Sun 17th Jan 2010 - John Carpenter on Leonard Stringfield

[Gareth]

Haven't finished yet and am enjoying what Ive heard so far.

I just wanted to make one quick comment before I forgot about. I find the idea this Air Force base in California would put together a report ON PAPER describing the UFO event with the "unknown being" and "being of unknown origin" and "the recovery team from Wright-Patterson AFB" etc. kind of absurd.

Does anyone else agree? The relevant parties were told and threatened with God knows what not to say a single thing about what happened, yet there is a hard copy floating around describing the whole event. I don't buy it. Not saying Carpenter or Stringfield are not being truthful, but if I had to put money on it I would say it was probably disinformation.

In 1996 was there cultural contamination regarding the UFO subject in Australia? Of course there was. Not only books but movies and the biggest thing would be TV and documentaries. Also even the Internet, despite a very different beast than it is today, there were absolutely online boards that covered UFOs that were accessible world wide (for the most part).

 

[Apocalypto]

Hello,

I just got through the preamble, and stopped the "tape" to comment on David's negative remarks about last week's preamble. David, I thought last week's preamble was kind of funny. It's all good, brother. Don't sweat the details. I actually find it entertaining and refreshing to hear you and Gene chat in an open and honest manner, prior to bringing on the guests.

It's yet another element that sets your show apart from the other stuff out there. I mean, does anyone else agree with me that those droning, painfully boring 7-10 minute guest-background preambles that Binnall does on his show are annoying and useless as hell? I want to hear the guest, and if I need to research the guest, I can do that offline.

I'd much rather hear you guys shooting the shit in an intelligent, topical manner than waste my time hearing about how your guest went to university here, then worked here, then worked there, then won this award here, then wrote this book, then went to work here, then won anther award, then moved to this city where he wrote his latest book... oops. I'm asleep.

 

[Gareth]

David, I must be wrong about this, but I could have sworn it was James Fox himself who claimed that Cooper didn't actually see the craft.

I guess I'm misremembering there?

 

[jkoci]

I actually had a chance to listen last night. Great information was given and some of it I have never heard before. As Dave was reading from Wikipedia on Leonard Stringfield I decided to follow along.

Wikimedia Error

I also found this while looking up Carpenter.

 

[EQ42]

Much of what Carpenter had to say didn't strike me as being all that credible- yet he seemed to present it as fact.

 

[Kieran]

David, I must be wrong about this, but I could have sworn it was James Fox himself who claimed that Cooper didn't actually see the craft.

I guess I'm misremembering there?

Don't think your wrong. But I am not sure. I do remember reading a thread on the the Paracast forums about Coopers claims. Carpenter let us not forget said, towards the end of the show. That he had in his hands a signed document our statement from Cooper. Where Cooper claimed to have personally filmed the UFO landing in the desert. I wonder has he handed a copy over to Gene and David?

But there could be a problem. If Cooper said on the James fox documentary, that he was not a witness or had seen the UFO land. Cooper; I saw the film/pictures of the UFO when they where given to me. Then there will be more questions. Two different versions been given is problematic.

Carpenter and David. Where discussing the inside of the UFO, and how some people who claimed to be have been abducted. Had said the UFO had more space and volume. The Travis Walton story flashed into my mind. When I was listening to this segment of the show.

A short summary. Travis was abducted by a UFO, Woke up surrounded by small humanoids. Escaped from that room and found another room. A Human looking man entered, took Travis away. To another large room where he saw other ships and the encounter ends shortly thereafter.The craft that he saw and his fellow workers saw in the Forest. In my opinion, took Travis to some other destination. The size of the craft witnessed by Travis and those men. Is not large enough, to hold other ships based on the accounts that I've read and heard from Travis himself. We can speculate. Anyway the accounts from other Abductees just remained me of that Travis Walton Story.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As you recall, Carpenter said he had a document signed by Cooper that he promised to get for us. So let's just give him a little time to dig it up, OK?

 

[Ezechiel]

Crunchy nuggets for me were the consistence in abductee accounts... especially the description of ET ship control panels (geometric shapes). Would be great to build a 3D composite of the interior of the craft based on abductee accounts showing each described item and the number of abductees describing the item and who extracted the information. Hieroglyphic type text was also described.

Too bad disclosing the composite could only be done once... With new abductee accounts you'd have a hard time trying to figure if the information was new or coming from the disclosed composite.

Another weird crunchy nugget is the idea that space can be distorted, perhaps by manipulating gravity, to offer an interior space that appears to have more volume than the actual size of the ship. A 30 foot saucer could actually be a mothership holding many more 30 foot craft.

