October 20, 2013 Jerome Clark

[smcder]

To be fair, I would add that RMSTF can be tricky to diagnose b/c of variable patterns of symptoms - but it is common in the summers where I live and my GP had already treated an unusually large number of cases and hospitalized two with complications.

 

[Jeff Davis]

To be fair, I would add that RMSTF can be tricky to diagnose b/c of variable patterns of symptoms - but it is common in the summers where I live and my GP had already treated an unusually large number of cases and hospitalized two with complications.

smcder,
Thanks for the expanded view on why western empirical science just does not work. One of the best scientific community models (read: non-enterprise driven, over compartmentalized by competitive design, scientific research communities) that I can personally refer to, is Russia's. That's because science and private enterprise are not, or at least have not been within the social construct there, for a far longer time than their present evolutionary status would seem to indicate, allowed to mix by design. To me this is a far more logical demonstration of the scientific process because it utilizes a control mechanism to preserve the scientific process's ultimate integrity. Which is to state that it insures that the scientific process, and more importantly, it's progressive development, reflects an open throttle policy that erases the staggeringly real possibility of monetary corruption that would contaminate such a natural process to it's absolute and ultimate...unnatural compartmentalization.

When we glimpse nature in an untainted sense, do we look out and see all the birds singing from cages, and all the little fauna caught in traps? Yet, that's just how it's being done in the west with respect to the scientific process. The socially driven scientific developmental process must reflect nature itself apart from unnatural corruption/poison.

When you mix science and unregulated (read: intelligent government, now there's a concept!) capitalism, you get entropy. The scientific community has to exist in developmental process apart from the restrictive unnatural fences that are a provisional blueprint being offered by an enterprise driven, and thereby, scientifically corrupt process. One that insures a sense of strangled scientific development in these little tiny, vacuously secret spaces, that such a fear of spying competitors inspires.

I am stating all this in utter agreement with Chris. He nailed it in the show. Naturally all this reflects the scientific cross discipline breakdown that you alluded to earlier. It's just more from a socially motivated (read: greed drenched enterprise. read: corporate) origin's perspective.

The following article, which IMO is one of the most fundamentally important articles that I have personally read over the last 25 years, illustrates what I am referring to here quite lucidly. If you want to just skip over the article subject matter in an effort to directly cite the evidence for this type of cross discipline scientific success, go directly to the sources listed at the bottom of the article where you can quickly google the rest. Brendan D. Murphy - 'Junk' DNA: An interdimensional doorway to transformation? - Unexplained Mysteries

I personally think Brendan Murphy would be a great Paracast guest. I should have recommended him a long time ago. Brilliant man.

It is REALLY amazing what can happen when humanity's scientific unbiased interests, reflects a truly natural, and therefore logical, scientific process. This speaks of a scientific collective, which like mankind is by it's natural pack design, rather than an analogous threatened scientific individual at the watering hole of scientific development. Those waters are poisoned before the show even gets on the road.

 

[Jeff Davis]

To be fair, I would add that RMSTF can be tricky to diagnose b/c of variable patterns of symptoms - but it is common in the summers where I live and my GP had already treated an unusually large number of cases and hospitalized two with complications.

I also wanted to express full and complete agreement with your alternate treatments perspective. Man, am I ever honestly glad they properly found out what you specifically had. RMSTF. That type of victory is beyond words priceless and shows just what an alternate perspective can mean with respect to REAL treatment success. I wanted to more or less specifically thank you for sharing that. We need an epidemic victorious contagion in these here parts (USA). That would do the trick.

 

[smcder]

I also wanted to express full and complete agreement with your alternate treatments perspective. Man, am I ever honestly glad they properly found out what you specifically had. RMSTF. That type of victory is beyond words priceless and shows just what an alternate perspective can mean with respect to REAL treatment success. I wanted to more or less specifically thank you for sharing that. We need an epidemic victorious contagion in these here parts (USA). That would do the trick.

You're welcome - to be clear it's a nuanced view - in my case above it was handled by mainstream practitioners and the diagnosis was delayed, in my opinion, not by any deficiency in medical science but by experts looking for zebras instead of horses (I can give more details to support that if needed) so in the example I'm really focusing on taking a good history, good diagnostic skills and wisdom on the part of the GP - which did eventually prevail but took time. I also think the psychiatrist (who also has a medical degree) should have looked at some other possibilities - but he did not take a history himself - referral was simply accepted and the ECT process put in motion, I was sent to get an EKG before I even saw the psychiatrist . . .

