one with the current information lol.
`
'The sum of all cases is greater than one good case' .... Author Ezechiel lmao
 
You don't get anywhere with absolutist believers or non-believers and you'll never get an absolute yes or no from a single case like this one with the current information

The interesting thing to me about this case is that it is obviously engineered to have an impact on people's belief systems. Anyway you care to take it, either as real or faked, it seems obviously intended to mess with the heads (a technical description of the process) of folks who care to pay attention to it. Maybe I'm attributing too much significance to the obvious religious overtones to the thing and its just a copy-cat hoax situation. Come to think of it, how many possible copy-cat hoaxes of similar nature come to mind? Mexico city balloon fleets maybe?
 
3c473607407c.png



Is this evidence that the whole thing is a hoax, If you watch the beginning of video 1 you see this bizarre symmetrical thing on the left.

Any thoughts?
 
Not quite.... as in religion you've got atheists, believers, and agnostics.

Most people here are agnostics (I'm not sure there is a god.. I don't know)... or even ignostics (what the heck is a god) here.

Getting to any workable truth requires alot of time, research and repeat experience. You don't get anywhere with absolutist believers or non-believers and you'll never get an absolute yes or no from a single case like this one with the current information lol.
`
'The sum of all cases is greater than one good case' .... Author Ezechiel lmao

The funny thing is, even not believing is a belief. Whenever we say we believe, we're saying we don't know.

I always loved this story which illustrates my point:

"Werner Heisenberg [in Physics and Beyond, 1971] recollects a friendly conversation among young participants at the 1927 Solvay Conference, about Einstein and Planck's views on religion. Wolfgang Pauli, Heisenberg, and Dirac took part in it. Dirac's contribution was a poignant and clear criticism of the political manipulation of religion, that was much appreciated for its lucidity by Bohr, when Heisenberg reported it to him later. Among other things, Dirac said: "I cannot understand why we idle discussing religion. If we are honest – and as scientists honesty is our precise duty – we cannot help but admit that any religion is a pack of false statements, deprived of any real foundation. The very idea of God is a product of human imagination. [...] I do not recognize any religious myth, at least because they contradict one another. [...]" Heisenberg's view was tolerant. Pauli had kept silent, after some initial remarks. But when finally he was asked for his opinion, jokingly he said: "Well, I'd say that also our friend Dirac has got a religion and the first commandment of this religion is 'God does not exist and Paul Dirac is his prophet'". Everybody burst into laughter, including Dirac.

This last quote is apparently a paraphrase of the quip about Robert Green Ingersoll (1833–1899): "There is no God, and Ingersoll is his prophet."

Belief is belief, regardless of what side of the fence you're on, and even if you're straddling it.

Believe nothing. With the important things in life, you'd better know.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

 
Belief is belief, regardless of what side of the fence you're on, and even if you're straddling it.

I like the 'ignostic' approach which forces an intellectual effort to define.

Unidentified flying object (UFO) or unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) can branch out into wide interpretations and definitions.

Stanton Friedman is into alien structured craft (ASC) originating from nearby solar systems.
Jacques Vallee likes multidimensional intelligent aerial phenomenon (MIAP)
.... etc...

There's some stuff flying around and occasionally poking us.... what exactly are you supposed to believe in ? First you need to catch it and poke it... unless you think it is your master lol
 
3c473607407c.png



Is this evidence that the whole thing is a hoax, If you watch the beginning of video 1 you see this bizarre symmetrical thing on the left.

Any thoughts?

There's no way to give an absolute on this right now. Some of the videos are obvious hoaxes. Some not so
much. The fourth video (without the car scene) looks interesting. But this is actually besides the point.

The point is is that someone is really going out of their way to mindscrew people, as trainedobserver
wisely pointed out. "Three Card Monte" keeps popping into my mind with situations like this.

For those of you who don't know what Three Card Monte is:

Wikimedia Error

We need to stop looking at the cards (the videos) and work on figuring out who the dealer
is, and who the shill or shills are. We already know who the marks are : )

Who benefits? That is the question that needs to be asked. Otherwise we're chasing our own tail.
 
