The 1980 Cash-Landrum sighting and investigation

[Randall]

Something I wonder about is how burning (jet) fuel/flames, could cause radiation burns? If the craft was nuclear powered, would it still produce flames? (I know nothing about nuclear propulsion.) It seems odd to me that the craft would have both chemical and nuclear propulsion systems. The assumption that there was a nuclear aspect to the craft comes from the symptoms experienced by the witnesses, right? Would burning fuel/flames cause similar symptoms? I don't believe so.

Something I found out while doing some reading on rocket engines like those used to launch things into space, is that in addition to high temperatures they also produce UV and microwaves. However I don't know how intense they are or how close a person needs to be to be affected. I also found out that nuclear engines apart from those proposed for nuclear pulse powered interstellar ships don't release radioactivity from the reactor itself. Instead the nuclear reactor is used to heat fuel such as liquid hydrogen in a sort of heat exchanger operation.

 

[Constance]

Something I found out while doing some reading on rocket engines like those used to launch things into space, is that in addition to high temperatures they also produce UV and microwaves. However I don't know how intense they are or how close a person needs to be to be affected. I also found out that nuclear engines apart from those proposed for nuclear pulse powered interstellar ships don't release radioactivity from the reactor itself. Instead the nuclear reactor is used to heat fuel such a liquid hydrogen in a sort of heat exchanger operation.

ufology, I am trying to get back to the message zone to answer the question you asked me there, but I'm unable to connect to it. Would you send me a 'click here' message so that I can access it by clicking the notice of your message (and would someone help me understand how to generate a message to a member)? Thanks for any help. I am not technically very savvy, but in this messaging attempt I feel as if I am in a maze.

 

[Randall]

ufology, I am trying to get back to the message zone to answer the question you asked me there, but I'm unable to connect to it. Would you send me a 'click here' message so that I can access it by clicking the notice of your message (and would someone help me understand how to generate a message to a member)? Thanks for any help. I am not technically very savvy, but in this messaging attempt I feel as if I am in a maze.

The interface is a little vague at first here, but once you get used to it, it works OK. Messages here are called "Conversations". Access them by going to the dark menu bar at the top and on the right hand side ( right above the Search box ) select the "Inbox" link. It will open a drop down menu of recent conversations, or if the conversation isn't listed, select "Show All", and a window will open showing all available conversations. Select the one you are looking for and it will open so you can view the exchange.

 

[Constance]

Thanks, ufology. I just looked there. I appear not to have an "Inbox" link. The link farthest to the right above the search box on my screen is labeled "Rocktoids," and it is from just beneath that label that notices of responses to my posts and messages have appeared. Once I've clicked one of these, the rest disappear and I cannot reaccess them. What to do?

 

[Randall]

Thanks, ufology. I just looked there. I appear not to have an "Inbox" link. The link farthest to the right above the search box on my screen is labeled "Rocktoids," and it is from just beneath that label that notices of responses to my posts and messages have appeared. Once I've clicked one of these, the rest disappear and I cannot reaccess them. What to do?

It's further over to the right. If you don't see it, it's probably because your browser window isn't wide enough. Use your horizontal scrollbar or touchscreen to show the rest of the window on the right hand side. I don't know what kind of computer you're using, but it may also help for you to increase your screen resolution. I use a widescreen monitor, so it's really great for seeing everything.

 

[Constance]

I do have a widescreen monitor, and I can see the far right edge of the graphic box (rounded edge at the top) that contains the visible links. There is twice as much of the dark background to the right of "Rocktoids" as there is to the left of "Home" on that menu bar. Is the "Inbox" link positioned outside that menu bar? If so I can try to "increase my screen resolution" as you suggest. I gather that I will have to do that through the menu within my free standing monitor??, or is it something I approach from within the devices within the computer itself? {I'm almost like someone from a low-tech planet about these things.}

 

[Constance]

We had a major power failure in my area just as I posted the above post. Took out even the phone system. It's now working and I am still trying to figure out how to access the messaging system here. Windows automatic system restore could not restore my operating system, so I contacted my DSL server's IT service and had help getting back in operation, but I forgot to ask the IT tech for help changing my screen resolution.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Windows has a control panel setting for display resolution. Or would you rather not go there?

 

[Trajanus]

Rocket or jet like flames shooting out of the bottom while making a loud noise is not indicative of an alien craft,

I already cited Socorro and a few other cases. It was certainly unlike any known terrestrial craft.

