Partly a dream, but possibly an abduction

[nameless]

I've never done 'shrooms. I'm quite the nerd.

u need to change ur profile image big time.

 

[Kim323]

When I was reading Rick Strassman's DMT The Spirit Molecule, I remember thinking all through it, wow, I wish I could have volunteered for his study. It was under such strict guidelines, while still giving him leeway to adjust doses step by step, etc. The protocol was impressive. It took place in the University of New Mexico Hospital, and my old pappy after heavy combat in the South Pacific in WWII got his bachelors and masters from UNM on the GI Bill after the war, so it had a bit of a link for me.

But Dr. Strassman was clear that it did elevate heart rate, and of course the subjects were all being monitored. I got the book down and here are some chapter titles, and I really recommend the book:

What DMT Is
The Pineal: Meet the Spirit Gland
Being a Volunteer
Getting DMT
Under the Influence
Introduction to the Case Reports
Unseen Worlds
Mystical States
and a host of other riveting chapters.

By the way, I've watched the documentary also on DMT, and while it is good, it tends to be a bit lightweight compared to the book. But the book is not tedious at all, it really holds you.

So, I don't know now if I would actually try it, even under controlled conditions with a doctor, and certainly not in any other way. But its effects on people were really stunning, during the period after Dr. Strassman's injection, and afterwards both short term and long term. Kim

 

[pixelsmith]

I have and their hallucinogenic effects are greatly exaggerated, as are LSD's. Mostly you just see the ground or the walls wavering or you see patterns in things, I never had full blown visual hallucinations like I've heard some people claim to have, and I was always an experimenter never someone who abused them so you would think that I'd be more likely than someone who does them all the time to hallucinate. I do have to state however that drugs are definitely known to effect different people in different ways so who knows maybe I just had a naturally high tolerance or something. Keep in mind this was also around 14 years ago so maybe the stuff is stronger these days, I have no intentions of finding out. I would like to try DMT once, but I honestly think I'd be too scared of having a bad experience to really enjoy it.

I guess you never did LSD in the 60's or early 70's. I can verify hallucinogenic visions and other altered senses are very real and you could not even imagine what it is like...not in your wildest dreams.

 

[Muadib]

I guess you never did LSD in the 60's or early 70's. I can verify hallucinogenic visions and other altered senses are very real and you could not even imagine what it is like...not in your wildest dreams.

No I wasn't even alive in the early 70's. I definitely had mild hallucinations but nothing like the full on visions I've heard people describe. Maybe it's a case of you see what you want to see, I've heard people say that your mindset definitely has an effect on your trip so perhaps I just wasn't into it enough or something. I guess that it's possible that LSD back in the 60's was higher quality stuff since it was made legally by drug companies instead of by someone in a basement with a chemistry set, but I think it's probably due to how drugs have different effects on different people.

 

[Muadib]

By the way, I've watched the documentary also on DMT, and while it is good, it tends to be a bit lightweight compared to the book. But the book is not tedious at all, it really holds you.

So, I don't know now if I would actually try it, even under controlled conditions with a doctor, and certainly not in any other way. But its effects on people were really stunning, during the period after Dr. Strassman's injection, and afterwards both short term and long term. Kim

Wow I'd never heard of someone injecting DMT, but I just looked it up and apparently it's possible, that would have to be insane. I watched the Spirit Molecule documentary and I don't remember them mentioning injections but it was awhile ago so perhaps I just forgot. It's actually the liquid form of DMT (ayahuasca) that fascinates me the most since it was brewed in ancient times by shamans who somehow knew that taking DMT orally by itself wouldn't work, you need to combine it with an MAOI to achieve the full effects. When the indigenous Amazonians were asked how they knew to combine these two plants they said that the spirits of the plants themselves told them how to make it.

 

[Kim323]

Yes, Dr. Strassman injected it, or more specifically it was given through an IV. Again, the protocol was fascinating. What he had to do to get government approval and to obtain DMT is fascinating.

Since the posts above talk about the effects, I'll just quote a bit from his book. This is in the chapter "Under the Influence."

"In our volunteers, a full dose of IV DMT almost instantly elicited intense psychedelic visions, a feeling that the mind had separated from the body, and overpowering emotions. These effects completely replaced whatever had occupied their minds just before drug administration. For most people, psychedelic doses of DMT were 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 mg/kg.

Effects began within seconds of finishing the 30-second DMT infusion, and people were fully involved in the psychedelic worlds by the time I finished clearing the intravenous line with sterile saline 15 seconds later."

The descriptions by the volunteers of their experiences involved seeing actual beings, and it's very, very fascinating. I really liked the clinical aspects of the studies, but that aspect does not overpower the book by any means, in fact makes the whole setting more real, more scientific. This wasn't just someone doing this by himself and saying, wow, man, that was cool. The studies spanned the years 1990-1995, so they were extensive.

