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The Ultimate Remote Viewing Experiment?



Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
I think it'll be fairly obvious if someone sees something at Apple that we don't know about and pans out in the next few months.
 

Lori Williams

Paranormal Novice
Heres the thing Lori,
Gene put a call out for a RV volunteer,
His OP makes it clear hes seen creditable examples thus far, i myself have posted


As an example that supports the claim RV works here before.

You chose of your own volition to register here and post you are a "professional" and list a number of things as ersatz credentials.

But then go on to give flimsy excuse after flimsy excuse as to why you wont participate in the request posed in the OP

Litigation ? really ?, you could have provided the answers anonymously here no problem

Then we get emotive language like dog and pony show, and better things to do with my time etc etc.
Painting yourself as a victim of those nasty skeptics, whose game you wont play

I guess im left wondering why bother ?
Gene posted a thread designed to give those who claim RV works a platform to show it does, Your response far from advancing that cause, seems to have done the opposite imo.

But you got some "Free" adverstising for your business, so good for you.

I'm sure Gene will accept PayPal for your unsolicited ad though.
 

Lori Williams

Paranormal Novice
Hi, All,
To clarify on the question of actual coordinates, historically, the military believed coordinates (lat and long) were needed. Once targets started appearing for which no coordinates were possible, they realized coordinates were no longer necessary. Now, random coordinates are used -- usually chosen by the project manager, who utilizes various database fields to help him or her organize the material.

Mike, you are correct: It was definitely a mistake for me to engage in responding to Gene's original question. I'm not even sure how I came across the question, as I had never heard of this forum before. Gene seems like a very nice person, and I'm sure his question was in earnest.

Mike, your reply is the "snarky" type that keeps things interesting. I was hoping to contribute something useful, that a lot of us have discussed at length. There are a few attorneys among the remote viewers I know, and they bring up the dangers of litigation now and then when discussing certain types of targets. Your interpretation of my motives is incorrect, but that's ok. I'm sure you know that you are never wrong, LOL!

And Gene, there are definitely ways that the target you suggested could be made into a target for a viewing project. As someone on this list has already indicated, though, it would have to be assigned to a viewer(s) who was blind to the target. Knowing what the target is beforehand makes it difficult to view without interference from the conscious mind and the imagination.
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
Lori, you input here is appreciated.

I can only attempt to explain my reasoning on this subject. My personal impression of remote viewing is that it dwells in that same broad category of all things paranormal. It visits and affects us strictly on its own terms, refusing to yield to our attempts to utilize or study it by traditional cause and effect analysis. RV is supposedly practiced by use of "protocols" developed by dedicated teams in a research setting. To me, the term "protocol" implies some degree of control and utility. I don't mean to sound offensive, but I have not seen evidence of this, at least in the public sector. Such evidence should, in fact, become blatantly obvious over time.

Do I believe some remote viewers, at certain times, score impressions of remote objects and situations that lie outside the bounds of mere chance? I would have to say I do. But who or what is controlling the larger situation? This seems equally true of the UFO, which both stubbornly refuses to cease intrusion into our physical reality, but likewise succeeds in staying just beneath the threshold of conventional believability by actively denying itself in ways that are as astounding as the phenomenon itself.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Well, we certainly know the location of Apple's corporate headquarters. :)

Actually my intel indicates that the public location is merely a decoy and that the real location is hidden
in a secret underwater facility previously disclosed on another thread
... see video reposted below:

 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
Lori,

Has anyone attempted to use Remote Viewing to attempt to uncover what is behind Remote Viewing? Have you ever attempted it? If you have or will, could you share the results?

What is your best guess as to the mechanism behind Remote Viewing?
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
Lori,

Has anyone attempted to use Remote Viewing to attempt to uncover what is behind Remote Viewing? Have you ever attempted it? If you have or will, could you share the results?

What is your best guess as to the mechanism behind Remote Viewing?

I would think that would be a question for the Akashic Record, more so than the remote viewing process. There is something amiss here and darn it, I'd like to know what that missing link is all about.

