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One of my experiences

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just think that the source is our brain, not something external.

I chalk all this up as unknown. In examining anomalous events and experiences there is the internal logic of the event that can be considered and discussed that in no way necessarily reflect the actual sources of the experiences whatever that may be. A skeptic or no can discuss these experiences in that light without committing to some belief about them. There is no doubt in my mind that people have these very strange experiences and I find no single reasonable explanation for them. I find them incredibly interesting nonetheless and am interested in not only what was experienced but what the person having the experience thinks and feels about it regardless of any prosaic explanation that might be able to be applied later.
 
I chalk all this up as unknown. In examining anomalous events and experiences there is the internal logic of the event that can be considered and discussed that in no way reflect the actual sources of the experiences whatever that may be. A skeptic or no can discuss these experiences in that light without committing to some belief about them. There is no doubt in my mind that people have these very strange experiences and I find no single reasonable explanation for them.

I totally agree with you. I think that's what it is, but I don't know for sure.
 
Fatima was a UFO related event? I've actually never heard that take on that event before. I've always thought of the Fatima and the later Garabandal stories to be the work of the overly active imagination of children. Ultimately, the predictions did not come true.

You need to read up on it. Jacques Vallee has covered it in several books. While it was only the children, and more specifically ten year old Lúcia Santos who saw the "little lady", it is estimated that at one point 70,000 people witnessed the "dance of the sun" event.

From Wikipedia:

As early as July 1917 it was claimed that the Virgin Mary had promised a miracle for the last of her apparitions on 13 October, so that all would believe. What transpired became known as "Miracle of the Sun". A crowd believed to be approximately 70,000 in number, including newspaper reporters and photographers, gathered at the Cova da Iria. The incessant rain had finally ceased and a thin layer of clouds cloaked the silver discof the sun such that witnesses later said it could be looked upon without hurting the eyes. Lúcia, moved by what she said was an interior impulse, called out to the crowd to look at the sun. Witnesses later spoke of the sun appearing to change colors and rotate like a wheel. Not everyone saw the same things, and witnesses gave widely varying descriptions of the "sun's dance". The phenomenon is claimed to have been witnessed by most people in the crowd as well as people many miles away. While the crowd was staring at the sun, Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta said later they were seeing lovely images of the Holy Family, Our Lady of Sorrows with Jesus Christ, and then Our Lady of Mount Carmel. They said they saw Saint Joseph and Jesus bless the people. The children were aged 10, 9, and 7 at the time.

Danse_du_Soleil_Fatima_13_oct_1917.jpg

It's a blurry image, but that's more people in the background.

Columnist Avelino de Almeida of O Século (Portugal's most influential newspaper, which was pro-government in policy and avowedly anti-clerical), reported the following: "Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws - the sun 'danced' according to the typical expression of the people." Eye specialist Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, writing for the newspaper Ordem reported "The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceeding fast and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat". The special reporter for the 17 October 1917 edition of the Lisbon daily, O Dia, reported the following, "...the silver sun, enveloped in the same gauzy purple light was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds...The light turned a beautiful blue, as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral, and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands...people wept and prayed with uncovered heads, in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they."

Now the thing to remember here is that is a large crowd of people, and some where many miles from where the children where. So it wasn't a case of mass hysteria, since the people at the outer fringe would have no idea what the other people were seeing.

Also, it had been raining on the people, but they were all dry after this light darted around. In Vallee's book he talks that the real sun had grown dim when the silver spinning disk showed up, and that so-called angle hair had started falling from the sky on the people.

Now lets look at other religions events. How about the Lady of Lourdes?

On 11 February 1858, Bernadette Soubirous went with her sisters Toinette and Jeanne Abadie to collect some firewood and bones in order to be able to buy some bread. When she took off her shoes and stockings to wade through the water near the Grotto of Massabielle, she said she heard the sound of two gusts of wind (coups de vent) but the trees and bushes nearby did not move. She said she saw a light in the grotto and a girl, as small as she was, dressed all in white, apart from the blue belt fastened around her waist and the golden yellow roses, one on each foot, the colour of her rosary. Bernadette tried to keep this a secret, but Toinette told her mother. After parental cross-examination, she and her sister received corporal punishment for their story.