The chapter on the chemistry of DMT is excellent, and Dr. Strassman explains and provides molecular diagrams for, of course, DMT, and also for phenethylamine, mescaline, MDMA (Ecstasy), tryptamine, serotonin, LSD, ibogaine, psilocybin, psilocin, and 5-methoxy-DMT. A real lesson in chemistry that is very, very riveting. Kim

 

[nameless]

kids. DONT DO DRUGS

 

[Stagger Lee]

I have and their hallucinogenic effects are greatly exaggerated, as are LSD's. Mostly you just see the ground or the walls wavering or you see patterns in things, I never had full blown visual hallucinations like I've heard some people claim to have, and I was always an experimenter never someone who abused them so you would think that I'd be more likely than someone who does them all the time to hallucinate. I do have to state however that drugs are definitely known to effect different people in different ways so who knows maybe I just had a naturally high tolerance or something. Keep in mind this was also around 14 years ago so maybe the stuff is stronger these days, I have no intentions of finding out. I would like to try DMT once, but I honestly think I'd be too scared of having a bad experience to really enjoy it.

Your experience is similiar to my own. Not so much a hallucination, but more of a feeling and sense of things. An example, looking at a bottle of whiskey. Images of the prohibition era may occupy your thoughts for hours, as you begin to realize the impact organized crime played in our nations history. A heightened sense of awarness- and you may write these things down for later reference- only to scratch your head the next day reading it, making little sense to a sober you.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

You cannot really have a bad trip on DMT as it is just way, way too powerful to consciously even think about being scared or not. It will run it's course, you will have your jaw round your ankles once you come out and you will be trying to process what you saw for the remainder of your life.
So that's DMT.

Ibogaine is like DMT for several days.....


And I also agree that LSD is very unlikely to cause anything like outright hallucinations, not the eyes open kind anyway. People so often wrongly liken a bad trip to some kind of horror-show of unpleasant visual hallucinations but it is far more insidious than that. Acid knows every single part of your brain and being and if it wants too it can hit you where it hurts - psychologically and the resulting negative thought patterns are way more disturbing than any visual monsters.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You cannot really have a bad trip on DMT as it is just way, way too powerful to consciously even think about being scared or not. It will run it's course, you will have your jaw round your ankles once you come out and you will be trying to process what you saw for the remainder of your life.
So that's DMT.

Ibogaine is like DMT for several days.....


And I also agree that LSD is very unlikely to cause anything like outright hallucinations, not the eyes open kind anyway. People so often wrongly liken a bad trip to some kind of horror-show of unpleasant visual hallucinations but it is far more insidious than that. Acid knows every single part of your brain and being and if it wants too it can hit you where it hurts - psychologically and the resulting negative thought patterns are way more disturbing than any visual monsters.

Agreed. I have seen a couple guys have a bad trip(too much too fast) and from my point of view, they were living out their worst nightmare. I think the trick is, to let go of your ego- see yourself for what you are and what you have done in your past. LSD ingested is pure truth, in the way that you will examine your past behaviour- the self is scrutinized.

 

[Muadib]

You cannot really have a bad trip on DMT as it is just way, way too powerful to consciously even think about being scared or not. It will run it's course, you will have your jaw round your ankles once you come out and you will be trying to process what you saw for the remainder of your life.
So that's DMT.

Ibogaine is like DMT for several days.....


And I also agree that LSD is very unlikely to cause anything like outright hallucinations, not the eyes open kind anyway. People so often wrongly liken a bad trip to some kind of horror-show of unpleasant visual hallucinations but it is far more insidious than that. Acid knows every single part of your brain and being and if it wants too it can hit you where it hurts - psychologically and the resulting negative thought patterns are way more disturbing than any visual monsters.

Yep. The last time I ever did LSD was my first bad trip. Matter of fact, that was the last time I took any type of hallucinogen period. I'll never forget how freaked out I was for no discernible reason. No visuals or anything like that involved, I just felt that I couldn't process what was going on around me and what was going on in my head, and for some reason it scared the living shit out of me. I'll never forget that experience.

 

[Muadib]

[quote="goggsmackay, post: 144302, member: 4654

Ibogaine is like DMT for several days.....
[/quote]


So have you ever tried it? I've heard of it, but only as a treatment for opiate addiction, never as something that's used casually, though I imagine some people out there have done so. The testimonials from people about Ibogaine changing their lives of addiction are pretty amazing.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Yes. Have one other friend who has too. Same type of person who would go to Brazil and try ayuhasca he is!

The way the people in Gabon use it is a mental rite of passage that can allow one to forgive oneself's misdeeds. Perhaps a girl who was abused might be treated like this to allow her not mentally blame herself etc - It's like there is a re-wiring aspect to ibogaine that is unlike anything else. Something that is re-routing a lifetimes' of thought patterns has to be taken seriously.

