The Official Paracast Political Thread! — Part Four

[Bob Watson]

the real Robert E.lee!

 

[Tyger]

Word on the street: resignation. We'll see.

 

[Constance]

In followup tweets in response to questions, Schwartz predicted Trump would make a deal for immunity in the Russia investigation in exchange for his resignation.

Who would he make that deal with? Surely not Mueller. I don't think he'll be able to take this easy way out.

ETA: He can resign, of course, but that will just make it easier for him to be prosecuted for financial crimes and potentially even treason.

 

[Tyger]

Who would he make that deal with? Surely not Mueller. I don't think he'll be able to take this easy way out.

ETA: He can resign, of course, but that will just make it easier for him to be prosecuted for financial crimes and potentially even treason.

Can't say - it's all rumor. It'll come out in the end, I'm sure. But think it through - not hard to suppose who the 'who' is. There are several possible contenders. We'll see - could happen soon.

Likely scenario - Pence will pardon - and that is an admission of guilt. But he resigns 'easy' or he gets removed messily (Schwartz is giving heads-up - Trump's leaving). Like Nixon who got the phone call saying the votes were there to remove him - so he resigned. Trump is going to resign - or he gets removed.

BUT that does not mean our troubles are over. The Alt-Right Nazis stuff is pretty bad. Their reasoning is pretty warped.

 

[Constance]

Likely scenario - Pence will pardon - and that is an admission of guilt. But he resigns 'easy' or he gets removed messily (Schwartz is giving heads-up - Trump's leaving). Like Nixon who got the phone call saying the votes were there to remove him - so he resigned. Trump is going to resign - or he gets removed.

Who is Schwartz? I think there's no doubt that Trump will be removed from office (potentially under the 25th Amendment). But I question whether Pence can 'pardon' him for financial crimes and conspiracies uncovered by Mueller's investigation. One reason is that a pardon by Pence would further undermine the credibility of the Republican Party, and that party will try to avoid that loss of credibility and its future electoral prospects. But the major reason why Pence cannot pardon Trump is that to do so would undermine the credibility of our entire legal system.

BUT that does not mean our troubles are over. The Alt-Right Nazis stuff is pretty bad. Their reasoning is pretty warped.

Their 'reasoning' is fatal for democracy and social justice in America. It will take vast efforts to overcome its influence, and that will take a long time to accomplish.

 

[Tyger]

Who is Schwartz?

Co-Author (really, the writer) of Trump's 'Art of the Deal' book. Read the link from which I quote him. It was he who came up with the phrase 'art of the deal' - he feels he participated in creating the Trump mythology, and carries a sense of guilt about it.

I think there's no doubt that Trump will be removed from office (potentially under the 25th Amendment).

Well, actually, what I've heard up until recently is that he won't be removed - because of the 'unusual' nature of his base ('loyal' to him in particular). Until recently, they genuinely did not believe his removal would be accepted by that crucial 25%-30%. That may still hold true. I saw some news items today that suggest to me that Trump has 'survived' being removed at least for now (there has been a feeling his resignation was imminent - like within this coming week). But I wouldn't call it now. There's some serious behind-the-scenes maneuvering going on as we speak. The guy is a train wreck - yet his followers (and that's what they are) are blinded by the news echo chamber they inhabit. Reasoning with them is not possible.

But I question whether Pence can 'pardon' him for financial crimes and conspiracies uncovered by Mueller's investigation. One reason is that a pardon by Pence would further undermine the credibility of the Republican Party, and that party will try to avoid that loss of credibility and its future electoral prospects. But the major reason why Pence cannot pardon Trump is that to do so would undermine the credibility of our entire legal system.

I disagree. Nixon got pardoned. Generally there is a serious distaste for any party to see their president go to jail. If Trump went to jail there would be those looking for blood with the next liberal president. (We're still living with the pay-back for Nixon's forced resignation - that's why they went after Clinton the way they did). JMO.

If ever there were grounds for charges of malfeasance it was with the Bush/Cheney administration - what with going to war, lying to go to war in Iraq, the torture, the secret rendition - it goes on and on. Yet Obama and the Denoctras never touched it, even when they had the power to do so.

Trump will not be (allowed to be) jailed.

Their 'reasoning' is fatal for democracy and social justice in America. It will take vast efforts to overcome its influence, and that will take a long time to accomplish.

Have you had occasion to interact with those who are Trump adherents - alt-right - either in person or on the internet? You will despair. The beliefs are ground in, and loaded with alt-'facts'. This will take another generation (or two) to eradicate/educate out of our national psyche. It's always been there. Thankfully it's less openly tolerated. We are advancing (imo) though it's hard to see.