I still don't understand this coordinate thing in the least. When I go to the people whom I trust (Targ/Puthoff/Smith/et al, the people at SRI) I see that coordinates are typically used. My question for Lori would be, when the term "random coordinates" is applied within the remote viewing process you're describing , does that mean they are "fake coordinates", or non specific with respect to actual target location? Or are they actual coordinates that are computer randomly assigned to a "blind" number of random viewers?

Remote Viewing leaves me with more questions than answers. If the process is one to be understood, real levels of descriptive certainty with respect to linear process must exist routinely. A seamless comprehensibility. And yet, every time I seem to think I have a handle on the concept, I am one step forward, two steps back. A perfect example would be Ingo Swann's Jupiter rings. When this experience took place, Swann was literally visualizing the planet from the perspective of space itself. Yet so much of what is described as being contemporary acquired RV signal line reception consists of a two party system wherein a documenter accompanying a viewer, record and subsequently decode a low signal to noise consciously acquired subconscious archetypical symbology to produce report. They aren't actually viewing anything wholly image based as if one were envisioning something. There still has to be some means of identifying the target location or orientation within the process however, correct Lori? I mean if all we are doing is making up random, meaningless coordinates, why do it at all? Very confusing, but intriguing as is imaginable.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
Lori,
Has anyone attempted to use Remote Viewing to attempt to uncover what is behind Remote Viewing? Have you ever attempted it? If you have or will, could you share the results?
What is your best guess as to the mechanism behind Remote Viewing?

I attempted to use the word "attempt" again in that post but the attempt failed, so I'll attempt again here. Sheesh. Sometimes it just ...

Obligatory relevant post:
If Remote Viewing is real and teachable to virtually anyone, the social and political consequences of its popularization would be incalculable and certainly undesirable. It would seem to me that any government sold on its validity would take whatever steps necessary to prevent its widespread and unregulated use.

Remote viewing is used in the 1978 Kirk Douglas movie The Fury. A movie about the weaponization of physic powers.
 

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
The misunderstanding is that only certain people are 'psychic' when in fact we are all receiving impressions of that order. We have not learned to 'tease out' the wealth of impressions that flow to and through us on-going. Some have - some are very clear as to what is and is 'not them', in a sense, and are adept to ascribing point of origin. Such individuals will confess to 'being psychic'.

The one problem with the below demonstration is that the man who picked out the picture, and has it secreted beside him, is actually in the room with the 'Remote Viewing' neophyte. What may be being demonstrated here is not 'remote viewing' but 'mind reading'.

A better demonstration would be if the 'remote viewer' has no contact with the person who does the pick and the numbers. The person the 'remote viewer' is with in the room should be as clueless as the 'remote viewer' as to the target choice - and should not even have any contact with the person who chose the target.

The question to all of this - I would assume - is mechanism. How does this happen? There has to be an idea/hypothesis regarding what is taking place for the experiments to have a chance at penetrating that 'mechanism' question.


I would think that would be a question for the Akashic Record, more so than the remote viewing process. There is something amiss here and darn it, I'd like to know what that missing link is all about.

The Akashic Record is a term used from ancient times. In a sense, it is a scientific term from out of a science that is no longer recognized - but it is as precise - from a particular time - as any term used currently in Quantum Physics (which may not do the term, or the ancients, justice, in fact ;) ). However, the thing about it is - that one must be actually at a certain level of awareness or sophistication or experience for the term to make any sense beyond the purely imaginative or sensational. As an idea it has a certain attractiveness - like a Dyson Sphere, for example - but shorn of personal experience it becomes just a term that gets bandied about without any real understanding, particularly of 'mechanism'.

The issue is that we cannot yet assume congruent ideas are taking place. 'Remote Viewing' is based on assumptions - so how it is interpreted is through the filter of those assumptions. From an occult perspective the demonstrations are messy and lacking in rigor - precisely because the subtle 'structure' of the human consciousness/awareness/mental gestalt vis-a-vis the world is really unknown in mainstream science. But we cannot yet say 'remote viewing' is the same as saying - pick a term - 'being psychic'. The science is too nebulous at this point - while the occult may be precise in a sense, those occult terms are also very old, and are in need of refinement themselves. Different times, different humans.