As amazing as it is there is no part of it at all that resembles 'getting high'. This is not something feels nice etc - it's pretty serious from the word go. If ibogaine does NOT actually transport you awake to other worlds then it is pretty darn good at making you think you did...

 

[boomerang]

Interesting comments here. I've experienced way too much self-contained hell in my head to contemplate hallucinogenic augmentation. But descriptions of the DMT experience are especially fascinating.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

@Muadib - yeah, there are a few things I would/did try and I would steer clear of synthetic stuff nobody has a clue about in terms of dangers etc but things like iboga and ayahuasca, are natural and have been used for millenia. As long as someone doesn't treat these things like a joint or a 6-pack then I think it can be an amazingly positive, eye-opening experience - totally unlike anything else you will ever do.

But it's worth saying for ever that those things are not for a stoner looking to get high as there is no upside in terms of feeling high etc. It buggers your muscle control (absolutely must be done with straight co-pilot) and makes you vomit quite a lot and pretty violently. Most good things come at a price and this is no difference.

Some have called it an ordeal but to me it's like opening myriad doors, each one with a totally different world to inhabit and learn (it's almost like DMT has a spirit/personality/character of it's own and it sentient - it feels like it chooses what to take from your life and use that as a canvas for the next few hours....)

In terms of unpleasant, if you have a bucket (pail) next to where you are lying down then that's the drama taken care of. The reward hugely outweighs the small negatives.

 

[boomerang]

Here's something I ran across on YouTube--love the Tedx lectures. Dr. Taylor's description of reality with the left brain apparently shut down bears a definite resemblance to samadhi as described by mystics in human history. I don't think we have the least idea what or who we really are.

 

[trainedobserver]

... I don't think we have the least idea what or who we really are.

I think a key realization is that the "observer" the bit of our minds that we identify with as our "true selves" is actually just a tiny bit of ourselves, an emergent quality (an event and not a thing) in fact, performing a necessary function in concert with other "bits" of us to make the greater whole. I think the confusion of "who we really are" stems from an incorrect identification with an ongoing event (the observer) as both a "thing" and as "ourselves."

 

[SRL+]

Yep. The last time I ever did LSD was my first bad trip. Matter of fact, that was the last time I took any type of hallucinogen period. I'll never forget how freaked out I was for no discernible reason. No visuals or anything like that involved, I just felt that I couldn't process what was going on around me and what was going on in my head, and for some reason it scared the living shit out of me. I'll never forget that experience.

Long ago in a land far..., far away , there was a laboratory on a well known college campus, (well known because of instances of substance abuse),which was conducting research for the military. Within this lab LSD was being produced by none other than someone who was exceptionally bright, and apparently favored LSD. This someone pilfered, and then absconded with a vial of the mind bending powder, concealing it in his freezer compartment, in his refrigerator at home. Going back east to visit his parents over the holiday season, he decided to let his friend house sit. Well, his friend being a neat freak, and an exceptionally good cook decided to clean out the physic major’s fridge, defrosting the freezer compartment. As he was chipping away at the ice build up..., guess what?, he discovered what he thought was a vial of Peruvian marching powder. However, he was sadly mistaken, as I will now share with you his experience. What he basically told me was that he thought the vial contained cocaine, and drew out a couple of healthy lines, treating the potent product like a Saturday night party favor. He told me that upon snorting the stuff that he immediately knew that he had miscalculated, as he was under the impression that a corkscrew had been inserted into his nostrils, and was slowly turning its way toward the center of his brain. He went on to describe the ungodly pain associated with the experience. Within minutes he was higher than the balls on a giraffe, as he found himself shattering light bulbs on the floor, then vacuuming up the shards of glass. Realizing that his actions were extraordinary, he then decided to go for a run in order to work off the effects of the potent product. Lacing his running shoes then leaving the house, he noticed the neighbor next door, who was pruning the roses in her front yard. He asked her.., excuse me Ma'am.., do I look high? She responded..., no..., not really, then off he ran. As he was running past the trees along the boulevard, he said that they were blasting up out of the ground, roots and all, disappearing into the early evening sky. Apparently he had run for miles, finding himself in the parking lot of a major shopping mall, which had closed for the evening. He called for a taxicab to deliver him the eight miles back to the scene of his mental break. Whilst’ en route he shared his experience with the cabbie who inquired how he too could get a hold of some of that stuff, as crazy knows no limit.

 

[trainedobserver]

Filmed chemical excursions, described by the voyagers themselves.

 

[mike]

I think a key realization is that the "observer" the bit of our minds that we identify with as our "true selves" is actually just a tiny bit of ourselves, an emergent quality (an event and not a thing) in fact, performing a necessary function in concert with other "bits" of us to make the greater whole. I think the confusion of "who we really are" stems from an incorrect identification with an ongoing event (the observer) as both a "thing" and as "ourselves."

More good stuff here