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U.S. politics: a religious divide ?


Ezechiel

Paranormal Adept
Any evangelical democrats out there ? ;)

If this trend continues you'll end up with a fractured dysfunctional country. Isn't separation of church and state in the constitution anywhere ? When social issues like abortion, gay marriage and the like become reference issues on which to choose a president (or a party) you move away from secular and tolerant to something closer to a religious state.

The new America ?
 
I have to admit i find it as disturbing as i do the idea of Muslim constituents pushing for the introduction of sharia law in western cultures.
I was horrified to read Mr Redferns research into the Collins Elite
Author and paranormal researcher, Nicholas Redfern joins us for a look into bizarre connections between a shadowy government military-intelligence group called the "Collins Elite", and the ET/UFO phenomena which they believe to be directly "demonic".

Using direct information supplied to Nick by former MUFON investigator and Anglican priest, Ray Boueche; in what can best be termed a vast right-wing religious conspiracy, the group upholds the US is threatened by an imminent Satanic threat, and the country should be locked down under martial law and the citizenry placed under strict Old Testament Law to thwart the "soul snatching" plans of the demonic horde.

These beliefs, by the Collins group, are largely tied to their investigations into the activities of Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons' and the "Babalon Rising" ritual instituted by Crowley and Parsons, along with L. Ron Hubbard in the mid-1940s.

Under the scenario outlined by the group, the American Constitution would be revoked and the nation placed under a type of Biblical Old Testament theocracy/surveillance state with closed borders and severe penalties for interacting with the "demons".

The Collins research also delves into the work of experiencer/researcher, Dr. Karla Turner; and references the early (40 A.D.) works of Emil Schneweis' "Angels and Demons According to Lactantius, as well as Edward Langton's 1949 work. "Essentials of Demonology", and many other seminal works related to demonic/spiritist apparitions.

How ominous are the events reported by Nick regarding this potential theocratic takeover? Are factions of the U.S. government committed to the notion of a lock down and forced conversion to Abrahamic-style nation-state? What is the REAL deception in the ET/UFO paradigm? We find out...

What a terrifying thought, could first contact really send us back to the dark ages like this, or are we better than that as a species. Are we doomed to cower in fear when presented with a new paradigm.

Church and state should be seperate imo, when you have multiple teams playing a game, its wise to have a neutral referee
 
The evangelical lobby is huge ! Actually gave George W. Bush the edge in the 2000 election.

Knew that GW was a born again christian after his bout with alcoholism but never imagined for a moment that evangelical torque could be such a dangerous game changer.

Remember this ?
http://www.predestinarian.net/threa...lim-souls-quot-in-Iraq-writes-David-Rennie-in
Rick Perry, Santorum, Bachmann and 'I can see Russia from my backyard' Palin .... lol what the batman cave is goin on lmao.

You guys need to address this before it spins out of control. Its actually spilling into Canada and scaring the heck out of seculars all over (Liberals and Conservatives). Talked to friends in europe and they can't believe there is so much fundamentalism out here. Can't figure out if its the education system's fault or actual brain washing !?!
 