It also doesn't seem reasonable to think that the operators of the craft decided to come all the way to Earth just to expose some random humans to their exhaust fumes,

Testing of a radiation weapon could be worthwhile and going "all the way to Earth" may be no problem for ETs.

These factors don't mean the object wasn't alien. It just means there isn't sufficient reason to think it was. It all seems much more terrestrial in nature.

C/L was a third of a century ago. By now it would probably be obsolete and declassified yet nothing of the sort has ever come to light.

 

[Sentry]

By now it would probably be obsolete and declassified yet nothing of the sort has ever come to light.

That's probably true. I'm neither pro or con the craft's origin, I just want to look at the facts. If it was an experimental aircraft, what was its purpose? These kinds of things are built to fulfill a specific mission, usually transportation, weapon delivery or reconnaissance. We don't have many clues beyond its size, shape and flight, as the other characteristics and behaviors may have all been due to a malfunction.

With its shape, size and implied mass, I can't figure where or how it would land. There could be retractable landing gear, but once down, it would have to be hidden in a collossal hanger to protect it from enemy eyes. There were some aerial/satellite systems that were recovered mid-air by plane or helicopter instead of landing, but the size of this object would seem to make that unlikely. However, it is possible that the witnesses overestimated the size of the object.

There was a real, secret development going on just before the Cash-Landrum incident, the modification of a C-130 Hercules for STOL (short take-off and landing). They hoped to use it to transport the rescued hostages in an aborted mission to extract them from Iran. It was called Credible Sport, but it was cancelled after failing, dead by Fall month before the UFO incident.

Check the video of the test flight failure, just to compare it to whatever you imagine the military could build at the time, under desperate circumstances with an unlimited budget.

Credible Sport​

​

​

 

[Randall]

I already cited Socorro and a few other cases. It was certainly unlike any known terrestrial craft.

I don't think the Socorro craft was alien either. It also seemed to operate on technology that was available to us at the time.

Testing of a radiation weapon could be worthwhile and going "all the way to Earth" may be no problem for ETs.

I don't think we can assume that getting here from there ( wherever that is ) is "no problem", even for ETs. The reports suggest that large mother ships ( carriers ) are used. It may take them many years to reach a destination, and to suggest that they'd do it just to try out some relatively primitive hazardous technology doesn't seem sensible.

C/L was a third of a century ago. By now it would probably be obsolete and declassified yet nothing of the sort has ever come to light.

Maybe it wasn't one of ours, but a foreign nation's that we just happened to have on loan for while. Or maybe it was mothballed, chopped up into little pieces and forgotten. There could be several other reasons why we don't know who built it. There is also the remote possibility that it might have been alien, but as indicated previously, the report suggests conventional technology in an unconventional configuration, not something from out of this world.

 

[Randall]

That's probably true. I'm neither pro or con the craft's origin, I just want to look at the facts. If it was an experimental aircraft, what was its purpose? ... With its shape, size and implied mass, I can't figure where or how it would land.

Have you considered the possibility that the Cash/Landrum object may have been a lighter than air transport and that it may have landed by mooring itself to something rather than relying on heavy gear?

 

[Sentry]

Yes, on the last page:

HAPP, an unmanned blimp remotely powered by microwaves. Just another mugshot to look at.

LTA devices are used, then and now, for purposes such as aerial surveillance and to see/transmit over the horizon. The size and flight characteristics match, but don't explain the flames seen, the injuries or anything else.

 

[Randall]

Yes, on the last page:
LTA devices are used, then and now, for purposes such as aerial surveillance and to see/transmit over the horizon. The size and flight characteristics match, but don't explain the flames seen, the injuries or anything else.

Well, the flames could conceivably have been as simple as it being a hot air balloon with a big burner that the witnesses misidentified due to the glare and darkness. Or perhaps it was a controlled buoyancy system with some small jets for maintaining altitude and maneuvering. The injuries and intense heat aren't explained by those options though. So that part is still curious, unless the injuries are actually unrelated. Cool blimp there too BTW. I saw that posted earlier. It's interesting that it's powered by microwaves.

 

[Constance]

Windows has a control panel setting for display resolution. Or would you rather not go there?

Hi Gene. Thanks for pointing that out. I had some tech help last night. The technician resolved the problem I had had seeing the Inbox link.

