Stanton Friedman to Research Billy Meier??

[Creepy Green Light]

I stumbled onto this today (it's recent from October 2015). This has got to be misleading, one would think. I can't see Stan wasting his time & resources to investigate a known fraud. Anyone else see/hear this?

From conflict to communication, a new step is taken in pursuit of the truth

A scheduled two-hour debate regarding the Billy Meier UFO case, between nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman and Michael Horn, appeared to transform into a conversation wherein Friedman, an expressed opponent of the Meier case, agreed to participate in an actual investigation of the evidence that he admitted being unfamiliar with.

Learning also that his own concern for future generations (including his own grandchildren) is addressed in Meier’s specific warnings about, and recommendations regarding how to overcome the dangers humanity faces on numerous from the environmental destruction to wars and terrorism, resulted in Friedman’s announcing that he would welcome a cooperative approach to evaluating the Meier case, which Horn has long referred to as the “key to our future survival”.

Hopefully, because Friedman is both a scientist and a UFO researcher, other parties, such as SETI, MUFON, etc., will also wish to participate in the investigation.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Ok, I just listened to this. I'm baffled why Stan would even waste his time to talk to Horn. Here's my question; does Horn authentically believe that the Meier case is real or does he know that it's a hoax but continues to perpetuate it because he makes $ from it?

What makes this painful to listen to is knowing that it's all fake but hearing how passionate Horn is regarding the case.

 

[William Strathmann]

He seems convinced on the Paracast about 9 years ago.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Oh yes, THOSE shows. They got far more reaction than the last appearance from David Jacobs.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

The general consensus in the UFO field, well at least those who participate in podcasts and radio etc is that Michael Horn is not a nice guy and furthermore is dishonest. I mean, he must be the only person who has caused Alejandro Rojas to say negative things - when an all-round nice guy of Ufology says yer bad - YER BAD.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Oh yes, THOSE shows. They got far more reaction than the last appearance from David Jacobs.

Yikes!

 

[Mulvaney]

A scheduled two-hour debate regarding the Billy Meier UFO case, between nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman and Michael Horn, appeared to transform into a conversation wherein Friedman, an expressed opponent of the Meier case, agreed to participate in an actual investigation of the evidence that he admitted being unfamiliar with.

That is the problem with debates of this type. It's like the Scott Ransey v. Kevin Randle debate here over the Aztec crash. One party is going to have been immersed in the details and it really is a no-win situation for the other side.

There are some people that it's not worth debating. And now I suppose Horn will be able to say that Friedman was forced to back down and take Meier's claims seriously. But to me it all comes down to one question: Asket or Semjase?

 

[Jack Nathaniel]

And here it is:

Facts for Stanton Friedman: Exposing Michael Horn's lies told during the debate on X-Zone radio show
UFO-Prophet: Facts for Stanton Friedman: Exposing Michael Horn's lies told during the debate on X-Zone radio show

Apparently Michael Horn didn't like Stanton's skeptical stance, and so just as expected published a blog article attacking his character.
The Sad, Cynical Legacy of Stanton Friedman

 

[Randall]

On top of the obvious fake photos there's this tidbit:

"In ufology, the Pleiades is best known for its association with contactee Eduard Meier, who originally claimed to have been contacted by extraterrestrials from a planet in the Pleiades cluster. However when astronomers pointed out that the location provided by Meier did not correspond to any of the stars in the Pleiades cluster, Meier started adding that the Pleiadians were actually from the "Plejares" star system, alledgedly beyond the Pleiades. When astronomers continued to scan along the line provided by Meier past the Pleiades cluster, they found no star systems in range there either. So Meier started adding that Plejares was actually in another dimension just out of synch with ours by a fraction of a second. Needless to say, both skeptics and genuine ufologists tend to dismiss Meier's story as a hoax." Source​

 

[Wade]

It makes me wonder if any there were any inhabitants of any planet revolving around any of the stars that make up the Pleiades cluster would they have any concept there was such thing as a Pleiades cluster? What we see from our pov would be radically different from what these beings would see.Being that these stars are light years away from each other they probably bear no tealationship to each other from their pov. It would be as if our sun along with other stars made up some constellation that was perceptible from other solar systems and we identified ourselves from that constellation.

 

[Randall]

It makes me wonder if any there were any inhabitants of any planet revolving around any of the stars that make up the Pleiades cluster would they have any concept there was such thing as a Pleiades cluster? What we see from our pov would be radically different from what these beings would see.Being that these stars are light years away from each other they probably bear no tealationship to each other from their pov. It would be as if our sun along with other stars made up some constellation that was perceptible from other solar systems and we identified ourselves from that constellation.