I wouldn't worry about it. Political propaganda for the most part. For one thing I'm not an evangelical but I agree they Should Not have to finance an abortion with tax money. Nor should it be outlawed on religious grounds. The church should not have to reconize same sex marriage. But, it should be legal as far as the state is concerned. Yes, we should be able to be critical of a setting U.S. President without being shouted down with the silly race card. They savaged Bill Clinton and L.B.J. gets a pass on Vietnam but Nixon is blamed for all of it in some circles. IT's just politics. I'm not far left but I agree Obama is not some evil muslim terriorist. This nation is going through many changes right now. Change is hard and the evolution of a culture will have some deep potholes. I find far left hypocrites and far right hypocrites. Fact is most people in the world have spiritual beliefs. I see a lot of "strawmen" set up and knocked down on both sides of the divide. Actually, I hear a couple of Canadians here come on and paint Canada as this mecca of unbelief. But, when I hear actual Canadian radio or t.v. shows (which is rare in the American south.) I often hear them talk of faith and values. The fact is that America in twenty years will not look much like the America of the past 200 years. That's OK but we will have growing pains. I'm not sure the nation will hold. It's been a great experiment of multi cultural people making one great nation. My British/Irish ancestors came over and connected with my Native American ancestors who connected with my African American ancestors. Yes, I'm white but honestly there are all kinds of folks in my family tree. From Irish to Dutch to American Indian. But, now there is a culture war going on. We don't idenify with each other very well. Religious people are afraid and see the old foundations crumbling. But, it also angers them when they see comedians and others making fun of Christ while saying you have to be tolerant of muslims. Truth is, it isn't the Christian right that will outlaw rights. Try going to Saudi Arabia and doing a stand up skit on Muhammed or putting the Koran in a vat of urine. So, yeah the right feels a little embattled right now. On the other hand I do agree with seperation of church and state. But, that means we don't "proclaim and establish" a state religion. It doesn't mean we demonize it. Anyway, I'm done with this one. To be honest arguing with zealots (secular or religious) takes way to much psychic/emotional energy. Self rightous dummies who know the mind of God or the absolutes of science or the correct political party are always so sure of themselves and set up strawmen and knock em down and pat themselves on the back. The rest of us just have to be content with actually "thinking" for ourselves and praying or meditating or researching things for ourselves. Anyway, that's my political rant for today. I'm done with this one.

I keep my visions to myself...Stevie Nicks. :cool:
 
Any evangelical democrats out there ? ;)

If this trend continues you'll end up with a fractured dysfunctional country. Isn't separation of church and state in the constitution anywhere ? When social issues like abortion, gay marriage and the like become reference issues on which to choose a president (or a party) you move away from secular and tolerant to something closer to a religious state.

The new America ?
People who think with their emotions instead of reason are dangerous.
 
I wouldn't worry about it. Political propaganda for the most part.

Not when it results in the nomination of highly conservative Supreme Court judges.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-03-13-judges_N.htm

Potentially leaning towards:
Reversing of Roe vs Wade (Apply the christian definition of life and send young pregnant women to other countries for abortions),
Stem cell research bans (Apply the christian definition of life and send Parkinson patients to asian countries for treatment instead ?),
Faith-based initiatives (Use tax dollars to fund christian churches... ps try getting funding for mosques in the US),
Intelligent design and young earth creationsim back in the classroom (oh boy)
... etc, etc...
This is the purpose of an evangelical lobby. Nothing more nothing less.

Voyager said:
People who think with their emotions instead of reason are dangerous.

That's why your founding fathers decided to keep religious matters out of government operations.
This is dynamite.... actually so was resolving the slavery situation in the US south (bible belt?)
 
I have to admit i find it as disturbing as i do the idea of Muslim constituents pushing for the introduction of sharia law in western cultures.
I was horrified to read Mr Redferns research into the Collins Elite

What a terrifying thought, could first contact really send us back to the dark ages like this, or are we better than that as a species. Are we doomed to cower in fear when presented with a new paradigm.
Church and state should be seperate imo, when you have multiple teams playing a game, its wise to have a neutral referee

Same here. We are really not that far away from the dark ages when groups like these get government funding and conclude that aliens are demons lmao.
 
Actually, I LMAO at people that think there are aliens period! ;) But, I try to be nice about it. :p

Just kidding. I don't think we are being visited by aliens but if I didn't at least give it a some consideration I wouldn't be on here. I cetainly have some thoughts on "my" nations politics. But, I just don't expend the energy to argue with left wing self rightousness or right wing self rightousness. We just need to stop using terms that demean others if we want to have a real conversation or get others to listen to us. Ya are not gonna do that with terms like "racist," "fag," "homophobe" or creationist or pointy headed liberal. The fact is that some conservatives are feeling demonized these days. It's OK not to feel comfortable with abortion or to fund it with your own money. It's OK to tell somebody to stay out of your bedroom and off your body. It's not OK to call your own opinions the only logical ones and to demonize others. But, as I said before I'm not gonna get into a long political discussion. I just urge everyone not to get all their political and cultural theology from Rush Limbaugh or Keith Oberlman. I think for myself. :cool:
 
L.B.J. gets a pass on Vietnam but Nixon is blamed for all of it in some circles.

