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The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is?

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trainedobserver said:
. . .

We hate and war on one another over misconceptions about ourselves and our place in the universe. Imagine what would happen to the collective human psyche if we had proof that we are living inside a manufactured and controlled environment created for purposes only the non-human creators can understand? A new religion or two maybe, but I wonder if we wouldn't just continue on in our daily routines or ruts, as the case may be, and just accept and forget it.
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Isn't that the gist of At The Mountains of Madness? And, more obscurely, The Man Who Found Out - by Algernon Blackwood?
 
smcder said:
lol - no, no I just think both of those stories are very disturbing, there was an effective version of The Man Who Found Out as "Need to Know" in the new Twilight Zone series (1986) . . . it ends with a lot of screaming . . .
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Perhaps I should have said, "Great minds think alike.", but I'm too humble and unassuming to suggest such a thing. (ah-hem)

Could it be that Lovecraft, Blackwood, Fort, Keel, and the like were right? Or is it just a function of worst casing the scenario? What is the worst thing? Well, we could be accidental creations of uninterested monstrosities. I think that is the gist of Lovecraft.

I don't recall reading the Blackwood story before. Thanks for the link.
 
trainedobserver said:
Perhaps I should have said, "Great minds think alike.", but I'm too humble and unassuming to suggest such a thing. (ah-hem)

Could it be that Lovecraft, Blackwood, Fort, Keel, and the like were right? Or is it just a function of worst casing the scenario? What is the worst thing? Well, we could be accidental creations of uninterested monstrosities. I think that is the gist of Lovecraft.

I don't recall reading the Blackwood story before. Thanks for the link.
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Of course they do!! ;-)

Here's a link to The Man Who Found Out
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Four Weird Tales, by Algernon Blackwood.


There are also some good audio versions of Blackwood here:


LibriVox | free public domain audiobooks


Files are free to download - volunteers read just about anything in the public domain and do a pretty good job of it.
 
trainedobserver said:
Now there is a prickly bit, best approached with a stick in hand. Are some UFO and paranormal activity shadows of the elf machinery, the Kuroko, the cosmic stagehands and maintenance men who keep this side-show attraction open? Are all of the concepts of gods and extraterrestrials vain attempts to hold the inconceivable and unpalatable notions that humanity is alternately the kept creatures of nonhuman intelligences or flukes of the universe at bay?

We hate and war on one another over misconceptions about ourselves and our place in the universe. Imagine what would happen to the collective human psyche if we had proof that we are living inside a manufactured and controlled environment created for purposes only the non-human creators can understand? A new religion or two maybe, but I wonder if we wouldn't just continue on in our daily routines or ruts, as the case may be, and just accept and forget it.
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Haven't we already forgot? If it were natural for the human mind to remember it's ignorant and oppressed nature, we would have stopped existing as a species a long time ago. It is our nature to forget, retool, and to forge ahead.

We have been reminded of this proverbial slippery slope by the likes of Lecomte Du Nouy in his 1947 blockbuster Human Destiny.

th


It's a dismal tale of how what we have dismissed and forgotten will surely be our undoing. I will admit, mankind seems awfully good at getting ahead of itself.
 
trainedobserver said:
Now there is a prickly bit, best approached with a stick in hand. Are some UFO and paranormal activity shadows of the elf machinery, the Kuroko, the cosmic stagehands and maintenance men who keep this side-show attraction open? Are all of the concepts of gods and extraterrestrials vain attempts to hold the inconceivable and unpalatable notions that humanity is alternately the kept creatures of nonhuman intelligences or flukes of the universe at bay?

We hate and war on one another over misconceptions about ourselves and our place in the universe. Imagine what would happen to the collective human psyche if we had proof that we are living inside a manufactured and controlled environment created for purposes only the non-human creators can understand. A new religion or two maybe, but I wonder if we wouldn't just continue on in our daily routines or ruts, as the case may be, and just accept and forget it.
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Suicide cults would abound on a very high order, and be of a manner so wildly disturbing and bizarre that society would begin to reorganize itself and abandon consumerism as our current panacea. Instead we would opt for the discovery of new maths in order to better comprehend our insignificant captivity and attempt to make contact with our gods. This movie will be starring a cloned Charles Heston with Kubrick, who is not really dead after all, at the helm of the camera in his A.I. cyborg body to create the first ever deterministic sci-fi movie that will move the masses.
 
But if it's all Lovecraftian then there is nothing to be done. All the horror authors worst case the scenario of existence, as do a lot of painters like Goya, then there's all that dark, droning electronica, and really, what's to be said about Black Metal? If that's one end of the Fortean Spectrum then the other is filled with sweetness and light, where the Space Brothers serve us Ambrosia while baby bigfoots play and gamble about on the lawn.
 
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Burnt State said:
Suicide cults would abound on a very high order, and be of a manner so wildly disturbing and bizarre that society would begin to reorganize itself and abandon consumerism as our current panacea. Instead we would opt for the discovery of new maths in order to better comprehend our insignificant captivity and attempt to make contact with our gods. This movie will be starring a cloned Charles Heston with Kubrick, who is not really dead after all, at the helm of the camera in his A.I. cyborg body to create the first ever deterministic sci-fi movie that will move the masses.
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Well, if we can work a car chase and running gunbattle in there somewhere, it might work.
 