The summation of my thinking on the matter is that the demonstrations need to be far more 'blinded' - and that each demonstration is a reflection of the people involved. There may be different aspects of 'psychism' being demonstrated with different 'remote viewers'. That will only become clear with meticulous observation and record keeping. In fact, the experimenter must sophisticate and learn the subtleties of this arena and what the questions are that should be asked.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
I still don't understand this coordinate thing in the least. When I go to the people whom I trust (Targ/Puthoff/Smith/et al, the people at SRI) I see that coordinates are typically used. My question for Lori would be, when the term "random coordinates" is applied within the remote viewing process you're describing , does that mean they are "fake coordinates", or non specific with respect to actual target location? Or are they actual coordinates that are computer randomly assigned to a "blind" number of random viewers?

.

Did you not watch a single video i posted ?
The answer is in them
As Lori said, the military originally used longitude latitude co-ordinates, but geographic co-ordinates are limited in scope.
What do you use if the target is on the moon ? mars ?

The modern protocol is to use a set of 8 random generated numbers, associate these "co-ordinates" or as they are better known TRN's (target reference numbers) with the target.
These are used to start the session

Thats why this statement

To remote view anything you need precise coordinates. That's why I chuckle to myself when people bring up the missing plane and remote viewing. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Is invalid, one could take a photo of the plane, generate and assign a TRN to the photo and the viewer could go from there, The geographical co-ordinates are not necessary for such a task.

The adherants of Remote viewing claim they can RM the other side of the universe as easy as they can the house next door.......

In that context geographical co-ordinates ie Longitude/Latitude are small in their scope and not necessary (though they may have once been used as TRN's)
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
I was hoping to contribute something useful, .

And in my opinion you didnt

Sorry but i see this all the time with those claiming special powerzzzzzz

They internalise the
"i can do it" theme, while externalising the "i dont have to prove it" mantra

Sometimes there is a convenient escape clause, like i could curse you, but it would come back on me threefold so i wont...... But i can do it if i need to.....

I reminds me of the advice re falling off a horse or bicycle, ie get straight back on or your confidence will take a hit and cripple you mentally.

I see this time and time again with the woo woo brigade, a claim of amazing powerzzzzzz, but a convenient escape clause so they dont ever have to face a situation where that claim falls flat on its face. (and thus shatter that internal i CAN do it dialog)
Youve made lots of claims, but weve seen no real case examples, no testimonials. Just adverts for courses etc etc

If you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk.

Talking the talk, while insisting you dont gotta walk the walk for anyone is a hollow claim in my book

Just my opinion, its worth no more than the time it took to type, but then the same can be said for your claims here too

Its all good
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
For those who may think i'm being "snarky" , I just dont give out free passes to anyone who makes a claim

Ok, as a professional remote viewer and an instructor of remote viewing I have to comment on this one. What you are suggesting, Gene, is known as "corporate espionage" and is, technically, illegal. Just FYI. We live in a very litigious society, sadly, and therefore, as remote viewers, ethics and legalities end up playing a role in every target we choose to view.

Notwithstanding the remote viewer doesnt choose the target, we have a claim of "professional"

A skilled practitioner; an expert. person who engages in an activity with great competence.(of a piece of work or anything performed) produced with competence or skill

So we have a claim of great competence,

I present regularly at the International Remote Viewing Association conference, and have worked with police, archeologists, corporations and private individuals in countries all over the world. I demonstrate remote viewing quite

And then of course the hand out for money aspect

And like any professional (since I do this for a living), I'm sure everyone understands when I say "Sure! I'd love to do a demo! Would you prefer to pay via Pal Pal or Credit Card?"