Now, I trained as an EMT and I know you can do a lot with just your five senses in terms of making immediate life-saving decisions, if I chop my toe off cutting wood, I'm going to call 911. I am also saying that if you put a brain surgeon in the back of an ambulance - you'd have a lot of dead people - I'd say you'd do better to make him/her drive! . . . maybe

As for actual "alternative" treatments (non mainstream medical practices) I've used and continue to plan to use a wide variety of them - healing to me extends well beyond what my doctors can offer.

 

[smcder]

My favorite alternative remedy is "gin-soaked raisins" for arthritis - take golden raisins and cover in gin, let it sit until the liquid is absorbed/evaporated and then eat seven a day . . . I am almost entirely positive there is not a scrap of evidence to support the practice but I swear by this one! But if you think about it - if nothing else - it is a cheap and delicious way to enjoy the placebo effect.

 

[flipper]

Our threshold for belief in what really happened to people remains culturally frontloaded. I blame patriarchy for dismissing more imaginative and generative ways of knowing,[/quote]

I thought, Burnt State that this is a speech that you might enjoy, I certainly did.
Angela Davis on Feminism and Prison Abolition
Angela Davis, a radical feminist and a leading advocate for prison abolition, works at the intersection of many issues. In a talk she gave at the University of Chicago, Davis brought up race, institutional violence, gender nonconformity, Palestine, trans politics, and the importance of subverting ideological norms.
Wed 10.23.13 | Angela Davis on Feminism and Prison Abolition | Against the Grain: A Program about Politics, Society and Ideas

 

[Lou_Sheehan]

The J. Clark interview on October 9, 2011 is also informative and interesting.

 

[Burnt State]

[quote="flipper, post: 173858, member:
Angela Davis on Feminism and Prison Abolition
Angela Davis, a radical feminist and a leading advocate for prison abolition, works at the intersection of many issues. In a talk she gave at the University of Chicago, Davis brought up race, institutional violence, gender nonconformity, Palestine, trans politics, and the importance of subverting ideological norms.
Wed 10.23.13 | Angela Davis on Feminism and Prison Abolition | Against the Grain: A Program about Politics, Society and Ideas[/quote]

You just increased the value of The Paracast Forum for me tenfold. Who would think that in a Jerome Clark discussion on categorizing the UFO phenomenon that i'd have Angela Davis quoted to me? Thanks for the prison abolition material. I once did a course in university that covered the history of crime and punishment - it remains one of humanity's darker moments. Our approaches to incarceration, assumed public safety and the reality of recidivism rates are, and have always been, brutal, the asylum being the worst. I liked how Davis wove these elements together, especially her second talk and our lack of awareness, in a global age, of how we incarcerate others, tacitly approve the violation of others, and wear the sweat of their garment factory slave operations on our bodies here in the west. Not an anomalous event at all, just a hardcore fact of the phenomenon of humanity at work oppressing each other.

 

[Lou_Sheehan]

Apparently we buy scads of stuff (in addition to organs) made by Chinese prisoners.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I don't think you can go through an entire episode of the Paracast without 2 things happening. 1. Gene professing they don't talk about politics, right before he talks about politics and spews his liberal leanings. 2. Chris saying "It's called cultural front loading" and then complains about the state of ufology while questioning the ETH. It really isn't worth "falling out of your seat" he pretty much makes this point every week.

Maybe if I mention this enough it will sink in... then again, (as in your case?) maybe not...

 

[Lou_Sheehan]

Gene and Chris,

In an earlier interview of Mr. Clark you mentioned the possibility of having a guest from CUFOS. Unless CUFOS is more than moribund, what's up? -- Lou

 

[Burnt State]

On cultural frontloading: I just relistened to a Radio Misterioso episode on contactees. I really appreciated how Greg Bishop described described the UFO experience as the product of our interactions with some other, unknown source. In this way, the things we call experience anomalies are only visible through the culturally programmed assumptions and expectations that shape the lens. These grey aliens taking us for random joy rides, stealing our sperm and hanging out in our bedrooms perhaps speak to deeper social fears in the cultural psyche of the home invader and sexual violator. This product of our expectations cloaks then the original agent who remains unknown, unlocated but professes to come from many light years away. Why distract and deflect us? What is there to hide?

 

[smcder]

Which RM episode was this? I would like to listen or re-listen. The thing that always gets brought up is the way the native Americans couldn't "see" Columbus' ship parked right off their coast- only the medicine man finally could. This has been contested (of course) but it helps me think about this . . . Terrance McKenna also talked about a saucer being so vast and/or strange as to be invisible b/c it simply didn't "compute" (sorry, it's lost in all the McKenna stuff filed loosely away in my memory) but I did have a dream where I was on top of some type of military building standing guard and very gradually came to perceive an enormous (all-encompassing) saucer overhead . . . it was awe-full and inside the dream I thought "Oh, that's what Terrance meant!"

