Randall
J. Randall Murphy
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but while you're doing it, try not to put words in my mouth. I never made any claim that the only way a person can be harmed is financially.
-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Travis Walton - September 21, 2014
- Thread starter pong
- Start date
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Thank you for answering my question Chris. What is really sad is that the rest of your commentary doesn't deal with any of the issues, but instead is an attack against me personally. You are capable of carrying on a much more intelligent discussion than this. I had expected better.
Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
First of all, my posts weren't really in response to you but to what seemed like a manhunt by Phil Klass. And I'm not really done yet. If you'll follow the link from my first post you can read what the supposed nephew wrote and then what I posted as Travis Waltons response. I haven't decided what I think about his case although it seems clear that from his story and the crews, their side is done with offering anything new and revealing. What they've said, they've stuck with. But what I found when googling his name with Phil Klass was head shaking. Also, many of those links lead right back to Robert Shaeffer. Klass had a remarkable ability to listen to the story and then fill all the holes with his own version of a polished story. To know that he is still so revered by many idiots in this field frys my ass. That these people have any credibility waving the Phil Klass flag, ugg. Beyond that, I'm still digging.
Randall: When someone gets a stick up their ass about the show, me, my work or my attitude about their whining I choose not to engage. All it does is give the person something else to latch on to to attempt to draw me in and waste my valuable time. fwiw: I'm a busy guy and I have a life that is apart from these subjects, guests and show episodes. Why don't you go write a book and dazzle all of us with your unimpeachable brilliance? You sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on this forum—time that could be better spent (IMO).
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
That's the spirit Heidi
. While Chris makes personal attacks you're actually are looking into the evidence and trying to determine if the claims made are true so that you can provide valid points and counterpoint. I have great respect for that. It would be nice to know just how much of the credibility damaging evidence is true. It seems to me that the Moment of Truth video, and the news clipping with the photo are true, as are the details I've posted on the USI website article. If you should find any error in them please let me know and I'll be happy to amend the article accordingly.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Maybe you're right about spending too much time here, but while I am here, if you're going to take time out of your busy schedule to respond, the least you could do is provide valid counterpoint to specific issues instead of focusing on cracks about my personality.
Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
I'm not sure I get your assessment on your site of Travis Walton. Honestly it looks like a Phill Klass version of events. Where's Travis's version, or the crew members, or the sheriff. Where's all the polygraph tests he took and passed as well as the crew members. Did he walk out of a Dr.'s app t when he realized this guy wasn't licensed in Arizona and it looked like a sham? Did he approach the media or they him?That's the spirit Heidi
There's definitely parts in your summation that run the standard story but if I were new to the case you would have convinced me this guy was a fake. Your intention?
Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
Edit to the above, I scrolled down and saw the mention on polygraphs with guys.
Thought I was scrolled down all the way lol.
Thought I was scrolled down all the way lol.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
That's fair comment to the extent that we don't know the truth about the alien abduction part of the story. But that is also the case with virtually all sightings and claims of alien contact. We're left to make our own leaps of faith. I reserved mine based on the circumstantial evidence that shed doubt. I assume you've weighed the same pros and cons, so it makes me wonder where my reasoning for doubting is flawed. Given the same information, what is it that makes one person believe and another person not believe? Skeptics would argue that the human capacity for gullibility is unsurpassed, but I don't think it's that simple. I don't have an answer either.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
My intention in the USI article was not to retell Walton's version of the story, but to provide the basic claims and the parts that seem to be to be legitimate based on evidence, but little known by most people because it's been left out of the pro-Walton material. BTW: The passed polygraph tests were mentioned:
"In the meantime, five of the men who had been with Walton during the UFO sighting passed polygraph tests corroborating their account of seeing a UFO over the spot where Walton went missing."
Regardless of the fact that Klass was a debunker and skeptic, it would be irresponsible to ignore information that appears to be true, simply because Klass provided it. The article also doesn't conclude that Walton's story is fabricated. There are however, a number of websites that do draw that conclusion and post it most prominently. They might be entitled to that opinion, but I think that's going too far. The fact is, we don't have sufficient evidence for an alien abduction, nor do we have sufficient evidence to prove a hoax, but we do have circumstantial evidence that throws serious doubt on the claim, and it remains controversial to this day.
Edit: I just noticed that you noticed about the successful polygraph tests you missed the first time around ... LOL. The site is designed for a full featured desktop PC with a full HD screen, so portables with touch screens have a hard time displaying it properly.
Last edited:
Stagger Lee
Paranormal Adept
I enjoyed this episode. Early on, it seemed that when asked a question regarding his time in the craft, Travis would give a brief answer, then rather change the subject a bit. Later during the show, he did tend to fully answer such questions. Given his age at the time of the incident, and the amount of time that has passed, I'm sure his memory of the experience is not as sharp as it once was. I liked the question- if anyone from the military has ever contacted him about the incident, and I liked his response- specifically the detail of encountering what appeared to be humans, and the lack of interest to this particular detail. I was not aware two of the crew members have passed away. No confession of hoax from these two, reported by family members? Another interesting detail.
Wade
FeralNormal master
All in all a nice little interview. I had my own experience with missing time in that I found Travis so engaging that the show was over before I knew it.
I am not a detractor of Mr. Walton nor am I an enthusiastic supporter. Truth be told I haven't even read the book and remember little about the movie I saw years ago when it was on NBC ( I think ) maybe because as i mentioned before i find the whole abduction theory hard to swallow in many cases. The fact that he himself guessed that he may have been caught up by accident is more plausible to me especially as he mentioned at the end he isn't one of those multiple abductees... although he did say several times that he wouldn't necessarily come right out with full disclosure even if he was... which is his preogative. I may be naive but aside from that aspect that i didn't really find him all that evasive, even in all that talk about the weight discrepancies shortly after the event. Even though it did enter his mind to be proactive and check himself he was still a kid (in my eyes, because when I was 22 I didn't always follow a logical coherent order when trying to accomplish something even though I had a good intent ) and he did just go through a traumatic event of some kind.