Like Gene i have an open mind on RV, but ive also run across some shonky ppl, who make claim to RV skills

On one site i had not one but two people claiming to have great skills in this area RV me.
One claimed i was "not human"
Another claimed to have sensed an energy pattern identical to certain bad ET's they had been dealing with........

Of course the audience in this little circus lapped this up, it was far far more exciting then the sad reality neither of these two RV experts could actually get anything of any real substance in regards to me.

So you'll forgive me if i am unwilling to give a free pass to people who make grandiose claims, then stick their hands out demanding money, while simultaneously refusing to provide any evidence for the skill they want to charge money for.

I hear Silvia Browne's audience is looking for someone new to throw money at.

Its just not in my nature to hand out a free pass to someone making such large claims, who also refuses to provide any thing to substantiate those claims and then sticks their hand out and says give me money

Its nothing personal, but that pattern is an automatic red flag to me.

A professional, someone so good at the skill they lay claim to they get paid for doing it, shouldnt need to make excuses as to why they wont present a single example to back those claims.

Notwithstanding her first response seems to show a complete lack of understanding of even the basic premise behind the process, ie the viewer does not choose the target, doing so would invalidate the process. Something she later recognises on the fly

Knowing what the target is beforehand makes it difficult to view without interference from the conscious mind and the imagination.

Which contradicts the orginal statement

ethics and legalities end up playing a role in every target we choose to view

Sorry but between the contradictions, the claims of great skill, refusal to provide any proof of said claim, and the demand for money despite that......

Something doesnt feel right to me

We dont give Greer or Browne a free pass for this sort of stuff

Sorry but when someone claims they are so good at something they should be paid for doing it, but then refuses to demonstrate that skill, insisting the claim should stand without proof......
 

Kieran

Paranormal Adept
I'm on the fence about remote viewing.

Back in 2009, we actually featured a listener who claimed remote viewing abilities:

April 26, 2009 — Daz Smith

I think he was later banned from the forums, but he did produce possibly creditable results that demonstrated some sort of unusual abilities.

So listen here remote viewers, how about the ultimate "spy" mission?

As you know, Apple Inc. is famously secretive about future product development. Millions want to know if there will be an iWatch, an Apple connected TV, or even what form the next iPhone will take.

So if any of you believe you have the ability to see what's going on elsewhere, how about taking a trip to Apple headquarters in Cupertino, CA and tell us what you see?

Any takers?

Daz Smith, but he did produce possibly creditable results that demonstrated some sort of unusual abilities. Gene tell us more?
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
Did you not watch a single video i posted ?
The answer is in them
As Lori said, the military originally used longitude latitude co-ordinates, but geographic co-ordinates are limited in scope.
What do you use if the target is on the moon ? mars ?

The modern protocol is to use a set of 8 random generated numbers, associate these "co-ordinates" or as they are better known TRN's (target reference numbers) with the target.
These are used to start the session

Thats why this statement



Is invalid, one could take a photo of the plane, generate and assign a TRN to the photo and the viewer could go from there, The geographical co-ordinates are not necessary for such a task.

The adherants of Remote viewing claim they can RM the other side of the universe as easy as they can the house next door.......

In that context geographical co-ordinates ie Longitude/Latitude are small in their scope and not necessary (though they may have once been used as TRN's)
Did you not watch a single video i posted ?
The answer is in them
As Lori said, the military originally used longitude latitude co-ordinates, but geographic co-ordinates are limited in scope.
What do you use if the target is on the moon ? mars ?

The modern protocol is to use a set of 8 random generated numbers, associate these "co-ordinates" or as they are better known TRN's (target reference numbers) with the target.
These are used to start the session

Thats why this statement



Is invalid, one could take a photo of the plane, generate and assign a TRN to the photo and the viewer could go from there, The geographical co-ordinates are not necessary for such a task.

The adherants of Remote viewing claim they can RM the other side of the universe as easy as they can the house next door.......

In that context geographical co-ordinates ie Longitude/Latitude are small in their scope and not necessary (though they may have once been used as TRN's)

Mike,
Your video is by no means, the be all, end all, of remote viewing. I offered a link prior, or in response to the video that you posted, that apparently you basically ignored. It directly contradicts your claims about "random coordinates" and is coming from SRI which IMO, is about the only credible source for remote viewing information that I am familiar with.