 

[Randall]

smcder,
Thanks for the expanded view on why western empirical science just does not work ...

It's not the science that doesn't work. It's bad politics and bad practice that doesn't work. Without those problems "western empirical science" works really well.

 

[smcder]

It's not the science that doesn't work. It's bad politics and bad practice that doesn't work. Without those problems "western empirical science" works really well.

I took Jeff to mean that as well - the critique of science as an enterprise here in the west, is that right Jeff?

My comments weren't meant as a critique of scientific methods per se - as a means of gaining empirical knowledge.

smcder,
Thanks for the expanded view on why western empirical science just does not work. One of the best scientific community models (read: non-enterprise driven, over compartmentalized by competitive design, scientific research communities) that I can personally refer to, is Russia's. That's because science and private enterprise are not, or at least have not been within the social construct there, for a far longer time than their present evolutionary status would seem to indicate, allowed to mix by design. To me this is a far more logical demonstration of the scientific process because it utilizes a control mechanism to preserve the scientific process's ultimate integrity. Which is to state that it insures that the scientific process, and more importantly, it's progressive development, reflects an open throttle policy that erases the staggeringly real possibility of monetary corruption that would contaminate such a natural process to it's absolute and ultimate...unnatural compartmentalization.

 

[Jeff Davis]

It's not the science that doesn't work. It's bad politics and bad practice that doesn't work. Without those problems "western empirical science" works really well.

Empirical Science works precisely as it should ANYWHERE when it takes a natural course rather than one interrupted by influence or outright corruption. Ultimately, apart from the sinking effect created by the commercialized science muck and mire we are all neck deep in within the USA, you are correct here, but I know you get the point.

 

[flipper]

Apparently we buy scads of stuff (in addition to organs) made by Chinese prisoners.

Why are so many people in prison in this country, and why are those behind bars treated so badly? Structural factors -- historical, social, political, even psychological -- were explored in a conversation Richard Lichtman had with Terry Kupers. Kupers emphasized both our habit of categorizing people and what he calls the criminalization of dissent.
Wed 6.26.13 | What Prisons Say About Us | Against the Grain: A Program about Politics, Society and Ideas
If the problem is violence against women, is the solution the criminal justice system? Many anti-violence activists look to the police, prisons, and stepped-up criminalization for help and protection, but Beth Richie says that's a misguided approach, one that feeds the buildup of what she calls a prison nation. Richie describes the contours of the prison nation and the threats it poses to women on the margins.
Mon 4.01.13 | Violence and the Prison Nation | Against the Grain: A Program about Politics, Society and Ideas

 

[Burnt State]

Which RM episode was this? I would like to listen or re-listen. The thing that always gets brought up is the way the native Americans couldn't "see" Columbus' ship parked right off their coast- only the medicine man finally could. This has been contested (of course) but it helps me think about this . . . Terrance McKenna also talked about a saucer being so vast and/or strange as to be invisible b/c it simply didn't "compute" (sorry, it's lost in all the McKenna stuff filed loosely away in my memory) but I did have a dream where I was on top of some type of military building standing guard and very gradually came to perceive an enormous (all-encompassing) saucer overhead . . . it was awe-full and inside the dream I thought "Oh, that's what Terrance meant!"

This was A.J. Gulyas on June 16, 2013. It's definitely a classic RM show where the dynamic between host and guest unfolds in a really interesting way and the discussion points are quite exceptional, sociological and intriguing. It deals with the entire history of the significant figures and well worth a repeat listen. The Columbus ship is discussed and it does echo some witness reports where people standing beside each other have these vast
discrepancies in what was/wasn't seen.

Love your dream, a hilarious visual experience. Have you been a guard before or was that just your dream psyche scripting you into the role for your benefit?

 

[flipper]

On cultural frontloading: I just relistened to a Radio Misterioso episode on contactees. I really appreciated how Greg Bishop described described the UFO experience as the product of our interactions with some other, unknown source. In this way, the things we call experience anomalies are only visible through the culturally programmed assumptions and expectations that shape the lens. These grey aliens taking us for random joy rides, stealing our sperm and hanging out in our bedrooms perhaps speak to deeper social fears in the cultural psyche of the home invader and sexual violator. This product of our expectations cloaks then the original agent who remains unknown, unlocated but professes to come from many light years away. Why distract and deflect us? What is there to hide?

It does not make a lot of sense to fly across the universe to do a rectal examination.

 

[Stagger Lee]

assuming that is the case. We've no idea of the source or origins- we're still debating if there is a physical aspect to the phenom.
I think the above statement is a common one, but simplifies a complex issue alot of people are obviously having.