 

[Tyger]

Okay - he won't resign 'with dignity' - or voluntarily agree to an examination, so this is being set in motion - I am only reporting rumors, and D.C. is fraught with rumors these days. The emperor is mad - will the Pretorian Guard remove the emperor?

New Bill Would Require Donald Trump To Undergo Mental Health Evaluation
LINK: New Bill Would Require Donald Trump To Undergo Mental Health Evaluation

TEXT: A new bill introduced in the House of Representatives would require President Donald Trump to undergo a physical and mental health exam to determine if he is stable enough to stay in office. Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) introduced the bill on Friday. Should the results of the said exam be unfavorable, the bill calls for Vice President Mike Pence and members of the Cabinet to remove Trump from office.

The move would invoke the 25th Amendment, a rarely-used constitutional provision that allows the vice president and a majority of Cabinet members to jointly remove the president from office and replace him with the vice president. “Does the President suffer from early stage dementia,” Lofgren asked in a statement announcing the bill. "Has emotional disorder so impaired the President that he is unable to discharge his duties,” she continued. “Is the President mentally and emotionally stable?”

Lofgren pointed out that Trump has not yet released a “serious” medical evaluation to the public.

Zoe Lofgren’s Bill To Force Trump To Undergo Mental Health Exam by carla on Scribe. Lofgren, who represents California’s 19th district, is not a professional psychiatrist or psychologist, according to Mercury News. She doesn’t expect the bill to pass, but she told the newspaper “it will stimulate conversation,” adding that Trump would get the evaluation if “he cares about the country.”

Lofgren has often criticized Trump’s remarks and policies throughout his presidency. The representative suggested on Tuesday that “something is seriously wrong with President Trump,” responding to his off-the-cuff remarks on the Charlottesville white supremacist riot made during an impromptu Q&A with reporters in New York. “Why can’t he just condemn Nazis,” she asked on Twitter. “Unscripted words today show who he really is. Shameful!”

Lofgren isn’t the first politician or critic to suggest invoking the 25th Amendment to boot the 45th President out of the White House. In June, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Maryland) led 25 House Democrats to co-sign a bill that would also oust Trump from the Oval Office under the amendment. Commenting on his bill, Raskin told Yahoo News “in case of emergency, break glass.”

Articles and op-eds exploring the 25th Amendment in detail have also sprung up on Washington Post, Rolling Stones, New York Times and Time Magazine since Trump took office. Meanwhile, Trump has continued to draw ire from the country for everything from his policies on immigration, Muslim travel bans and dangerous health care bills, to remarks that suggest that there are “fine people” who attend a white supremacy rally. And this summer, the hashtag #25thAmendment began trending on Twitter.

That’s why Lofgren is calling for Mike Pence and other Cabinet members to “quickly secure ... medical and psychiatric professionals” to evaluate Trump’s mental health and any possible impairments. “If it was a physical ailment, you would be getting the advice of doctors,” Lofgren told Mercury News. “The same thing should be true to take a look at his stability here.”

This article originally appeared on HuffPost .​

 

[DaveM]

The idea that a Republican Congress and Senate along with VP Pence would sign off to have Trump removed is so much silliness. Does anyone truly believe Pence would get behind that?? The last time I checked the Republicans not the Democrats controlled all the branches of the government. Trump may be a royal asshole and racist but it will take more than a Democratic bill to remove him.

Also, beware of what you wish for. Do you really want a globalist like Pence to be your next president. What is that Chinese saying? "May you live in interesting times."

 

[Tyger]

The idea that a Republican Congress and Senate along with VP Pence would sign off to have Trump removed is so much silliness. Does anyone truly believe Pence would get behind that?? The last time I checked the Republicans not the Democrsts controlled all the branches of the government. Trump may be a royal asshole and racist but it will take more than a Democratic bill to remove him.

I agree in principle - the main rumble I have always heard is that Trump will not be removed. But the reason given is usually connected with his base. It's just that some (maybe) credible stuff came out this weekend that movement was afoot regarding resignation, willing or unwilling. We'll see. His actions are getting to be just too difficult to predict and are having problematic impacts globally.

Also, beware of what you wish for. Do you really want a globalist like Pence to be your next president. What is that Chinese saying? "May you live in interesting times."

Isn't Pence already running things?

 

[DaveM]

I agree in principle - the main rumble I have always heard is that Trump will not be removed. But the reason given is usually connected with his base. It's just that some (maybe) credible stuff came out this weekend that movement was afoot regarding resignation, willing or unwilling. We'll see. His actions are getting to be just too difficult to predict and are having problematic impacts globally.