Mike, I gotta state for the record. You have been mighty presumptuous lately. I showed you direct evidence that what you claimed concerning your short version of Schrodinger's cat experiement was wrong. Then I offered you a link in this very thread that you apparently didn't read yet. Have a look. Please man, your opinion is not the only one that matters here. OK?
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Mike,
Your video is by no means, the be all, end all, of remote viewing. I offered a link prior, or in response to the video that you posted, that apparently you basically ignored. It directly contradicts your claims about "random coordinates" and is coming from SRI which IMO, is about the only credible source for remote viewing information that I am familiar with.

Mike, I gotta state for the record. You have been mighty presumptuous lately. I showed you direct evidence that what you claimed concerning your short version of Schrodinger's cat experiement was wrong. Then I offered you a link in this very thread that you apparently didn't read yet. Have a look. Please man, your opinion is not the only one that matters here. OK?

I did read your link, but as stated thats an outdated method.

Your original premise that RV requires precise geographical co-ordinates is just flat out wrong, and the statement shows a complete lack of understanding of even the basic premise behind RV.

Opinions are one thing the facts another, the latter not being open to personal interpretation

The fact is the old geographical co-ordinates were used, and they worked in the same way as the random number TRN's that are now used
But they are limited in scope, they can only reference locations on earth and RV is allegedly capable of seeing anywhere in time and space

THE POWER TO KNOW
The breakthrough discovery made at Stanford was that accessing this vast data-bank of information was a trainable skill and by using specific rigid protocols information could be downloaded from the Matrix on demand. Highly trained "viewers" operate these protocols in the blind, meaning they have no pre-knowledge about the target. All they receive is a set of 8 numbers which are coordinated with the target.
The TRV structure results in an accurate transfer of information from the viewer's unconscious mind into conscious awareness, before the aware, creative, and analytical part of the mind has time to distort, contaminate, or otherwise interfere with the data flow. Target information is then converted into words or sketches, using only a pen and plain white paper. The process works whether the target is in the next room or on the other side of the world.
The technology has been refined over the last 25 years, and using double blind targeting with corroborating session work has created a highly accurate system for collecting information on any person, place, thing or event - anywhere and within any timeframe.

Home

Your question has been answered, by me, by the videos i linked and Lori. If you dont like the answer , fine. Feel free to believe whatever floats your boat

But your claim viewers need "precise (geographical) co-ordinates" is wrong, they dont.
Ive linked to demos that show RV can allegedly work just using random generated TRN's

As for the discussion about schrodingers cat, you claimed reality is created by conciousness, i countered that the universe aka reality is far older than conciousness, weve only been here 200,000 years tops.

Im satisfied ive made my case and dont intend to debate your nonsense any further

The universe existed long before conciousness, the claim conciousness creates reality is mystical nonsense. Yes conciousness filters and presents a limited picture of reality, but it cant "create" something that predates it by billions of years.

Dont confuse presents with creates, Conciousness presents us with a filtered view of reality, but it does not create it. How can it ?. Reality predates conciousness both on the macro and micro scale.
It existed before "we" as a species were conscious, and it existed before "you" as an individual was conscious.

Lesson over, class dismissed
 
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mike

Paranormal Adept
On a kinder, gentler note

Coordinate remote viewing is real, thats not in dispute.
Whats in dispute is the claim that

To remote view anything you need precise coordinates. That's why I chuckle to myself when people bring up the missing plane and remote viewing. Makes no sense whatsoever.

This is dead wrong and shows a lack of knowledge about the larger RV phenomena, you do not need precise (geographical) co-ordinates, it was to this inaccuracy that i responded.
You are chuckling from a place of ignorance and i felt duty bound to set the record straight.

