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March 27th show 2011

Forums New posts
It's been a long time since I posted in the forums, but this episode got me back in the mood. I'm actually still listening near the end of the episode, but wow, this guy really goes off the deep end. Generally I enjoy the outrageous claims, but there just seems to be no substance here, it's nothing we haven't heard before in other places. More and more I'm beginning to agree with the people who say that all we know is that we know nothing. With that in mind, I thought the episodes of the past few weeks were great, keep up the good work!

P.S. I finally caught a glimpse of Chris on Ancient Aliens :)
 
Gene Steinberg said:
. As to Sauder, when he says he has a confidential source, you can either accept it or continue to demand he name his source, which he probably isn't going to do.
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Sauder has been around for quite awhile and is held in high regard by Richard Dolan for whatever that his worth. You have to wonder if folks like Sauder (and Bennewitz), who start poking around highly classified programs don't get side-tracked and messed with if they get too close. I don't know. Certainly, the artificial telepathy that Sauder describes isn't that implausible. That he would be targeted after publishing such an article and led to pursue this line of research where he would draw certain conclusions doesn't seem that implausible either. Sauder is an incredibly serious guy making some admittedly incredible claims.

That there are large underground bases seems a forgone conclusion and hardly seems like something anyone could reasonably argue against. That there are clandestine activities going on in them seems unquestionable as well. Beyond that, you have to wonder just what anyone on the outside could possible really know about what happens in them other than general national security activities. We can guess, we can imagine, and I think that is where a lot of the very outre theories come from about them. Oh ... and the shamanic drug induced vision quests might have something to do with it as well.
 
Chief Brody:
You are too kind on your assessment on "Dr. Richard Sauder". I would define this guy as a classic "Douche Bag". I am not a spiritual person, but I think I can recognize spiritual people like the Dalai Lama. Joseph Campbell and Huston Smith. These guys are the real thing. They do not berate others for their lack of intelligence, or talk about how intelligent or spiritual they are. I do however have an undergraduate degree in chemistry, and work at a large state university, and I can tell you from listening to his use of language, he could never defend a thesis in order to receive a graduate degree from a legitimate university, much less a doctorate. Lastly, his statement that there is a "Universal Digital Computer". Really?? Does it use Boolean? Digital? Really? What a crock. This guy should go on C-2-C and he would be sure to pick up his "1% of true believers".
　
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Does anyone remember whether it was Philip K. Dick or John Lilly that said they had contact with some malicious artificial machine like intelligence? Dick had the Black Iron Prison and VALIS thing and Lilly had the Earth Coincidence Council. But one of the two also spoke about some evil machine intelligence that sounds a lot like what Sauder was talking about.
 
trainedobserver said:
Does anyone remember whether it was Philip K. Dick or John Lilly that said they had contact with some malicious artificial machine like intelligence? Dick had the Black Iron Prison and VALIS thing and Lilly had the Earth Coincidence Council. But one of the two also spoke about some evil machine intelligence that sounds a lot like what Sauder was talking about.
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Yeah, it was good ol' PKD who mentioned the AI ( it was an alien probe). And he suffered from "time displacement."

But even he wasn't sure whether he just plain crazy or not.
 
I am finding this an interesting and entertaining episode, but then again I find the whole underground theorizing a fascinating subject.

The signal to noise ratio (sometimes literally in this episode) makes it impossible to determine what parts of his theorizing and research has merit. I take much of it with a grain of salt, but his flights of fancy do not negate his research… they just make it all so much more problematic.

What this interview brings to mind is the question: why do so many ufo / para / conspiracy buffs lose their minds?

I vividly remember reading an interview in the early 90s with Glenn Campbell (was that right?), the Groom Lake Desert Rat, in -- of all places -- the punk rock rag 'flipside' (great magazine). They had a long, fascinating talk with this clearly smart guy, and his observations of the Area 51 site. I subscribed to his email newsletter and read it consistently with interest, until he started losing his mind (to my estimation). The stories and observations got stranger and his flights of fancy took over from what had been a fairly meticulous stakeout operation. It scared me, and it roused my curiosity.

Since then, I keep seeing the same thing happening over and over again to other researches/buffs, and I step back and start examining my interest in the subject, and keep my distance.

This makes me so much more aware of people like Gene and Chris who have kept to the subject for a long time, and are able to keep their heads from exploding, and have a sense of both mystery and humor about it. Keep asking the questions, keep doubting the answers. Yes? No? Maybe.
 
J.T. said:
What this interview brings to mind is the question: why do so many ufo / para / conspiracy buffs lose their minds? ... Since then, I keep seeing the same thing happening over and over again to other researches/buffs, and I step back and start examining my interest in the subject, and keep my distance.
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You bring up a highly interesting and very pertinent subject. Why do some researchers go native and others don't?
 
Personally I found the guest extremely rude. He kept bumping in and interrupting the hosts, he was incoherent at times, and showed nothing but contempt for anyone who dares to contradict him in his conclusions.

