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MUFON's Hanger 1: Two Critical Reviews



Constance

Paranormal Adept
I'll have more to say later, but the first half of the article is rather less than I hoped for. It's about an obscure World War II confrontation that went terribly wrong, resulting in over 700 deaths. They didn't exactly keep it secret, but basically drew attention away from it in a way that it would be overlooked in the fog of war. If you look it up, you can find a short paragraph about it here and there, but it's the sort of battle where commanders heads could roll because of the screw-up. At the end of the day, if accused of keeping secrets, they could point to the fact that there are reports about it — thus plausible deniability. Politics you see.

Sure. But the issue isn't why it was kept secret but that it was kept secret -- that in fact it could be kept secret. We all know that the Manhatten Project was kept secret and how difficult that secrecy would be to maintain given the numbers of people involved in it at several locations over several years.

It doesn't demonstrate how we'd keep the Roswell secret — which may have involved the crash of an alien spaceship and the recovery of the craft and the occupants — which would be a development with worldwide impact. I hope you see the distinction.

I do see the distinction, and indeed the event at Roswell would have worldwide impact. But the news of it was squelched immediately and we're well aware from the witness reports and witness families' reports how those possessing information, even at second-hand, were threatened and even terrorized into silence, a silence only gradually being broken. When the subject of Roswell was reopened, the immediate response was disinformation generated by the alphabet agencies. In the meantime, decades had passed during which the physical debris at Roswell had disappeared into Wright Patterson and the Battelle Institute [and perhaps other locations] where it was analyzed and likely back-engineered for what could be learned and duplicated from the superior technology it represented. That too was kept secret until Bragalia pursued his research into the secrets and the secret-keepers. We've already recognized the motivations of government and the military for maintaining secrecy about what they learned, and indeed the motivations of what became the military-industrial complex involved in taking what has been learned about recovered 'alien' technology into deep black projects funded by US taxpayers but reporting to no one in the elected government, and also enriching the corporations involved. Politics has been involved in that too, but private economic profit and control have continued to motivate the secrecy. Read Bragalia, all five reports, and Stalton to see how, by what means, all this evolved.

With Roswell, the government could easily justify keeping a secret because of the implications to national and planetary security.

Keeping the reality behind many ufos a secret to avoid public panic and massive societal disorder is, or was, reasonable for many years. By now we effectively have a secret government controlling information that everyone on the planet has a right to know. To whom do the people involved in that secret government report? We don't know that they report to anyone in the elected representative government responsible for our welfare and, given this country's power in the world, responsible for the welfare of all human and other life on this planet. Since these people don't report, we have no idea what they are doing, what their motives are, what the future might bring from them. Demonstrating the fact of the secret-keeping is the first step in enabling the public to understand the actual conditions of our current existence and perhaps to act against this massive, decades-long manipulation.

I hope the second part is more relevant to the discussion at hand.

You will find that it takes you directly into what has been uncovered by Bragalia. Stalton's paper, approaching the secret development of shape memory metals from the perspective of the lack of public records, confirms the extent of the secrecy involved in extrapolating from what was left on the ground at Roswell.
 

Frank Stalter

Paranormal Maven
Keeping the reality behind many ufos a secret to avoid public panic and massive societal disorder is, or was, reasonable for many years. By now we effectively have a secret government controlling information that everyone on the planet has a right to know. To whom do the people involved in that secret government report? We don't know that they report to anyone in the elected representative government responsible for our welfare and, given this country's power in the world, responsible for the welfare of all human and other life on this planet. Since these people don't report, we have no idea what they are doing, what their motives are, what the future might bring from them. Demonstrating the fact of the secret-keeping is the first step in enabling the public to understand the actual conditions of our current existence and perhaps to act against this massive, decades-long manipulation.

You will find that it takes you directly into what has been uncovered by Bragalia. Stalton's paper, approaching the secret development of shape memory metals from the perspective of the lack of public records, confirms the extent of the secrecy involved in extrapolating from what was left on the ground at Roswell.

With the commercial titanium industry, it wasn't keep secret, not at all. What is hazy is the why it was started, who gave the go ahead and where did the money come from. As a comparison, we know the Manhattan Project was kept secret up until the point atomic weapons were used. At that point you couldn't keep that secret. And we now know the steps in the development process. That has never really come out about titanium. I'm obviously well aware of a great many claims regarding reverse engineering of possible discovered ET vehicles but the only real talk of structural metals has come from either Tony or me.

If you do a generic search on "titanium industry" and history, no mention of UFOs or Roswell, my little story on my blog comes up a lot sooner than it should.

history "titanium industry" - Google Search
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
I read the entire piece. Still less than the sum of the parts. The theory goes that development of titanium might have been jumpstarted after 1947 because of reverse engineering of the Roswell wreckage. But the evidence doesn't sustain the theory. The degree to which production of titanium increased after 1945 would follow the natural improvement in production techniques.