// wild speculation start:
Perhaps some of these craft are not craft but simply special containers that offer a window to another area in space/time (the interior comes from somewhere else ) . A kind of travelling port hole manipulated remotely... some kind of trick these aliens have mastered. Perhaps an indication that they have decoded and are currently exploiting the fabric (vibrating strings ?) that supports our universe.

Once properly positioned in our time/space, exploratory craft could leave these pseudo-motherships/'porthole containers' and start abducting local life-forms.
// wild speculation stops

Fascinating stuff

 

[David Biedny]

// wild speculation start:
Perhaps some of these craft are not craft but simply special containers that offer a window to another area in space/time (the interior comes from somewhere else ) . A kind of travelling port hole manipulated remotely... some kind of trick these aliens have mastered. Perhaps an indication that they have decoded and are currently exploiting the fabric (vibrating strings ?) that supports our universe.

Once properly positioned in our time/space, exploratory craft could leave these pseudo-motherships/'porthole containers' and start abducting local life-forms.
// wild speculation stops

I was trying to get to that point - perhaps these craft are more than just self-contained vessels, they might be some sort of interface between our dimensional construct and something else completely, a concept that's VERY difficult to wrap one's brain around. Perhaps they are powered from an external source, hence, no sound or obvious power/propulsion system.

dB

 

[jimbo83478]

David, concerning last week's preamble: I'm not complaining, and it's not my business to tell you how to behave, but since you brought it up I figured I would offer my opinion. Something as petty as name-calling isn't even worth acknowledging. It isn't necessary to defend yourself against meaningless jibes. Those of us who regard the show with high esteem really don't give a damn about what name someone else calls you - we just want to hear you and Gene get down to business. That being said, I certainly understand your defensive position and it is, after all, your show..so do as you will. Smack talk is smack talk - you can either ignore it and play game, or head butt Reggie Miller in game 3 of the 1993 playoffs.

 

[Ezechiel]

I was trying to get to that point - perhaps these craft are more than just self-contained vessels, they might be some sort of interface between our dimensional construct and something else completely, a concept that's VERY difficult to wrap one's brain around. Perhaps they are powered from an external source, hence, no sound or obvious power/propulsion system.

dB

You'd need a galactic civilization (Type 3) with an infinite amount of energy (perhaps the energy of a thousand suns at your fingertips)

// along that wild speculation line...
Somehow they seem to have the ability to instantiate metallic looking outer shells out of nothing (which serve as space/time anchors... under my scheme lol) near planets in solar systems light years away... and from that point, seem to be able to remotely move these shells to any space point, in a linear or jump like fashion as they adjust the instantiation to a convenient location (requires instant feedback/response).

The life-line providing the energy and supporting that kind of control is beyond my imagination and obviously lies beyond our known dimensions (and known limitations).
The interior of what appears as a 30 ft shell could well be a tunnel to a designated area of their own home world (deck of an aircraft carrier lol)

Somehow, the problem of transfering organized matter between two very remote locations seems to have been solved and requires manipulations beyond space and time dimensions.

... like you said no sound, no propulsion system Just an infinitely complex support system that works outside space/time constraints.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I met John back in 1996 when we both spoke in MO at the "Show Me" UFO conference. He had just returned from Varginha, Brazil and gave an interesting talk about the still on-going case. He struck me as a really sweet, bright dedicated investigator and his abduction work (IMO) is arguably the best in the business. But having said this, I heard rumblings back in 2000 that "business" was how he viewed the confidential medical files of the 130 to 140 abduction victims that he had worked with since '90. According to sources that I know, Carpenter SOLD his abduction files to Bigelow for "$14,000." Now, I have never talked with John directly about this, and it seems highly out of character, but it would have been interesting to hear David (Mike Wallace) Biedny get to the bottom of that particular lurid story.

As far as Stringfield's work, I always felt that there is quite a bit of disinfo sprinkled through his data. He may have been too chummy w/ some questionable types and may have been led down the garden path a bit. But, having said that, he still was the top expert in the subject and I recommend his book The UFO Siege. I corresponded with him back in '93 about a crash retrieval case I heard about that occurred in the Great Sand Dunes/San Luis Valley in 1969 that was witnessed by two Stanford U archaeologists and their son. He thanked me for the info but never followed up on it. He died a year or so later, if I remember correctly...

 

[AdamI]

This was by far one of the most interesting episodes ever!