You made some interesting points in that post...but which circle are you talking about in this specific instance? Anyone with half a wouldn't believe that.
 
Any evangelical democrats out there ? ;)

Ha! Seriously though, there are plenty of democratic Christians but they don't let social values DOMINATE who they vote for. George W. Bush would never have been elected and whoever wins the current nomination process (Romney) wouldn't have a shot in hell if it wasn't for the social values voters (AKA evangelical christians).
 
The evangelical lobby is huge ! Actually gave George W. Bush the edge in the 2000 election.

Knew that GW was a born again christian after his bout with alcoholism but never imagined for a moment that evangelical torque could be such a dangerous game changer.

Remember this ?
http://www.predestinarian.net/threa...lim-souls-quot-in-Iraq-writes-David-Rennie-in
Rick Perry, Santorum, Bachmann and 'I can see Russia from my backyard' Palin .... lol what the batman cave is goin on lmao.

You guys need to address this before it spins out of control. Its actually spilling into Canada and scaring the heck out of seculars all over (Liberals and Conservatives). Talked to friends in europe and they can't believe there is so much fundamentalism out here. Can't figure out if its the education system's fault or actual brain washing !?!

One word: IDIOCRACY
 
I hear a couple of Canadians here come on and paint Canada as this mecca of unbelief.

I'd be pretty confident in saying that Quebec is probably one of the most secular and liberal areas of North America. You can quote me on that.
 
Religious delusion has been a major factor in keeping people ignorant and at each others throats throughout human history. The various brands of religious fundamentalism promote pretty much the same thing in different wrappers, only the severity of the medieval control over behavior and thought varies. There is nothing more dangerous than a righteous person who is justified by their relationship with their divine sponsors and imbued with their divine wisdom. Whether it is Teutonic, Christian, Islamic, Scientology, or someone's self-styled religious beliefs, the fallacy of justifying imposing one's will upon another in the name of some invisible superior being or world remains the same.

True spirituality comes from a natural, healthy empathy for your fellow human beings and life in general. Or so it seems to me. The incredible complex behavioral protocols of religious practices fail completely if they do not foster a human being's natural empathy for their fellows. So it is remarkable that many of these allegedly wonderful "world-religions" and philosophies view non-believers as lost, animals, sub-human, or worse, their useless and false natures standing out in stark relief to the appearance of moral superiority they try to present.
 
It all boils down to this:

Are the United States of America about to become a christian state in the same fashion as Israel is considered jewish state ? Even Israel is having issues with its fundamentalists:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/28/beit-shemesh-ultra-orthodox-jews_n_1172903.html

That specific definition is on the table but for some unknowable reason nobody is talking about it. Why a taboo? Because the idea runs against a traditional image of tolerance and church-state separation.

http://evangelicalsformitt.org/
Once again, the leader of a republican party is about to be chosen with heavy evangelical backing and, should he be elected as president, the long term impacts on a seemingly apathetic society will be devastating if nobody wakes up. How can you even hope to survive in a global economy when you denigrate science and education.

Its ok to want to become a religious state as long as you're not hypocrital about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns
 
I still think some of you are making mountains out of molehills. But, anyway, go ahead and empty your mind. I'm sure there's only one true side. I'm gonna go back to debating little green men and metal in the ground as proof of E.T. It makes as much sense as this does. :cool:
 
I pulled the little green men part out of my ass. The metal in the ground however, was actually presented as "proof" at one time. :p
 
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