Assuming there were civilizations in the Pleiades Star Cluster advanced enough to have astronomical telescopes, it wouldn't take them long to realize that they are part of a star cluster. Additionally, given that the average distance between each star is only about 1LY, interstellar travel would be a tempting endeavor. So at the outset, the Pleiades seems like a good place to look for alien life. But another detail that proponents of aliens from the Pleiades tend to overlook, is that because the star systems are also fairly young, planets around them are still in the early stages of formation, so it doesn't seem likely that any civilizations have had enough time to evolve there yet.

 

[Wade]

Interesting, I didn't know they were that close to each other. Their gravitational influence on each other must be quite strong. Would this make it more difficult for planets to fully form if so would they not tend to stop at the very large gas stage until the stars that make up the cluster started migrating away from each other?

 

[Randall]

Interesting, I didn't know they were that close to each other. Their gravitational influence on each other must be quite strong. Would this make it more difficult for planets to fully form if so would they not tend to stop at the very large gas stage until the stars that make up the cluster started migrating away from each other?

A Light Year is still a significant distance when considering the effects of gravity. Not that there wouldn't be any influence. Gravity does affect things at great distances, but the effect is much like that of light, conforming to the inverse-square law, which states that the effect diminishes at a rate inversely proportional to the square of the distance. So at the distance of a LY ( 5,878,499,810,000 miles ), the effect of gravity from a typical star is rather small, probably not significant enough to make much of a difference in planetary formation around other stars that far away.

When dealing with planetary distances, the common unit is the AU ( Astronomical Unit ) which is about 93,000,000 miles, significantly shorter than a LY. But even at these distances the gravitational influence of other planets is marginal. However that starts to change rather rapidly when planetary sized objects get within about a million miles. The Moon, for example, at about a quarter million miles, affects the Earth in measurable ways that impact our lives ( e.g. tides ). So one can imagine the effects of something exceeding the mass of Earth.

Hypothetically a huge Jupiter like planet could turn Earth into one of it's moons if it were to pass by at just the right distance and speed. The gravity from Jupiter is so powerful that it is theorized, and pretty much accepted, that the asteroid belt never coalesced into a planet because of the gravitational disruption of Jupiter. So returning to your initial idea, there's actually some logic to it that makes sense, even if the details were a tiny bit fuzzy .

 

[Wade]

So In this case though the stars themselves are massive blue gas stars thus I would assume would create a somewhat larger gravitational "bowl" on the space surrounding them. also is there any reason to consider that any habitable rock planets could have formed but much furthur out than would be normally be accepted, say like where Jupiter is in our system?

 

[Wade]

The gravity from Jupiter is so powerful that it is theorized, and pretty much accepted, that the asteroid belt never coalesced into a planet because of the gravitational disruption of Jupiter. So returning to your initial idea, there's actually some logic to it that makes sense, even if the details were a tiny bit fuzzy .

That would make sense but I thought it was because they were located in a transitional zone where the solar system goes from smaller rock planets into the giant gas planets. I think that was part of the reason Pluto got delisted as a planet, not so much it's size per say but because the reduced gravitational influence from the sun would make it less likely that such a planet would be formed in such a way that far out.

 

[Randall]

So In this case though the stars themselves are massive blue gas stars thus I would assume would create a somewhat larger gravitational "bowl" on the space surrounding them. also is there any reason to consider that any habitable rock planets could have formed but much furthur out than would be normally be accepted, say like where Jupiter is in our system?

This is one of the things I love about ufology. Even something like the Meier case can lead to these excellent discussions around real scientific studies. My astronomical knowledge and experience is minimal, consisting of an intro course at university in which we used the telescope at the Rothney observatory to view Jupiter and it's moons, and from that apply Kepler's Laws to estimating its mass. Also, the entry on the USI site about the Pleiades is somewhat out of date. More stars have been confirmed to inhabit the nebula, but basically the principles and basics are still the same.

There are a lot of stars in the nebula. The brightest we can see without optical aid, but it is accepted that there are actually hundreds, perhaps even more. So there are a lot of combinations and possibilities, including binary star systems, which would definitely have some complex gravitational interactions that would affect the way planets around them would form. So in some cases it may be exactly as you suggest: Planets aren't likely to form around some stars. Other stars may not have that problem; but then there is still the general timing of it all where it seems that planetary formation is still in the early stages, and any planets that have formed haven't likely had time to evolve complex life, let alone advanced space faring civilizations.