But that improvement [note: in the rest of this paragraph I've misunderstood and misrepresented some of what Frank Stalton wrote; apologies] and the sudden rapid increases in production of titanium remained invisible to the public, including corporations not involved in its development and manufacture, as Frank Stalton has discovered. Why? There's a certain similarity in Dow Chemical's not advertising its development and production of napalm alongside its public presentations of its other 'products' during the war in Vietnam.

The sole reason for the theory in the article is that the early history of titanium is murky, but that may merely indicate it was couched in secrecy during WW II to prevent our enemies from knowing what we were doing.

Not 'murky'. As Frank has discovered: invisible. Also, the critical developments took place post-WWII, and post-Roswell.

To be sure, if there was a conspiracy to hide the alien origins, the military and intelligence communities could have devised a more extensive background history as a smokescreen.

As we see in reading this new research by Bragalia and Stalton, they didn't need to devise a smokescreen. What went on proceeded in consummate secrecy.

This doesn't mean we haven't learned a trick or two from captured alien spaceships, but the connections are not well drawn. There is, frankly, no real evidence that any of our technologies were based, in whole or part, on what we learned from ET.

The connections and evidence have been difficult to uncover since they've been buried so deep for so long. That is changing with Bragalia's research and Stalton's recent contribution. More will be brought to the surface through similarly persistent research.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
For science, yes. But there is no evidence than any leap in producing titanium came as the result of alien back engineering.

While we can talk about memory metal and all, assume a race of beings hundreds or thousands of years ahead of us. Do you really think they'd still be using metals that were perfected in our 20th century? Would we be able to reverse engineer any of their technology? That's a huge question.

Again, too many leaps here. It comes across as forcing a Roswell/alien conclusion rather than considering all the possibilities of why the history of Titanium development may be lacking details. There are other reasons far more mundane, and I'm sure you can come up with some if you choose to. Consider them too, weigh them, and don't jump to the ET conclusion unless other ideas have been excluded.

Need I say more?
 

Frank Stalter

Paranormal Maven
For science, yes. But there is no evidence than any leap in producing titanium came as the result of alien back engineering.

While we can talk about memory metal and all, assume a race of beings hundreds or thousands of years ahead of us. Do you really think they'd still be using metals that were perfected in our 20th century? Would we be able to reverse engineer any of their technology? That's a huge question.

Again, too many leaps here. It comes across as forcing a Roswell/alien conclusion rather than considering all the possibilities of why the history of Titanium development may be lacking details. There are other reasons far more mundane, and I'm sure you can come up with some if you choose to. Consider them too, weigh them, and don't jump to the ET conclusion unless other ideas have been excluded.

Need I say more?

We don't know they were perfected but we do know that there was no titanium industry before Roswell and there was no nitinol until the early 60s. To consider any possible ET reverse engineering and not even consider metallurgy is just plain myopic. In the article I consider the other possibility, the military saw and liked, through the US Bureau of Mines, titanium's potential and provided price supports for its' start up, but there's no strong evidence for that taking place either. The only evidence is it started. We don't know the specifics of why.

I should note the original nitinol origin story was they were looking to find a nonmagnetic and noncorroding material for tools that could be safely used in dismantling magnetic mines but in reality it was for Polaris missile nosecones.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Well I still don't know that any of it represents reversed engineered alien technology. I'd love to see that happen, but we're not there yet.
 

Frank Stalter

Paranormal Maven
Well I still don't know that any of it represents reversed engineered alien technology. I'd love to see that happen, but we're not there yet.

I don't know it either. I think I make that pretty clear in the article. I do think it's very, very strange and at least possible a recovered ET spaceship was the tipping point to get the industry going.

"I am jest ahsking da qvestions." Erich von Daniken
 

DissectionStalker

Paranormal Adept
For science, yes. But there is no evidence than any leap in producing titanium came as the result of alien back engineering.
Titanium | Minerals Education Coalition

In 1791, the Reverend William Gregor, an English clergyman and mineralogist, reported that he had discovered a magnetic black sand near the beaches of Cornwall, England. The mineral was named menachanite after the local parish of Menaccan. A few years after Gregor’s discovery, M.H. Klaproth, a German chemist, separated TiO2 from the mineral rutile. Klaproth named the new element titanium after the giants of Greek mythology. In 1825, J.J. Berzelius, a Swedish chemist, performed a crude separation of titanium metal. However, it was not until 1910 that M.A. Hunter, an American chemist, produced pure titanium. W.J. Kroll patented his method for producing titanium metal in 1938. Coincidently, commercial production of titanium metal and TiO2 pigment began in the 1940s.

Maybe this is nothing more than keeping-up with the Russians? The Cold War was already started. Maybe some German materials or German rocket scientist we got was already onto using this type of material? The SR-71 may have been pre-dated by many other plans on the drawing boards decades earlier that were never built or just prototyped or only did basic materials science including the Germans. That would certainly be worth keeping top secret.

The Germans were likely the ones that had some expertise and use of this material during WWII. Regardless, seeing that there was a USA patent for this in 1938, then developing more advanced alloys using titanium for aircraft would already be in high gear to use it for military purposes with prototyping.
 
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