But before I describe why I think this, I have to say that I think Stringfield's data is full of misinformation. The dead giveaway for me was the "larger inside than outside" stuff. Some of the other stuff was a bit hard to accept, but still possible. This on the other hand is just too much for me.

I can think of only three possibilities for how something could be bigger inside than outside. All three of course rely on totally unknown physics and may be impossible.

1) Something is actively deforming space-time within the craft, making it literally larger inside.

2) Something about how the craft is constructed or what it's made of are accomplishing #1 in a passive way. (By passive I mean in the engineering sense of not requiring a constant input of energy.)

3) The craft is actually "virtual" in that it's not really here. In reality it exists in another dimension or lightyears away.

Now let's assume for the sake of argument that one of these is true, and that the craft really is this way. Now let's put on our thinking caps for a second and consider two important facts. First of all, the craft supposedly crashed. When things crash they get damaged, or at least experience some shock. Secondly, these craft were supposedly carted off to hangars by naked monkeys who proceeded to then monkey around with them without knowing how they work. As anyone who's seen a cat walk across a keyboard knows, this makes exotic pieces of technology do strange things.

It seems to me that some combination of crashing, carting around, and being monkeyed with would break each and every possible exotic means of creating or maintaining such a known-physics defying condition.

Take #1: an active system. We can create superconductivity and other exotic states using active cooling, EM fields, etc. But when you turn off whatever is creating the state, nature returns to equilibrium and the exotic state vanishes.

#2, a passive system, could be compared to a forced vacuum such as that found within a picture tube. There's a reason picture tubes were nicknamed "fire bottles" as anyone who has ever broken one (or shot one with a BB gun like me!) has discovered. When you puncture the skin of the tube, the forced "exotic" state (the vacuum) explosively returns to equilibrium.

Finally, #3... a "virtual object" representing something distant. In this case, I find it hard to even imagine what would happen if you tried to pick up this "portable hole" (remember those from the old cartoons?) and move it around, let alone cut into it or mess with it. But I can't imagine one of the following not happening: a) they turn off their remote presence and the object vanishes, b) you trigger some nasty side effects of the physics and get a "Chernobyl suntan" or worse, or c) you get messed with back by whomever is controlling the other side of the connection. Option a) seems most likely to me.

So given all that, which is probably way more than I needed to write, what's more likely? Something so absolutely unimaginably exotic that none of the above applies, or disinformation cooked up by some intelligence agency spooks or other organized hoaxers?

Now that all that's out of the way, back to the point I wanted to make. Before anyone flames, keep in mind that I'm putting forward a hypothesis.

The reason I found this show so fascinating is the combination of someone (Stringfield) who sounds like an honest character by all accounts, outlandish information relayed to him that doesn't pass the sniff test, and the fact that he was given this stuff before almost anybody else.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me propose that we have a "patent zero" here.

Patient zero for what? For a really big disinformation scheme whose purpose is either to cover up whatever's really going on or, alternatively, to experiment with the creation, dissemination, and manipulation of cultural myths. Either one is possible, or maybe even a combination of both.

I call him "patient zero" because he apparently "presented" with this disinformation infection before anyone else.

So to me the biggest thing to do here is to dig, dig, dig, and find out who Stringfield was in contact with and under what circumstances he was fed this stuff. Doing that might tear open the whole government disinfo / psy-op side of the mystery, or if it wasn't government then reveal who it was.

Edit: if I'm wrong, then the obvious question to ask is: what happened to these dimensionally-asymmetrical marvels when they were cut into, transported, or otherwise messed with?

 

[Schuyler]

You'd need a galactic civilization (Type 3) with an infinite amount of energy (perhaps the energy of a thousand suns at your fingertips).

Not pickin' on you, Zeke--just using you as a jumping-off point! I kind of like David's overall theory here. I don't think you'd need a Type 3 to do it. A Type 3 controls all the energy of a galaxy, and I'm not sure you'd need that much to support small craft between dimensions.

I'm reminded of The Difference Engine: Amazon.com: The Difference Engine (Spectra special editions) (9780553294613): William Gibson, Bruce Sterling: Books. Thought not one their better books, the idea here is that computer 'technology' was discovered in the 1800s more or less accidentally, and that this changed the course of the future. Note that hey didn't have advanced technology like integrated circuits, but they had the idea: Binary code, punched cards, and programming. They used a steam engine to manipulate it.

In a similar vein, the idea of inter-dimensionality having practical applications could have been discovered accidentally by 'whomever' and put to practical use to achieve the kind of phenomena we see today, but do not understand.