Yes GCO's can be used, but they are not as your statement asserts as fact essential

Now let me kind of walk you through a typical problem to give you some sense of how it occurs. Lets assume an air plane crash, its relatively easy task to do, all we do is we take three of our viewers and we will tell those three viewers as much information about the crash as we know, a) it was an air plane, b) it was Pan-Am, c) it was flying over wherever, Colorado, and it was at such and such a time and it disappeared, and no one knows where it went, OK? What happened? The other three, now, we don’t do that, all we do with the other three is we give them a controlled coordinate, incidentally the controlled coordinate is not the coordinate of the plane crash site because we don’t know where that is, it is nothing more than a control for the controller of the exercise to measure that all of the remote viewers are on the same sheet of music.
Remote Viewing - Defense Intelligence Agency Coordinate Remote Viewing Manual (CRV Manual) |

Now on to that cat

Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility; on the contrary, the paradox is a classic reductio ad absurdum.

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not meant to be a serious description of reality

And we can demonstrate this with a revised version of the experiment.

Cat goes in box with the trigger mechanism of your choice , ie radioactive particles with a half life of X, or random gas release etc etx

We wait 150 years..........and open the box

Is the cat dead or alive ?

Its dead, the observer has no effect, its not in a state of quantum flux until the box is opened, its dead.
We could perform this experiment 10,000 times and it will be the same everytime, a dead cat
 

Jeff Davis

Paranormal Adept
I did read your link, but as stated thats an outdated method.

Your original premise that RV requires precise geographical co-ordinates is just flat out wrong, and the statement shows a complete lack of understanding of even the basic premise behind RV.

Opinions are one thing the facts another, the latter not being open to personal interpretation

The fact is the old geographical co-ordinates were used, and they worked in the same way as the random number TRN's that are now used
But they are limited in scope, they can only reference locations on earth and RV is allegedly capable of seeing anywhere in time and space



Home

Your question has been answered, by me, by the videos i linked and Lori. If you dont like the answer , fine. Feel free to believe whatever floats your boat

But your claim viewers need "precise (geographical) co-ordinates" is wrong, they dont.
Ive linked to demos that show RV can allegedly work just using random generated TRN's

As for the discussion about schrodingers cat, you claimed reality is created by conciousness, i countered that the universe aka reality is far older than conciousness, weve only been here 200,000 years tops.

Im satisfied ive made my case and dont intend to debate your nonsense any further

The universe existed long before conciousness, the claim conciousness creates reality is mystical nonsense. Yes conciousness filters and presents a limited picture of reality, but it cant "create" something that predates it by billions of years.

Dont confuse presents with creates, Conciousness presents us with a filtered view of reality, but it does not create it. How can it ?. Reality predates conciousness both on the macro and micro scale.
It existed before "we" as a species were conscious, and it existed before "you" as an individual was conscious.

Lesson over, class dismissed

This is TOTAL BULLSHIT Mike. Never, and I repeat I NEVER, stated that reality is created by consciousness. Please quote me where I stated what you claim I stated. What you did is claim that observation has nothing to do with the experiment, and that my friend is also total BULLSHIT.

Let me ask you a question Mike, if I could. Are you an expert on Remote Viewing? Didn't think so. Have you contacted SRI to actually learn for yourself what you are claiming to know and understand that you DO NOT, at all? Didn't think so.

BTW, I have responded to the BS Schrodinger's Cat post too. You are wrong there too when you claimed to be right. This is not a class room Mike. If it were you would be sitting in the corner facing away from the class, maybe with one of those little hats on, I dunno.

Self Importance does not serve you well Sir. I would suggest adopting a more so passive path with respect to matters theoretical, and as yet, uncertain.

Bye.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
At any one time, the sum total of all reality is contained between our ears. That includes everyone you meet. Apart from personal experience, they do not exist. .

Reality is subjective and does NOT exist apart from yourself or the human condition. Absolutely impossible to prove otherwise.

What utter nonsense, reality existed for billions of years before we had ears, and it most certaianly does exist apart from the human condition.

It existed long before we did, and would continue to exist long after we are all dust.