Belief is belief, regardless of what side of the fence you're on, and even if you're straddling it

Well you can still qualify it. The thing that Ignostism has going for it is an elimination of yet another layer of assumption. You can either choose to believe (read as assume) that human beings have the capacity and resources to formulate a correct concept of a an omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, eternal, creator being responsible for the creation, direction, and maintenance of the universe (or some such thing loosely referred to as a god), a large assumption in my estimation, or you can choose to not to assume that human beings are capable of comprehending things which lie outside of their short and small footprint inside space/time. Making fewer assumptions seems like a safer and more reliable means of doing things to me.
 
I like the 'ignostic' approach which forces an intellectual effort to define.

Unidentified flying object (UFO) or unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) can branch out into wide interpretations and definitions.

Stanton Friedman is into alien structured craft (ASC) originating from nearby solar systems.
Jacques Vallee likes multidimensional intelligent aerial phenomenon (MIAP)
.... etc...

There's some stuff flying around and occasionally poking us.... what exactly are you supposed to believe in ? First you need to catch it and poke it... unless you think it is your master lol

To define a thing is to limit it's function in time and space, to segregate and separate it. We do this all the time. Just typing these words and speaking I'm utilizing this function.

However, we also utilize a unifying function. We string the words together to form sentences, to attempt to come to conclusions about the world.

But most people's thought processes are associative. There's no logic behind them. And even if there is, is the premise correct? The problem of what Ingo Swann calls "Analytical Overlay" constantly rears it's head in everything we perceive.

The 10 to 20% of this that's actually "paranormal" (why is it "para"? It may in fact be very normal in the grand scheme of things. Just not to us at present.) doesn't fit into a nice and neat definition. There's laws and rules, but none that we're familiar with. Sri Auribindo called it " The Intermediate Zone". Wolfgang Pauli called it The Unified Psychophysical Reality. Jung called it "The Unus Mundus". It's segregative but unified, concrete yet ethereal, defined yet undefinable. It's the space in between.

Western scientific thought has no tolerance for things that can't be pinned down, that can't be poked, and absolutely
no tolerance for events that can't be consistently replicated.

As I said before, believe in nothing. Reason, be open but discriminate, be humble but not passive. Always weigh both sides, never polarize yourself. Debunkers may have their own rigid belief system, but it doesn't mean that they don't raise valid points. The middle way is usually the best.

As beings operating mostly in a 3 dimensional construct, how do you define phenomena that's 4D? 8D? 11D? Can you? Do we even have the faculties, let alone the instrumentation, to properly analyze what we are seeing?

Your post raises interesting questions that need to be answered before we can even know what exactly it is that we are looking at. Thanks.
 
As beings operating mostly in a 3 dimensional construct, how do you define phenomena that's 4D? 8D? 11D? Can you? Do we even have the faculties, let alone the instrumentation, to properly analyze what we are seeing

Exactly! (Bells ring, lights flash, a duck drops down from the ceiling) We are navigating a multidimensional (10, 11?) full spectrum universe using a 3-Dimensional limited spectrum user interface called the human mind. There are numerous phenomena that we know of that are real and effect us but which do not register to our senses nor display in our consciousness, such as magnetic fields for example. Are there living things or other consciousnesses that exist outside of interface's ability to portray to us? Possibly ...but how would you know? How could you tell what is a function of a failure of the mechanism (such as in a hallucination or mirage situation) and what is a reliable interpretation of a anomalous event? You have to be able to reliably reproduce it of course and that is something the paranormal doesn't readily lend itself to unfortunately.
 
3c473607407c.png



Is this evidence that the whole thing is a hoax, If you watch the beginning of video 1 you see this bizarre symmetrical thing on the left.

Any thoughts?

That still shows evidence of apparent lines of symmetry being present, but, by itself, little else. You could can define lines of symmetry like this in just about any unadulterated video which has symmetrical objects in its fielsd of view. By itself, even if mirroring of the edges in the video were to be proved, doesn't directly affect what is being shown in the rest of the video.
 