The Lady of Guadalupe is another very interesting case.

By all means check out Vallee's book Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact, which details many of these interesting cases. A case can also be made that the "little people" or fae, are part of this phenomenon.

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

I don't disagree with him. I just think that the source is our brain, not something external. Religion stems from it, and it why I think man created gods, and not the other way around.

Why discount peoples experiences over the years of being contacted by beings not from here. What our brain has done is to try and make sense of it, and in that context it becomes religious to some, and technical to others. For millennia people have reported seeing angles, demons, fairies, gods and finally men in airships and then UFOs and grays. Why the change? Because we changed. So it has to modify itself so we accept it.

Also our brains don't make physical traces appear on the ground, or involve multiple witnesses who see the same thing. Then there is the fact that you can't see something that you can't imagine, and people, including myself, have seen some things that we can't understand. Or have been given information that we didn't posses before hand.

Saying its all your brain is the easy way out. It also can't be proven any more than UFOs. Maybe less. (your brain doesn't make things appear on RADAR)

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

I chalk all this up as unknown. In examining anomalous events and experiences there is the internal logic of the event that can be considered and discussed that in no way necessarily reflect the actual sources of the experiences whatever that may be. A skeptic or no can discuss these experiences in that light without committing to some belief about them. There is no doubt in my mind that people have these very strange experiences and I find no single reasonable explanation for them. I find them incredibly interesting nonetheless and am interested in not only what was experienced but what the person having the experience thinks and feels about it regardless of any prosaic explanation that might be able to be applied later.

I agree. It's easy to say it's in your head, until it happens to you. Then if it were in your head, it would happen all the time. And you can tell the difference. And I think it's important to note that the experience is not as important as how you feel about the experience.
 
I'm not discounting them. I think most people that have these experiences are sincere.

But you think they aren't actually having the experience? Or that the experience is in their heads. That's what I meant.

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't had something like this happen, but the first thing that runs through your head is that it's not coming from you. it's beyond what you have experienced, and becomes very confusing. On the other hand, when I had a migraine related scintillating scotoma, I knew I wasn't seeing something from the outside, as weird as it was. It's totally different from other things I have seen that are clearly not something I'm imagining (because I couldn't). Just as I know this computer I'm looking at isn't in my imagination. We all talk to our selves, but we don't hear voices. It's quite different. Then you have people I know who saw the small furry things on their own, and had never heard the story, and the descriptions exactly match. That's an external source doing it, and it seemed to be associated to the location.

But wait, there's more! lol I had an experience with a group of friends where we witnessed poltergeist activity. A woman had passed away in one of the upstairs apartments in the multi family dwelling I grew up in. In the basement was a storage area where we let the tenants keep some stuff. She had a steamer truck there. On top of the trunk was some stuff which didn't belong to her, like X-mas ornaments and stuff. At the opposite end of the basement I had a small area where my friends and I hung out. We did not have direct line of sight to the storage area because of a work room my father had constructed. But we could see the light from the storage area shining on a wall.

For the few days after Lena died, we kept seeing a human shape go past us, like a shadow. Then one day we start hearing a ruckus from the back of the basement, and we can clearly see the shadow of a person on the wall from that light, and we saw all the stuff on top of the trunk being flung across the basement to the other wall. Now the entrance to the basement was by us, so for someone to come in, they would have to walk down the stairs, right next to us, and walk past us to the back. No one did that. And then the back door to the basement was locked from the inside with a large dead bolt and a 2x4 going across the door. That was intact and the door was locked.

We freaked out and ran up the stairs and locked the door, which had a pad lock. After a while the noise subsided and we got up some courage, and went down to check. All the stuff on top of her truck had been thrown to the floor! This stuff continued for a few days until her ex husband came and took the trunk.

So here's a paranormal experience witnessed by four people. Evidence does show that a lot of poltergeist activity seems to come from pubescent kids, girls in particular. But this seemed to be focused on the dead woman's belongings.

So, once again, not in out heads.
 
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