March 22nd / interview with Mike C!

[Schuyler]

I think I was pretty direct, and impersonal. No attitude here. Mike has the email...so he can post it. You now have what I was sent. So, it's up to you to call it out.

Legally speaking, you, Jeff, 'own' the email you were sent, though Mike can also post it, of course. But there's nothing preventing you posting it and you don't need anyone's permission. You're the one claiming Mike mis-quoted his own email, so prove it and let's just see how much of a big deal this is.

 

[mikec]

Here is the entire email, un-edited. Also, the email from Jeff is below. The topic was the audio podcast that never aired.

Yes - Jeff is correct. I did edit the text, I added the (...) right were I moved the text. The complete text, I feel, seems to keep the same tone. I wasn't trying to decieve anyone.

And again - I totally stand by this email, it exactly states my state of mind at the time. And I still feel this way.

I'll say what I said before: I think the act of coming out, stepping forward, and talking about my experiences honestly - is - in fact "doing my small part to elevate the world consciousness"




Subject: Re: podcast
Date: July 22, 2008 8:42:06 AM MDT


Jeff,

Huge thanks...

Sorry about my "needy" emails. I have been sort of in a weird head space this summer. Sorta stuck.

I know EXACTLY the direction I need to go in, but it's hard, it's like my feet are glued to the floor.

The interview with you was a big thing for me, part of my "coming out" and that process seems really important to me. And, to the world.

So, this whole thing has me sorta anxious, (in a good way) but anxious none the less. And rather than doing my small part to elevate the world consciousness (a lofty proclamation, but sorta true) I compulsively sit at my computer...

peace,
M!

__________________________________________
On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Jeff Ritzmann wrote:

Mike-right now no idea this week (I'm hoping tonight I get time to edit the segments together). I'm thinking about making the podcast not on any specific day of the week, because we're moving and boxing up, painting, laying carpet, flooring and all that. I just cant keep to a solid schedule right now.


___________________________________________
Extra text added 9:33 am mountain time / 3.28.09
___________________________________________

I would like to point out that during this ongoing forum discussion (here and elsewhere), at no point did Jeff exaggerate my actions or vilify me. Jeff has made some valid points, and I respect the way he presented them. I feel could go thru and pick out some of the things he listed, and I think I could convincingly argue my side - but I feel no need.

When I edited that short email I did it because I was responding defensively to another person who was being mean-spirited in his tone. Jeff was totally correct, I edited it. I feel strongly I kept the same tone, and my actions were not deceptive.

Mike Clelland

 

[jritzmann]

Here is the entire email, un-edited.

Thanks Mike. That is indeed it. Now, at least those wondering can see what I mean. That's all I wanted clarified.

Have a good weekend all.

 

[Gareth]

Mikec I never got a chance to repost my question about the documentary over here (as you requested).

copy/paste:

The documentary. Whats going on with that? Whos project is it? Did they contact you or the other way 'round?

 

[mikec]

Gareth - Thanks for the post. I'll get to it shortly, and to tell it right - it's gunna be long.

thanks.
Mike

 

[Schuyler]

So, this whole thing has me sorta anxious, (in a good way) but anxious none the less. And rather than doing my small part to elevate the world consciousness (a lofty proclamation, but sorta true) I compulsively sit at my computer...

Well, mikec, I don't know if this is any big deal, and I don't want to appear pedantic about this, but you DID edit the note and skipped the phrase "rather than" which puts an entirely opposite spin on what you wrote which, ironically, makes it appear a little worse with the editing. As I've said before, I doubt your experiences are paranormal, but I don't doubt your experiences. I think you have a tendancy to hyperbole, which is basically what has gotten you into some hot water here.

Now, if you ever meet Orthon or Aura Rhanes, do tell.....

 

[skunkape]

This is starting to sound like a cheerleader's dressing-room. MikeC isn't trying to offer some scientific-proof of anything. I believe him when he says some weird-shit happened.
If he verbally over-embellishes his description of some of his perceptions for some of your personal tastes, I see that as no reason to be a dick.

 

[mikec]

The fact that I said I was involved in a documentary came up during the podcast and again on the forums.

(I got accused of name-dropping in some of the forum posts, be aware, I am going to use real names in this)

The documentary idea started a few years ago, in 2006. This was well before I ever seriously looked into my own experiences. All I had were a few memories, and I simply dismissed them.

I’ve been reading books on the UFO subject since about 1991. But, a few years back, when I got Netflix I found that they had a list of UFO documentaries. I ordered a few, and I found they were all really bad. I thought to myself, how hard could this be? I should make one. My previous film experience was limited to some animation and TV commercials.

I knew a guy who lives here in the same small town with me, and he has a lot of experience doing film work as a producer. In the summer of 2006 I presented the idea of a straight documentary to him, on the UFO abduction phenomenon. At first he didn't think it would work. I gave him a few books, and then I wrote up a proposal for the documentary I was imagining. (Maybe I’ll post this proposal, it’s pretty tame - with NOTHING about me in it)

This would have been the fall of 2006. And this documentary idea was just a straight, serious, no exploitation look at the abduction phenomenon. Nothing to do with me.

The producer said yes, and we started taking about how to get started.

We went to meet with a professional cameraman in a nearby town, and during that meeting, the producer talked about how he wanted to do more of a narrative, following a story. I remained quiet.