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Burnt State said:
But if it's all Lovecraftian then there is nothing to be done. All the horror authors worst case the scenario of existence, as do a lot of painters like Goya, then there's all that dark, droning electronica, and really, what's to be said about Black Metal? If that's one end of the Fortean Spectrum then the other is filled with sweetness and light, where the Space Brothers serve us Ambrosia while baby bigfoots play and gamble about on the lawn.
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That's the worst thing about Bigfoot parents, isn't it? - that they allow their children to gamble! And on the lawn, no less. ;-)
 
Burnt State said:
But if it's all Lovecraftian then there is nothing to be done. All the horror authors worst case the scenario of existence, as do a lot of painters like Goya, then there's all that dark, droning electronica, and really, what's to be said about Black Metal? If that's one end of the Fortean Spectrum then the other is filled with sweetness and light, where the Space Brothers serve us Ambrosia while baby bigfoots play and gamble about on the lawn.
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Suicide cults would abound on a very high order, and be of a manner so wildly disturbing and bizarre that society would begin to reorganize itself and abandon consumerism as our current panacea. Instead we would opt for the discovery of new maths in order to better comprehend our insignificant captivity and attempt to make contact with our gods. This movie will be starring a cloned Charles Heston with Kubrick, who is not really dead after all, at the helm of the camera in his A.I. cyborg body to create the first ever deterministic sci-fi movie that will move the masses.

It seems like Prometheus is just such a movie?

I'm curious about the roots of these ideas - . . . that we're being manipulated and can't trust our perceptions, that the phenomena stays one step ahead . . . Lovecraft, Forte and Vallee obviously, the Trickster concept but where else do these ideas come from and who champions them in the paranormal field now?
 
smcder said:
I'm curious about the roots of these ideas - . . . that we're being manipulated and can't trust our perceptions, that the phenomena stays one step ahead . . . Lovecraft, Forte and Vallee obviously, the Trickster concept but where else do these ideas come from and who champions them in the paranormal field now?
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John Lash talks about the Archons although I don't put him in the same category as Vallee, Fort, or Keel.
 
Constance said:
Yes.
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ok, i don't want to bring catholicism into all of this but in case you are not familiar with transubstantiation here's a primer: the wafer and wine become the body and blood of christ during its blessing on the altar, where in fact what is present, especially for the faithful, is no longer bread and wine - only the accidents of bread and wine are said to be remaining. what is now actually present is the body and blood of JC. the ufo artifact, especially the witness statement, (and even the photo to some extent), is kind of like that for me, but then catholicism can have that effect on you when your version of reality has been impregnated with a certain gestalt since a very young age.

i wonder about the role of perception, in what is seen, and like Bigfoot, whether or not you can actually take a picture of an alien craft, in that perhaps it exists in the form that it is reported in only in the minds of the witness because of the sociocultural inputs programmed into that specific mind to see the world in the way that they see it. the ufo is the accident that remains when someone's paradigm of reality, operating with a limited sense perception apparatus and power of recall, encounters what they believe to be is some other extreme "otherness," akin to god in its distance from us, and or inability to touch, grasp or comprehend it.

so i wonder if in things like the McMinnville photos that what we are seeing is perhaps just a mundane object from that era that merely looks like what our cultural expectations of a UFO are? i mean as far as objects go, it is just two still frames with some distinct movement, albeit, and that's pretty damn curious. but i also think that it is rather curious that it looks like something from a b-movie of that era. so i'm still pretty reserved about giving it a yes, but a curious yes.

skull.jpg

ufo's for me are still a state of mind.
 
smcder said:
I'm curious about the roots of these ideas - . . . that we're being manipulated and can't trust our perceptions, that the phenomena stays one step ahead . . . Lovecraft, Forte and Vallee obviously, the Trickster concept but where else do these ideas come from and who champions them in the paranormal field now?
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i don't know about the paranormal field, but i do believe that the collective psyche of the planet suffers from an incredible self-esteem complex. we don't like to admit it but the way we treat the host body, that is also us, is like an anorectic, bulimic, cutting, depressed teenager that doesn't want to talk about it, or admit any of their many, many mistakes and insecurities. and no matter how you try to get us to think better of who we are, we just continue to wage war on ourselves in a relentless fashion. we perpetuate an indifferent self-complex that says if i ignore it all, i can pretend those cuts all over my arms and thighs are not real; they don't exist. i can get better later on, perhaps. and so it goes.

i think the roots of this whole thing is that we are a very immature species with great potential that needs to grow up still. we show great signs of ingenuity, imagination and inventiveness, but we're quite shortsighted and lack patience. maybe we'll get to the stars, if we don't self-destruct first. maybe then we'll learn to think a little more highly of ourselves and our varied capacities.
 
Derek Wood said:
The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is? [Note I am not referring to UFOs here]

So lets have it. What data forms the most convincing evidence for an IAC? Eg Radar evidence from confirmed sources, multiple and independent video sources?

What are peoples thoughts in this issue? Seems to much of the debate centers on ambiguous, disputed or anecdotal evidence.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
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I think the evidence pool is so polluted that it is getting near impossible to see the good.
 
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