Having said all that given that he felt it was an accident and he isn't a multiple abductee..or even an abductee...i think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and whomever it was that sucked him up may have kept him for a few days out of concern and compassion or just to study any possible ill effects from his exposure to exotic technology which means I am still looking at military involvement. But perhaps I should read the book first but I do have a reading list a couple miles long.
I am not a detractor of Mr. Walton nor am I an enthusiastic supporter. Truth be told I haven't even read the book and remember little about the movie I saw years ago when it was on NBC ( I think ) maybe because as i mentioned before i find the whole abduction theory hard to swallow in many cases. The fact that he himself guessed that he may have been caught up by accident is more plausible to me especially as he mentioned at the end he isn't one of those multiple abductees... although he did say several times that he wouldn't necessarily come right out with full disclosure even if he was... which is his preogative. I may be naive but aside from that aspect that i didn't really find him all that evasive, even in all that talk about the weight discrepancies shortly after the event. Even though it did enter his mind to be proactive and check himself he was still a kid (in my eyes, because when I was 22 I didn't always follow a logical coherent order when trying to accomplish something even though I had a good intent ) and he did just go through a traumatic event of some kind.
Having said all that given that he felt it was an accident and he isn't a multiple abductee..or even an abductee...i think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and whomever it was that sucked him up may have kept him for a few days out of concern and compassion or just to study any possible ill effects from his exposure to exotic technology which means I am still looking at military involvement. But perhaps I should read the book first but I do have a reading list a couple miles long.
withoutlimits09
Paranormal Adept
I have always held that the Travis Walton case was a very good one for a number of reasons, and I still believe that to this day. However, I was really taken aback when Walton mentioned in the interview that the town he was "dropped off" at by the visitors, was an area known for camping. He then encouraged people coming to this small town to attend his conference there, to take advantage of the great camping the area has to offer.
This stuck with me because everyone always questions where Travis could have gone for those 5 days or where he could have stayed and not have been located. I find it a tad troubling that he knows that spot to be a great area for campers.....meanwhile, the fact he "disappeared" for a week is one of the main things we find compelling about his case.
Could he have just gone camping in that area? He sure seemed to get enthusiastic about the town and the camping it has to offer. Has any researchers been able to show Walton frequently camped in that town, or visited there as a child?
I hate to be a skeptic on this case, because I always liked it, but my gut instinct when he went on and on about the camping there, was unmistakable.
This stuck with me because everyone always questions where Travis could have gone for those 5 days or where he could have stayed and not have been located. I find it a tad troubling that he knows that spot to be a great area for campers.....meanwhile, the fact he "disappeared" for a week is one of the main things we find compelling about his case.
Could he have just gone camping in that area? He sure seemed to get enthusiastic about the town and the camping it has to offer. Has any researchers been able to show Walton frequently camped in that town, or visited there as a child?
I hate to be a skeptic on this case, because I always liked it, but my gut instinct when he went on and on about the camping there, was unmistakable.
Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
I don't know if I'm jumping the gun here but using Phil Klass in any of your work taints it at this point. Reading about his antics today gave me heartburn, lol. http://www.nicap.org/reports/790827marshallco_clark.htm It's obvious that when you go to investigate a case your not supposed to have a decision on it until after or if ever. Reading this paper by Clark which gives a wide variety of cases, including Waltons as cases Klass was frothing out of the mouth on before investigating, taints his findings. It would taint the context to how he presents his findings, how he questions and what parts he shares, the tone in the inerview, whether he showed bias in the interview and as Clark points out he flat out lies on some key evidence. I'd recommend you go through your site on clean it up of Klass. Also, why don't you have a place on Klass himself and what a shit hole he is?
For what its worth i dont consider your reasoning is flawed
Your guess is as good as mine as the adage goes
You've weighed up the evidence and drawn a conclusion that you are comfortable with and thats fine
For me it was the fact that the crew got arrested on suspicion of murder and locked up. Putting myself in that situation i imagine that had this been a prank/hoax of some sort that would have been a moment when i would have said this joke has backfired and its not funny anymore.
But they stuck with their version of events regardless, passing lie detector tests to boot.
The sheer bulk of corroborating testimony, tested by lie detectors is why i fall on the side of it being a real event.
As for the detector test taken during what is a game show.........
We have to take their word for it he failed the test, The show is about entertainment and this case was an easy one for them to discredit and not pay up on. Given the question was alien abduction saving the prize money by declaring him a liar was unlikely to be called as BS by the audience.
He was an easy target, the show doesnt lose any credibility by saying he wasnt abducted by aliens, thats what most people would expect.
It would be like me failing the same test after claiming i saw santa go down a neigbours chimney, the audience wouldnt bat an eye over that test coming back as deceptive.
When i weigh up the lie detectors tests passed by the crew, against one taken on a game show.......... the balance of probability still favours the crews test results
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
I'm trying to ascertain the truth based on the available information, so I'm not going to dismiss information provided by Klass unless I have a solid reason based on the information itself for doing so. For example, if the tape recording Klass refers to doesn't actually exist or has been transcribed incorrectly, then I'm willing to look at that evidence. In the meantime I see no reason for someone like Klass to hoax a tape recording when it could so easily be exposed and completely ruin his reputation. There are other issues Klass dug up as well, which I don't feel is appropriate to continue repeating out of respect for Walton. Let's just say he's paid his dues, but in the context of the time period we're looking at, I see no reason to disbelieve or ignore Klass' findings there either.