That would make sense ( about Jupiter ) but I thought it was because they were located in a transitional zone where the solar system goes from smaller rock planets into the giant gas planets. I think that was part of the reason Pluto got delisted as a planet, not so much it's size per say but because the reduced gravitational influence from the sun would make it less likely that such a planet would be formed in such a way that far out.

I'm mainly going off memory, so maybe there's been some new discoveries or theories that take into account the transitional zone. It does seem to make a certain amount of sense, so maybe it's not Jupiter alone that is responsible for the asteroid belt, but a more complex combination of factors. I like to think of myself as fairly well informed, but thanks to these discussions, maybe some review wouldn't hurt either .

 

[Wade]

ye

This is one of the things I love about ufology. Even something like the Meier case can lead to these excellent discussions around real scientific studies. My astronomical knowledge and experience is minimal, consisting of an intro course at university in which we used the telescope at the Rothney observatory to view Jupiter and it's moons, and from that apply Kepler's Laws to estimating its mass. Also, the entry on the USI site about the Pleiades is somewhat out of date. More stars have been confirmed to inhabit the nebula, but basically the principles and basics are still the same.

There are a lot of stars in the nebula. The brightest we can see without optical aid, but it is accepted that there are actually hundreds, perhaps even more. So there are a lot of combinations and possibilities, including binary star systems, which would definitely have some complex gravitational interactions that would affect the way planets around them would form. So in some cases it may be exactly as you suggest: Planets aren't likely to form around some stars. Other stars may not have that problem; but then there is still the general timing of it all where it seems that planetary formation is still in the early stages, and any planets that have formed haven't likely had time to evolve complex life, let alone advanced space faring civilizations.


I'm mainly going off memory, so maybe there's been some new discoveries or theories that take into account the transitional zone. It does seem to make a certain amount of sense, so maybe it's not Jupiter alone that is responsible for the asteroid belt, but a more complex combination of factors. I like to think of myself as fairly well informed, but thanks to these discussions, maybe some review wouldn't hurt either .

Yeah i was going to add earlier that although i'm not in favor of derailing a thread, if a thread does get derailed i'd rather it be an informative discussion not some rancorous pissing contest. Although i could probably find out answers to these elsewhere i have a full plate when it comes to things i want to bone up on and if i come across somebody who knows his stuff and/or has a reasonable thought on it, i'll go in that direction in doing so it usually brings up another question. the man i work for ( and i count as a great friend) has always said i tend to rube goldberg things up, i just like to think that i think differently©™

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Back in 1990, I used to get this UFO mail order catalog. It had all kinds of products to order, articles, etc. I bought two Meier VHS tapes. The Beamships and Contact (at least thats what I think the names were). I bought into Meier before seeing these tapes. I saw the Stan Friedman documentary (UFO's Are Real - which is on YouTube by the way) and in it they do a piece on Meier. Between being freshly discharged out of the U.S. Navy, I took to heart what a retired Air Force (Captain I think) Wendelle Stevens had to say regarding the Meier case. I don't think it was until my 30's did I realize what a fraud Meier was and I (along with Stevens and many others) was duped. Oh well, live and learn.

PS - I guess at least I'm not so dug in on the case that I stand by it.

 

[Randall]

Back in 1990, I used to get this UFO mail order catalog. It had all kinds of products to order, articles, etc. I bought two Meier VHS tapes. The Beamships and Contact (at least thats what I think the names were). I bought into Meier before seeing these tapes. I saw the Stan Friedman documentary (UFO's Are Real - which is on YouTube by the way) and in it they do a piece on Meier. Between being freshly discharged out of the U.S. Navy, I took to heart what a retired Air Force (Captain I think) Wendelle Stevens had to say regarding the Meier case. I don't think it was until my 30's did I realize what a fraud Meier was and I (along with Stevens and many others) was duped. Oh well, live and learn.

PS - I guess at least I'm not so dug in on the case that I stand by it.

I remember all that stuff! I also have an old VHS of Friedman's too. I keep thinking I should do a VHS > DVD transfer of it. Part of the fun of ufology is the old memorabilia. I wonder if anyone has any of Wilhelm Reich's cloudbusters hanging around in their back yard ... LOL ?

 

[Jack Nathaniel]

Can't start a new thread just for this, so posting here.

This is by far one of the most shameful frauds exposed in ufology, but "just an another one" in the Billy Meier case:
As a Man Stealeth: Billy Meier and his stolen spiritual teachings « Billy Meier UFO Research

Meier was shown to have ripped off James Allen's AS A MAN THINKETH (1903) book and published as his own book in 1998 (german) and 2012 (bilingual english-german edition).