New Utah footage

[Sean Elifritz]

Chinese lanterns don't usually drop other flares. Also, too bright and the color was red unlike most lanterns, though it washes out in the video. On top of that, there are witnesses that say they definitely did not look or act like flares.

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------



I never said that. I have no idea what it is. You are jumping to conclusions, as a lot of people seem to be.

Gotta' say you sure are carrying on in a pretty spirited way over this. You're taking a few turtle-speed-moving red dots and a white descending dot and somehow trying to turn it into this:



But if you're not saying that then what are you saying?

 

[softbeard]

Oh geez, you won't quit will you. If you want to know what I'm saying, then read what I've said. But then, you don't like reading much, I gather, so I'll recap:
I don't think the Utah video is a 'hoax' too, if that's what you're implying.
I think it's connected with the Jerusalem videos; ie the same 'phenomena'.
What it is I don't know, and don't pretend to know.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Oh geez, you won't quit will you. If you want to know what I'm saying, then read what I've said. But then, you don't like reading much, I gather, so I'll recap:
I don't think the Utah video is a 'hoax' too, if that's what you're implying.
I think it's connected with the Jerusalem videos; ie the same 'phenomena'.
What it is I don't know, and don't pretend to know.

I never said it was a hoax. Just that it's probably something simple like military flares, Chinese lanterns, or God knows what other ordinary thing. It's just little dots on the screen that are barely moving. Nothing to get excited about.

 

[softbeard]

I never said it was a hoax. Just that it's probably something simple like military flares, Chinese lanterns, or God knows what other ordinary thing. It's just little dots on the screen that are barely moving. Nothing to get excited about.

It's not a matter of getting excited, but apparently, according to the news article the display was enough to excite the witnesses on the ground.
By itself, it's not much, but again, taken together with the Jerusalem videos, I think it becomes more.

 

[Terjarv]

Yes...and your point is? Flares that first keep formation, then move, breaking formation, while dropping other flares? Hmmm. I don't think it's 'flares', Wickerman1972.
And you mean you sense excitement in my posts? Well, hey, if you say so.

Those don't look like flares people...they maintain formation, then break formation, then maintain formation, then appear to drop or release other "flares". I don't know if this video is real or fake but it doesn't look like flares

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

Could be Chinese lanterns I suppose but the lights look remarkably similar to a flare test I saw done on UFO Hunters.

UFO hunters? BLAH

 

[Sean Elifritz]

But hey, so I don't come off as some close-minded scoffer I'll go ahead and provide two images that do impress me as something interesting:

September 4, 1971 - Lago de Cote, Costa Rica



and...

The Belgium wave, late 80s, early 90s

 

[Sean Elifritz]

UFO hunters? BLAH

The show 90% sucked but it had its moments.

 

[softbeard]

Yeah, well, 10 minutes in Photoshop for both.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Yeah, well, 10 minutes in Photoshop for both.

Lol, those don't impress you but the red dots do? The thing about those 2 pictures is that they have other things going for them that support the pictures, especially the Belgium one. I'm going to assume you know about them but if not I suggest you look them up.

 

[Terjarv]

Ok so Bill Byrnes just called me and said that the lights were from a secret Moon Base and they were flown by Alien/human hybrids. He advised all of us to put on our aluminum radiation helmets and of course...sunglasses

 

[softbeard]

Lol, those don't impress you but the red dots do? The thing about those 2 pictures is that they have other things going for them that support the pictures, especially the Belgium one. I'm going to assume you know about them but if not I suggest you look them up.

Nah, looking at supporting material means I gotta read. I don't like reading.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Ok so Bill Byrnes just called me and said that the lights were from a secret Moon Base and they were flown by Alien/human hybrids. He advised all of us to put on our aluminum radiation helmets and of course...sunglasses

Look, I completely agree with you that UFO Hunters mostly sucked. I complained about it all the time while it was running on this very forum. But there were a few moments when it contributed to the greater good of "Ufology." The primary good thing it did was completely, effectively, and utterly debunk 90% of the NASA footage out there that quite a few people think might be of something extraordinary. They ran an experiment where they showed that all of those images with what appear to be saucers with a wedge cut out of the side and a hole in the middle was a glitch in the cameras that NASA uses and definitely was not ET spacecraft. The other good thing they did was show that it was impossible that a red beam was shining through the woods in the Rendlesham case from the lighthouse because a steel plate covers that side of the lighthouse. It's always been there and the light only shines out to sea. The only thing the witnesses could have saw was a flash as the beam bounced off of the plate. Debunkers like Magaha were arguing for years about a beam of light shining through the trees but that simply could not have been the case.

But yes, most of the time it was a dreadful show.

---------- Post added at 10:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

Nah, looking at supporting material means I gotta read. I don't like reading.