Well you can still qualify it. The thing that Ignostism has going for it is an elimination of yet another layer of assumption. You can either choose to believe (read as assume) that human beings have the capacity and resources to formulate a correct concept of a an omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, eternal, creator being responsible for the creation, direction, and maintenance of the universe (or some such thing loosely referred to as a god), a large assumption in my estimation, or you can choose to not to assume that human beings are capable of comprehending things which lie outside of their short and small footprint inside space/time. Making fewer assumptions seems like a safer and more reliable means of doing things to me.

Actually, Ignosticism itself is just another in a long line of "isms". Just another definition attempting to limit
the unlimitable.

To assume means to suppose to be the case, without proof. Just another term for belief.

You're absolutely right about various assumptions being made. Assuming God is an accurate term for the entity.
Assuming the associations that come up in people's minds when they hear the word God are correct ones. Assuming that science has found everything there is to find, and anything outside of it's current ability to assess is idiotic fantasy. Assuming the entity is even made out of matter as we understand it. Assuming that it doesn't generate effects in the world. Assuming various religious texts were meant to be interpreted literally. Assuming those texts are written for the layperson. Assuming we're "only human".

There are assumptions all over the place.

Belief systems are in vogue now for some very simple reasons. It makes it very easy to manipulate large numbers of people simultaneously to achieve your goals, whatever they may be. If I can get you to believe that a dove impregnated a girl, that a man parted a sea, that all (infidels, jews, gentiles, fill in the blank) must be killed, then I can get you to believe in anything I need you to believe in.

Also, belief is easy. You don't have to really do much, other than read books and attend events that reinforce
the belief. Just believe. Oh, and give me your son for this war we've got to fight. It's
(God's, Allah's, Bob's, etc.) will. He told me so.

Belief also generates doubt. Which generates fear. It's a perfect built in failsafe. More people starting to doubt the current belief? Modify a couple of "interpretations" of the text, and all's well with the world.

You're right that making fewer assumptions will go a long way in straightening this all out, especially as it applies to the UFO field. Thanks.

---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------

Exactly! (Bells ring, lights flash, a duck drops down from the ceiling) We are navigating a multidimensional (10, 11?) full spectrum universe using a 3-Dimensional limited spectrum user interface called the human mind. There are numerous phenomena that we know of that are real and effect us but which do not register to our senses nor display in our consciousness, such as magnetic fields for example. Are there living things or other consciousnesses that exist outside of interface's ability to portray to us? Possibly ...but how would you know? How could tell what is a function of a failure of the mechanism (such as in a hallucination or mirage situation) and what is a reliable interpretation of a anomalous event? You have to be able to reliably reproduce it of course and that is something the paranormal doesn't readily lend itself to unfortunately.

He's got it!(fireworks, people throwing popcorn in the air) You put it all together in one paragraph.

What I would add though is that we have other levels of interface available to us. That what things like meditation,Taoist internal alchemy, yoga, & theurgy are for. We don't just have the human mind on hand to access.

It's just that some of the practices are involved, take time, and can be repetitive and boring as hell. But they do work. Different rates of breathing correspond to different levels of consciousness, and activate other systems in the body and brain over time.

You can reproduce the various mind states, but depending on how deep down you go (theta and lower), you don't always have direct control over what shows up, either in your head or outside of it.

And I'll be the first to say that unless you're involved in one of these or other similar systems, talking about it is just an intellectual exercise. That why most people involved in these systems keep there mouths shut to the layperson.

Also the stuff that happens can be so bizzare to our standard mode of perceiving and functioning, that you're just opening yourself up to ridicule to talk about it at any length. Which is understandable. What I'm saying is just heresay and nonsensical mumbo jumbo if you haven't experienced it yourself.

As I always say, never believe about the important things in life.

Your post rocked!
 