Isn't Pence already running things?

I will wager that Trump won't step down of his own accord. If you know anything about this guy, he fights back at every turn. He didn't get to be where he is at by having others roll over him. He would have to be removed and you need Republican backing for that. Pure and simple.

Secondly, Pence is a cagey individual. He will never come across as trying to run anything on his own. He wants to be president outright and he can afford to sit back and see how things play out.

 

[Tyger]

I will wager that Trump won't step down of his own accord. If you know anything about this guy, he fights back at every turn. He didn't get to be where he is at by having others roll over him. He would have to be removed and you need Republican backing for that. Pure and simple.

Well, that's the rumor - that the Republicans have had enough. Trump may be impacting 2018 - and that they will not allow. That's why the 'let him run his course this first term (with some handling)' is being re-thought. 2018 looms - the mid-terms.

 

[DaveM]

Midterm elections are where you count on the party base to come out and vote. I have my doubts that many Republican politicians want to piss off those voters that can always be counted on to show up at the polls. Time will tell how it all plays out.

 

[Constance]

Not enough of the Republicans in Congress have yet "had enough" to support a 25th amendment move on Trump. The primary threat has been that Trump might directly trigger a nuclear war with North Korea, but by now the Joint Chiefs of Staff have most probably disabled his ability to do that (just as was done toward the end of Nixon's administration). Given the likelihood of this, I'd rather see Trump remain in office until the results of the Mueller investigation are publicized, at which point we can hope that impeachment proceedings are initiated and succeed. After that, once out of office, Trump and his cohorts can be prosecuted for a variety of criminal behavior. Indeed, some of his cohorts are likely to be charged with criminal offenses before the whole truth about Trump is disclosed. This might all turn out to be an opportunity for the American public at large to become educated about this country's shameful sociopolitical history, the vital importance of maintaining individual constitutional protections for everyone, and the privileging of private corporate interests in our current laws, which has undermined our ability to create and sustain a rational and just domestic economy based on human rights and humane values.

 

[marduk]

The idea that a Republican Congress and Senate along with VP Pence would sign off to have Trump removed is so much silliness. Does anyone truly believe Pence would get behind that?? The last time I checked the Republicans not the Democrats controlled all the branches of the government. Trump may be a royal asshole and racist but it will take more than a Democratic bill to remove him.

Also, beware of what you wish for. Do you really want a globalist like Pence to be your next president. What is that Chinese saying? "May you live in interesting times."

Actually, there are now very few ways the GOP can exit Trump without being seriously harmed by putting him there in the first place.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the ways being considered.

 

[Constance]

Actually, there are now very few ways the GOP can exit Trump without being seriously harmed by putting him there in the first place.

Right. They can't 'win' either way, nor should they since they ran and supported this imbecile and have failed to control his behavior..

I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the ways being considered.

Not clear which approach you're referring to.

 

[DaveM]

Perhaps it's time to hear from the sage.... George Carlin.

 

[marduk]

Right. They can't 'win' either way, nor should they since they ran and supported this imbecile and have failed to control his behavior..

It would be very easy to claim he came down with some random condition after he took office. No harm, no foul, the GOP tried to support him as long as they could, until it threatened 'Merica!

Because patriotism, #winning or something.

Not clear which approach you're referring to.

Claiming mental instability for a reason for putting their second stringer (Pence) in.

 

[marduk]

Time to press the panic button? Young Republicans ditching the party like never before

The Memo: GOP fears damage done by Trump

The GOP is losing their future and they know it. Expect the damage control (house and senate) to swing in and try to curtail Trump for fear of losing control. He'll resist it of course, and then an open revolt may happen.

Many in the business community have started to expect a regime change in the next 6-12 months, and many don't think it will be clean. Or even peaceful.

Watch the markets. When they swing, it may have already begun. Many of these same folks running your country also have business to run and boards to manage... they'll secure them first.

 

[marduk]

Oh, and the infighting. Let's not forget that a platform built on being anti-establishment means that once you become the establishment, if it doesn't go their way, they become anti-you.

Steve Bannon Readies His Revenge

Analysis | Where GOP senators stand on President Trump

James Murdoch’s Rebuke of Trump May Signal a Shift

 

[marduk]

What I find seriously odd though is why the Democrats seem to be utterly leaderless and rudderless right now. Why aren't they organized, coherent, and providing a clear alternative to Trump?

It's like he keeps throwing them softballs and they're running into each other while nobody catches the ball.