Lol, you're funny. You act like because I don't see any rational reason to read up about a few dots that I haven't read anything. I've been carrying on like a complete nerd with this stuff for nearly 20 years, have read a few hundred UFO books cover to cover (Quite a few of them more than once) and more articles than I can count (And if I throw in forum posts as well...oh my lord). It's because I have looked at this stuff so much and for so long that I know to not get carried away by a few red dots. Those days are long behind me. I suppose the tinfoil hat is still there but it's not as big or as shiny as it once was.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Who knows what they might be. More research on it seems necessary in my book. Having said that, I find that the flare theory is being trotted out at great regularity as though it's the 21st century equivalent of the "swamp gas" explanation.

 

[softbeard]

Lol, you're funny. You act like because I don't see any rational reason to read up about a few dots that I haven't read anything. I've been carrying on like a complete nerd with this stuff for nearly 20 years, have read a few hundred UFO books cover to cover (Quite a few of them more than once) and more articles than I can count (And if I throw in forum posts as well...oh my lord). It's because I have looked at this stuff so much and for so long that I know to not get carried away by a few red dots. Those days are long behind me. I suppose the tinfoil hat is still there but it's not as big or as shiny as it once was.

Chill... It was supposed to be funny.

 

[trainedobserver]

It's too bad there's not point of reference. Without that, one can't say much.

Nonsense. I could say, "These are obviously alien time machines from another dimension piloted by the ghosts of romantically wronged Sasquatches.", but I won't. The world isn't ready for such disclosure

 

[Angel of Ioren]

This thread is degenerating into petty arguments. Wickerman's opinion is just as valid as anyone else's in this case - they are just lights in the sky with very little point of reference. Also, Softbeard, Wickerman has probably read more about UFOs than anyone else on this site, so his opinion carries a lot of weight for me. Unless it comes to politics, in that case he has no idea what he's talking about

PS. In case the smiley doesn't cover it, I was just being a ball buster with the politics thing, Wickerman.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

This thread is degenerating into petty arguments. Wickerman's opinion is just as valid as anyone else's in this case - they are just lights in the sky with very little point of reference. Also, Softbeard, Wickerman has probably read more about UFOs than anyone else on this site, so his opinion carries a lot of weight for me. Unless it comes to politics, in that case he has no idea what he's talking about

PS. In case the smiley doesn't cover it, I was just being a ball buster with the politics thing, Wickerman.

Shucks, dude. Thanks (blushes). But my opinion carrying weight might be a bit of a stretch (But again, thanks for saying it). I'm just a guy with a point of view like everyone else. I've read a lot but my deficiency when it comes to this subject is that all of my knowledge about it comes from reading. Outside of about a 10 second exchange with Robert Hastings after a lecture close to 20 years ago I've met absolutely nobody in the UFO field, no researchers, no witnesses, no abductees, nothing (I appear to be the exact opposite of Archie who judging by his posts has met just about everybody). Hell, I haven't even met face to face a person yet who is interested in the subject. Absolutely nobody in my personal life, present or past, cares an iota about UFOs or the paranormal. My neck of the woods appears to be a paranormal dead zone. Nobody around here sees anything (Or if they do they don't bother telling me), nobody reads about it, nobody talks about it, nobody cares. So my only connection to the subject is books and the internet. And it sucks because sometimes I'd like to have a back and forth verbal discussion about it with someone who knows at least about as much of the lore as I do. But alas, the only conversations like those I've ever been able to engage in are written ones with people I've never met.

 

[ChrisInSyd]

Isn't the fact that there are multiple lights moving at differing speeds and in different vectors important? They do not all move in straight lines as if being dropped (true wind sheer could give this effect). To me its the way the shape evolves from being relatively static to having some form of independant tracking that makes it interesting. I can see some argument for flares with at one point potential detritus dropping from the expiring flare. I would love to see someone with a good grasp of aeronautical dynamics review it to see if there is signs of directional control, or acceleration/deceleration that are not consistent with natural effects.

cheers, Chris.

 

[softbeard]

Isn't the fact that there are multiple lights moving at differing speeds and in different vectors important? They do not all move in straight lines as if being dropped (true wind sheer could give this effect). To me its the way the shape evolves from being relatively static to having some form of independant tracking that makes it interesting. I can see some argument for flares with at one point potential detritus dropping from the expiring flare. I would love to see someone with a good grasp of aeronautical dynamics review it to see if there is signs of directional control, or acceleration/deceleration that are not consistent with natural effects.

Its not just their velocity vectors that distinguishes these objects from flares. Flares, generally, do not have constant light ouput. They tend to 'flicker' over time. What's most relevant to me is reports witnesses on the ground, one at least who actually was involved in manufacturing military flares, saying these were not flares.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

This thread is degenerating into petty arguments. Wickerman's opinion is just as valid as anyone else's in this case - they are just lights in the sky with very little point of reference. Also, Softbeard, Wickerman has probably read more about UFOs than anyone else on this site, so his opinion carries a lot of weight for me. Unless it comes to politics, in that case he has no idea what he's talking about

Nah, Angelo, you're reading too much into it. Arguments is what the forum is all about. The arguments aren't petty, just funny.

 

[icculus]

wait ... there are people who still think the Jerusalem footage is real? WTF...