Conciousness is like the screen at the cinema, It is that which the movie is displayed on, it does not create the movie it presents it

You've made the mistake of thinking of SC as a real experiment, it isnt

Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility; on the contrary

It is more accurate to describe it as measuring the ignorance effect, the observer is ignorant of the cats actual state until he opens the box and looks in, but the cat is either one or the other it is not "both" thats a ridiculous premise

Not even schrodinger wanted to promote that as a serious proposition.
Schrödinger himself is rumored to have said, later in life, that he wished he had never met that cat.

As for being an expert in RV or any of the other silly questions youve posed in a desperate attempt to "not be wrong" i dont need to meet any of those conditions to prove

To remote view anything you need precise coordinates. That's why I chuckle to myself when people bring up the missing plane and remote viewing. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Is dead wrong

Ive posted links to target reference number generators on RV sites and videos showing viewers apparently doing a sucessful viewing using just a TRN and not precise geographical coordinates

The claim as absolute fact that you need precise coordinates, is proven false, it was so patently wrong i dont need to be an expert to prove it, the links and examples ive provided do that easily enough.

You were wrong, you dont need precise coordinates, get over it
 
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mike

Paranormal Adept
New Scientist TV: One-Minute Physics: Is Schrödinger's cat dead or alive?

Quantum physics postulates a strange superposition of multiple possible states simultaneously, a notion Schrödinger thought ridiculous, and he devised this experiment to illustrate to his Physicist peers ~why~ it was ridiculous. Contrary to popular belief, he was not trying to explain superposition to the general public.

The paradox is based on two things: it is difficult to collapse a quantum wave (which turns out the opposite is true) and that somebody 'special' with intelligence (aka a scientist) could collapse a wave simply by looking at it. These were ideas from back in the early 1900's. We now know for certain that people don't have to be around to look at something for a wave to collapse, quantum fluctuations happen all the time and will continue to do so long after we are gone. Also, it is very, very difficult to have any sort of macro object have a single quantum state. Look up Einstein-Bose Condensate to see what I mean.

Ok the cat is either dead or alive but not both. The cat is never in a superposition.
The actual experiment relies a bit or radioactive material(RM) and a geiger counter. You must wait until there is a 50% likelihood that the RM has released a particle.
At this point it is true that the particle exists in a superposition of both released and unreleased, but in order for the cat to die the particle must interact with the geiger counter. When it does the wave function collapses
THAT is the point of observation. not when the box is opened. Observation triggers the gas or gun powder. So the cat is either dead or alive, but not both

Umm... Have we considered that this thought experiment is NOT to be taken literally as it is a reductium ad absurdio to the Copenhagen theory which basically states that all things exist in a superposition until observed. part of this thought experiment was to mock the idea of observers and measurers, who is qualified to be an observer. This was never meant to be take seriously, it was meant to make a mockery of a terriblely thought out and not widely accepted school of thought.

Our opening the box does nothing to 'force nature' to collapse. Its alive or its dead whether we open the box or not. This is as stupid as 'If a tree falls in a forest and theres no one there, does it make a sound?'
Really, such thought experiments do nothing to establish the rational thinking of science and simply play into the hands of religionists who understand the use of smoke and mirrors better than scientists.

Schroedinger's Cat was a practical joke that nobody got.

Shrodingers cat, appears to me like so much semantic bable. Perception and the material world are two distinct yet separate aspects of the same reality ( Do scientists ever talk about this stuff) that we live in a closed (or semi closed) environment; thus in terms of cause and effect there can never be more than a finite number of potential possibilities. Perception is only one aspect of reality; perception is the natural outgrowth of our collective and finite potential; we are ever within the repetitive cycle of causal energy locked within the limits of our environment. perception can only mold and shape perception. By the way; one could also examine the whole psychosis behind the fixation on blowing up a cat. The cat, the bomb and Schrodinger are ephemeral constructs of memory which have no meaning outside of its functional contribution, to a proper understanding of ones orientation in nature.We do not construct nature we are constructed by nature
 

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