Oh, the religious implications...did someone else catch the 'pale horse rider' video from Egypt yet? (my hope is that it's a Ghostbusters 3 promo..Bill Murray or no deal ;) )...also, anyone who gives this footage any sort of meaning....)
I mean...honestly....fodder for the die-hard religious right in any country spouting Armageddon is upon us. I guess I'll just smirk my way through it and drink a beer on the fields of Megiddo.

---------- Post added at 04:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 AM ----------

This video is way better ;) This was still purported to be a 'real' event
 
Hello All,
I have to admit as a new member of the forum I've been impressed at the level of input here. As you all know by now the Dimension Zone is a website about everything anomalous...has been quite an undertaking and requires a lot of passion to keep moving forward.

For those of you who have visited the site, you will notice it's actually a cluster of web sites, most of which are still in the planning stages. The Paranormal phase is about complete (although it will never be complete as it's updated) and contains over 120 pages. Our next two web site construction will be on UFOs and Alien Abduction. We are in need of someone who would be interested in becoming the DZs UFO Associate Editor and Alien Abduction Associate Editor. But in addition to these there is other subject matter associates needed, including The Mystics (clairvoyant, psychic, empathic, etc.), Cryptozoology, Crop Circles, Conspiracies, and the Ancients.

If any of you are interested in giving us a hand, I'd love to chat with you. This would also include involvement on article selections for the NEW Journal of Anomalous Sciences slated to be released in September 2011 in conjunction with a media news release of the Dimension Zone.

We have an impressive list of DZ Advisors who help us out as well...and hopefully we will grow to be site everyone turns to when they want to know about anything anomalous.

All of which are intended to be free, and advertising will hopefully pay for the cost of maintaining them.

We do all our layouts, and much of our graphical design and programming...if that's your forte, let me know if your interested in joining the team as a technical editor or web designer...

Just thought I'd mention it...this is an interesting group and I like what I've seen in our discussion over the Jerusalem UFO video's. So if you're interested in joining our team, let's talk.

Thanks
Jari
[email protected]
 
There is no Ghostbusters 3 without Murray. Period. He's been the one holding everything up. Fingers crossed:)

As someone who was raised Southern Baptist, did 9 years of Catholic School, & growing up attended services
of various Protestant denominations, it never ceases to amaze me how many people take what's in the Bible
in general, and The Book of Revelations in particular as literal. It wasn't even the original last book of the bible
(It was the Book of Enoch, later taken out).

Revelations is both an initiatory text, and a coded diss of the Roman Catholic Church, Not a simplistic horror comic.

And the rapture isn't even in the original documents that eventually became the Bible. It's a very recent concept created by Increase and Cotton Mather extrapolating off of Paul's silliness, and further fleshed out by Morgan Edwards, Edward Irving, and John Nelson Darby. But Christians these days swear up and down it's in the Bible! Amazing.

The idea of armageddon and the rapture the way it was taught to me always impressed me as being sick
and more than a little twisted. So all good Christians get taken up to Heaven to watch like sports fans
as the "sinners"(those that don't accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior) suffer unspeakable
horrors on Earth. I used to get into it with the nuns in theology class over this all the time. I never
saw God as being a psychotic, mass murdering maniac. Humans already have that covered.

In some ways these videos are like a subset of the Jerusalem event. Is this all a part of an "End Times"
influenced Psyop to excite further destabilization for various geopolitical ends?

Break out the popcorn folks. Things are getting very interesting.

Thanks for the post.
 
Infolad1 could mirrored edges or motion tiling be caused by a cellphone artifact or some type of un intentional result? If you look above you can see the image I posted pointing out a concern with the mirror tiling.
 
"In some ways these videos are like a subset of the Jerusalem event. Is this all a part of an "End Times"

I consider myself a nice guy (as millions of people consider themselves ;) ), all the 2012 fueled end time scenarios seem to get to people, no kidding.

As i said month or rather years before on here, I am a bit worried about too many people in 'believing' in one thing, if that makes any sense.

---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

There is so much power in the simple belief of an idea/thing/happening if you can rally enough people behind it.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

Sorry for sounding 'new age'y ', but it is the case..
 
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