 

[Sentry]

I put up a new post at the blog, and let the witnesses do the talking.
I hope you'll take a look and report what you think.
Blue Blurry Lines: From their own lips: Betty Cash, Colby & Vickie Landrum tell their story

 

[boomerang]

This case is a prime example of what appears to be shadow government technology or collusion with ET. I am re-reading "The Mirage Men" by Pilkington and I have to admit it is so far making a very persuasive case for expertly crafted spoofing of the masses--the Breakaway Civilization at work. So yet again, I am wondering if much of what we think we are seeing is stagecraft and illusion for high level political purposes.

Let's see....today is Tuesday. I can hang on this branch of the "All Possibles" tree for today and Thursdays and then back to The ETH or EDH the rest of the week. Call it systematic confusion.

 

[Trajanus]

I don't think the Socorro craft was alien either. It also seemed to operate on technology that was available to us at the time.

I don't think so, in part because the rockets that got it off the ground only functioned briefly. Then there were the little men--seen in association with a rocket propelled UFO on at least one other occasion.

I don't think we can assume that getting here from there ( wherever that is ) is "no problem", even for ETs. The reports suggest that large mother ships ( carriers ) are used. It may take them many years to reach a destination, and to suggest that they'd do it just to try out some relatively primitive hazardous technology doesn't seem sensible.

They could have hidden bases in our solar system and testing the effects of radiation on us

Maybe it wasn't one of ours, but a foreign nation's that we just happened to have on loan for while. Or maybe it was mothballed, chopped up into little pieces and forgotten.

They kept no records? You'd think if the engineers or others behind it were aware of the ruckus it caused, by now one or more would've come forward.

There could be several other reasons why we don't know who built it. There is also the remote possibility that it might have been alien, but as indicated previously, the report suggests conventional technology in an unconventional configuration, not something from out of this world.

There should be some documentation in that case, or a clear identification after 33 years.

 

[FilmguyLee]

I may not know all the facts of the case, and am certainly not in any way an expert on it, but even so, from what I do know of it, I do not even remotely believe that this was ET technology.

But I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Sentry]

I got some feedback on another forum about the witnesses not remaining uniform on their description of the sighting details. I thought I'd share my reply here:

I struggled about how to represent Betty Cash describing the shape, because what little she said about it did not reflect the original statements:

"Plaintiff BETTY CASH could not discern any distinct shape. To plaintiff VICKI LANDRUM the UFO appeared to be oblong with a rounded top and a point on the bottom. To plaintiff COLBY LANDRUM the UFO appeared to be diamond-shaped."
From a statement by Peter Gersten, lawyer representing the witnesses in the Cash-Landrum, a "More Definite Statement", dated March 23, 1983:
(Found on page 18 of http://www.cufon.org/cufon/cashlanL.pdf )

These descriptions appear to be based on those filed by John F. Schuessler in his preliminary Project VISIT report which was distributed in early March 1981 to MUFON, APRO, CUFOS and FUFOR.

I've made this point before, but Betty and Vickie seem to have adopted Colby's version after a few weeks (possibly because it was the most favorably received). Schuessler interviewed VL almost a month after she first reported the incident and she had told the story to several reporters by that time and was subjected to Colby's multiple attempts to make drawings of a diamond-shaped UFO.

In the Bergstrom interview she refers to the shape, but only as the sketch she has drawn for them:
"Its supposed to be a diamond shape, but its not very good."

In interviews there are descriptions that seem inconsistent "ball of light", long white light", but the sighting was not static. The UFO was seen first as a light flying horizontally behind trees, then hovering at close distance vertically over the road, later flying horizontally at medium distance while followed by helicopters, and finally several other times from greater distances as they drove away from it. The witnesses gave very poor descriptions and do not differentiate between the situations they are describing. Examining Vickie Landrum's statements, she does not always differentiate the object from the light it was producing. By the time they tell the story several times and are asked leading questions by UFO investigators, their testimony possibly becomes contaminated.

I don't see a big problem however with the colors described, as they all are describing illumination and fire-like effects. It is interesting that in the earliest accounts that it is not definite that the object is venting flames:
"The whole road ahead and around it glowing as if by fire. I believe it was fire because it glowed down and let up a little" -VL from tape recorded early Feb. 1981 at Parkway Hospital.

After a few tellings, it went from fire-like, to flames like a rocket's exhaust. As with the object's shape, the media and UFO investigators seized on the more definite and dramatic version.