His 'expertise' is supposedly in underground bases, but strangely enough the show barely touched the subject! It was all ramblings on Roswell and mind control and I don't know what else --contradicting Chris when he pointed out that DMT is the active ingredient in ayahuasca might be seen as something that casts doubt on the way he does research.

Oh well... you can't always win 'em all :(
 
red_pill_junkie said:
Personally I found the guest extremely rude. He kept bumping in and interrupting the hosts, he was incoherent at times, and showed nothing but contempt for anyone who dares to contradict him in his conclusions.

His 'expertise' is supposedly in underground bases, but strangely enough the show barely touched the subject! It was all ramblings on Roswell and mind control and I don't know what else --contradicting Chris when he pointed out that DMT is the active ingredient in ayahuasca might be seen as something that casts doubt on the way he does research.

Oh well... you can't always win 'em all :(
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True:

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I have to say that out of all the guests this show has ever had....or at least all of those I have ever heard, Dr. Richard Sauder is without doubt so out there in the fog, that it's a serious shame the broadcast wasn't recorded on April 1st.

At least that way I could have turned off the computer, smiled, and said, "Gene and Chris, you guys....."

:frown:
 
Dr Saunders should go and talk to all the faimlies who's relatives were killed by terrorist in 9/11 and I suppose he thinks the London terrorist attack on 2005 was done by Government aswell !
 
Gene Steinberg said:
The problem here is that there is very little "tangible proof" of many of these claims. Much of it consists of anecdotal observations. That's been the problem all along, and why so little of this is taken seriously by so-called mainstream science. As to Sauder, when he says he has a confidential source, you can either accept it or continue to demand he name his source, which he probably isn't going to do. I think I pressed him where appropriate, and you can refer to his books to see if he's able to back up his research.
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Exactly, anyone looking for proof in a podcast, has a long waiting time ahead.
Yes he was a bit strange sounding,Yes he was very self assertive strong willed. I dont believe the 911 conspiracy or drug stuff either, but as to proof im not looking for any in a podcast, im looking for out of the box ideas, and he had plenty of those.

You dont have to (should never) swallow what anyone says hook line and sinker, but its good to allow your mind to be teased with new ideas, concepts and possibilitys.
I for example agree a machine intellect/s could be part of the picture.
Biological intellect is the entirety of our local model of reality, but i think that the two can and likely do co-exist in the greater reality.
I dont agree with his conclusions that we are being enslaved by one, though it may well be part of the natural order we eventually be absorbed by one, if its not done for us, we may well do it ourselves

by the end of the 2030s; humans and non-biological machines will then merge so effectively that the differences between them will no longer matter; and, after that, human intelligence, transformed for the better, will start to expand outward into the universe, around about 2045. With this last prediction, Kurzweil is referring not to any recognisable type of space travel, but to a kind of space infusion. "Intelligence," he writes, "will begin to saturate the matter and energy in its midst [and] spread out from its origin on Earth."
It's as well to mention at this point that, in 2005, Mikhail Gorbachev personally congratulated Kurzweil for foreseeing the pivotal role of communications technology in the collapse of the Soviet Union, and that Microsoft chairman Bill Gates calls him "the best person I know at predicting the future of artificial intelligence". A man of lesser accomplishments, touting the same head-spinning claims, would impress few beyond an inner circle of sci-fi obsessives, but Kurzweil – honoured as an inventor by US presidents Lyndon B Johnson and Bill Clinton – has rightfully earned himself a stockpile of credibility.
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We are already using technology to bypass our biological limitations, wether its using a horse or a supersonic jet for transport, bypassing our biological limitations seems to be a built in drive.

For me podcasts are not about proof, they are about teasing us into thinking about the enigma in new ways
 
Mike:
good points on the "out of the box" thinking. I too do not look at Para cast as a formal lecture on abnormalities. I enjoy the show because it is "out there" as you state, and I have fun with it. The only problem with our guest, (as I said in my original post), he is a Douche bag.　 In fact one could no doubt look in the dictionary under the Definition of "Douche bag" and find; "see Dr. Saunders". :) This guy was not interesting to listen too. If one wants way out ideas, let’s get Bill Burns back on. He can come up with some way out ideas, but he is not a pud about it.
 
plumbbob12 said:
Mike:
good points on the "out of the box" thinking. I too do not look at Para cast as a formal lecture on abnormalities. I enjoy the show because it is "out there" as you state, and I have fun with it. The only problem with our guest, (as I said in my original post), he is a Douche bag.　 In fact one could no doubt look in the dictionary under the Definition of "Douche bag" and find; "see Dr. Saunders". :) This guy was not interesting to listen too. If one wants way out ideas, let’s get Bill Burns back on. He can come up with some way out ideas, but he is not a pud about it.
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One mans meat i anothers poison i guess,
Truth be told i could look up douche bag and find a description of a hygene product, with no reference to Dr Saunders, though i take your point :)
 
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