Sometimes it doesn't take much. I remember reading that when Neils Bohr, the physicist, first read Einstein's 4-page paper on relativity, his reaction was that, "The world is forever changed." Perhaps scientific discoveries about the natural world are inevitable once we start poking around, but exactly when discoveries happen must be in part due to chance. Once the groundwork is done there is no guarantee an Einstein will show up at just the right time to exploit the foundation that has been laid. What if he'd shown up AFTER quantum mechanics? What of he'd shown up in 1800?

I'm a fan of Tesla, and I have wondered what would have happened had Tesla not agreed to tear up his contract with Westinghouse on electricity royalties and instead suggested they simply move the decimal point a couple of places to the left. Tesla would have had enough money to exploit some of his more outlandish theories and who knows what would have happened? Instead he died in poverty.

I've said elsewhere here how frustrating it is to have speculation overtake established facts, but in this case we simply don't have established facts to go on. I'm thinking we need to at least keep our options open here in case we can nail down some more facts to help us along. Obviously this is just a gut feeling on my part, but I think we ought to poke around some more in this realm.

 

[Apocalypto]

It always fascinates (and disappoints) me to hear researchers come on the show and:

1) Talk down to the hosts/audience, like this is the first time they've heard very commonly known details about a significantly historic UFO case
2) Show ignorance about certain cases, yet are openly willing to make incorrect statements about key details

I'm not saying Carpenter falls into the first category, but there was a taste of it there. As far as the second category, Gordon Cooper was not present when the UFO landed. That information was clearly publicized. Any and every researcher who is worth his weight should be aware of that before commenting. The Cooper UFO event is huge, and any new informational development should be noted by a good UFO researcher. Cooper did look at the developed film through a window, prior to the film being picked up by the military. Also, he said he clearly saw what had been filmed on the developed roll, but that he was not on-site as the craft landed and was filmed.

As far as the craft being larger on the inside, absolutely possible. It's completely, 100% feasible. Unless and until we get to truly understand even half of the details of some of these flying saucers, how can we begin to judge that something like that is not possible? How can we be so presumptuous as to speculate on the internal dimensionality of a craft that we don't understand, a craft coming from perhaps even another dimension, not necessarily even just from a physical location?

 

[Tim Beckley]

Unless Cooper told two versions of what happened -- he DID NOT see the saucer land. I know because he called me on the phone to set the record straight about some things he thought I had said on a radio program (which it turned out someone had misquoted him on). I spoke to him for about a half hour. If you check on the net a lot of posts quote the incident directly from my book MJ 12 AND THE RIDDLE OF HANGAR 18.

he WAS stationed at Edwards when the object landed. The craft was photographed and the film was turned over to him. He screened it several times. It was shown on the dry lake bed resting on landing gear and than it shot up. It was not one of ours he maintains. He also believed in crashed discs, and he was involved in an incident over Germany where they came over the base two or three days in a row and were picked up on radar and gave chase.

He didn't see them land.

I also want to see that letter -- I know what Cooper told me personally.

Otherwise, good show.

 

[Gareth]

Yeah Im almost positive it was James Fox who had the information on his last interview (that Cooper didnt actually see the craft - I'm going to listen to that ep. today).

 

[Apocalypto]

I realized only later today that I came across as overly cynical in my last post and just wanted to say that.

Yeah, I just took a good nap (had a long day), and upon waking up I decided to come back and say: I enjoyed the show. It was good. And Carpenter had some very interesting things to say.

Thanks guys.

 

[Ezechiel]

I'm not sure you'd need that much to support small craft between dimensions.

// Totally wild speculation starts....
I'm not talking about it as a craft but more as an exotic fabrication that is instantiated in our solar system, serves as a mobile star gate and can be controlled from extremely remote locations . The insides of the craft would be configured with exotic matter and generate its own artificial wormhole looping back to a location near its home world. (From which other crafts with more physical world properties can emanate).

Just testing 'string theory', building the physics foundations and deriving the supporting technology would require a hadron collider the size of this solar system (orbit of pluto).... according to Stephen Hawking

 

[Tim Beckley]

Well there is no debate about the matter - Cooper told me exactly what happened over the phone and the subject has been covered on several other tv interviews. I have a private taped conversation which is not mine to release to the public where he covers the same ground. But its an honest msitake. I can see how anyone could make it. We always dont remember all the facts. Len Stringfield was one of my earlier "influences" - I remember reading his 3 O Blue book. Its available free on the web . Just google it if interested.