During the drive home from the meeting I told the producer about three of my memories. (These were the content of the Nov.08 Paracast interview). They were a missing time event, a vivid nighttime sighting and seeing entities outside my window in 1993.

I'll add that I dismissed these memories as something that just seemed too weird to trust. This was the very first time he had heard me mention ANYTHING about my own memories.

He looked at me with an expression of astonishment.

Right then, he told me in no uncertain terms, that we simply had to make this documentary, with me as the subject. My immediate response was: “NO FUCKING WAY! I am NOT brave enough.”

The producer said, “I’m going to give you some time, and there is going to be a day when I ask you again. But I think this could be a really interesting project."

Again, I said no.

And we didn't talk after that.

About a month later, I had an intensely vivid dream. There was a bunch of mythological imagery, and maps and assignments and the need for an adventure (this dream could be it's own post). When I woke up, I knew the dream was all about the documentary, the real life adventure of it.

I got out of bed, the phone rang, it was the producer - he got right to the point, he asked me if I was willing to be the subject of the documentary. After the overt content from the dream, I said yes.

This dream sort of flipped me out, it was so vivid and intense I just felt like saying yes was the right thing to do.

One of my first interviews on camera was with Leo Sprinkle. I had met him earlier. The interview was fun and super interesting. I asked him some questions and he asked me some questions, and I explained my story as best as I could.

He attempted a hypnosis session with a camera in the room, alas, nothing happened.

These first series of interviews were really fun. I liked all the people we talked with, and I found their questions of me to be really interesting. I'll also add that at this point I was very self critical of my memories.

We also interviewed Budd Hopkins, Dave Jacobs, Peter Robbins, Barbara Lamb as well as several people who claim the abduction phenomenon.

But after meeting with Budd, a few more memories came forward and it really freaked me out. Suddenly, I was hit with the fact that this might be true. And it scared me.

We did a little more filming, but at this point I was more nervous, and visibly anxious.

About this time, the project fizzled. The folks involved (me included) will talk on the phone periodically, but it's stalled out. Nothing has happened in over a year.

Recently, I've been reviewing the footage, and some of it is pretty interesting. I come across okay (I was worried I would seem crazy).

Will it ever get started again? I think so.

I had a long talk with Budd about the documentary (off camera) and he understood the value of following one person as he looks into what might have happened. He was very encouraging.

I'll add that Leo was enormously supportive of the idea too. He thought the concept was good, that I was the right person for it, and he told me to keep at it.

Did this stuff feed my ego? Undoubtedly, hearing Budd and Leo tell me they were supportive was extremely gratifying. An ego boost? Sure.

But, the deeper I got into it, the more freaked-out I got.

There is some footage of me talking to the camera, lamenting: “What am I doing? This is all crazy, how did I end up here?”

I very much like the two other people involved in the project. They have been very strict that there should be nothing at all exploitative in it.

 

[Schuyler]

Very cool, mike. The fact you already have the footage shot is a real plus. You don't have to start from scratch. Good luck with your efforts.

 

[mike]

Dave, i want you to look at this topologically,

you break your own rule about "not having any friends" in this game, and promote a guest, who in turn promotes Ms Lamb.

Ms. Lamb is the quintessential "part of the problem" with abduction research. One only need to Google the name and see that. Listen to her appearance on Karyn Dolan's show, where she states in the opening minutes that what got her into this study was "Contact from the Pleiades"...that's right, the Billy Meier story, which she calls a "wonderful book" on the Dolan show.

[URL="http://paranormalradionetwork.org/2009/0....hardcastle.aspx"]http://paranormalradionetwork.org/2009/0....hardcastle.aspx[/URL]

who in turn promotes the one armed bandit.......


when Mr Basset does that you call it pissing in the pool.

can you please explain to ,me how in this matter you havent inadvertantly done the same.

would your reaction have been different if he had promoted Ms Harris ?(who to my mind is interchangable with Ms Lamb).

ive publically stood by many of Your convictions, and i did so coming from a place of intellectual honesty, not from a sense of loyalty or fear of being bullied otherwise.

im debating the data not the personalitys.

trust me on this

The more clarity/honesty one can bring to focus on oneself, ones thoughts and motivations, the less secrets the universe as a whole holds

 

[mike]

The interview with you was a big thing for me, part of my "coming out" and that process seems really important to me. And, to the world.

i STILL would love to know, what part of this case, what aspect is "really important to the world"

doesnt anyone else want to know what "it" is ?

 

[mikec]

I feel that I was honest in my feelings about Barabra Lamb on the podcast, I was clear that I did not agree with her on everything.

I believe I said (and I'm doing this from memory) that:

I don't see eye-to-eye with Barbara Lamb on everything, she is a little too "californian" for my tastes, meaning she's sort of new-agey.

I also said I believe she has a good heart. And she is a very sweet grandmother, and I felt comfortable with her.

If anyone wants to review the audio and create a transcript, it should read pretty close.

Barbara Lamb attempted a hypnosis session, and nothing happened. We talked for a long time, and I found my time with her to be enormously supportive. She is a trained professional hypnotherapist.



(extra, added 9;08 pm mountain time 3.27)

Also - I got to see Barbara Lamb in the support group each night, five nights in a row. She was excellent, and this was an arena where having a good heart was essential. I disagree with her on many points (and we talked about some of them) but I found her to be enormously compassionate with that group.

 

[David Biedny]

Mike,

You're right, my judgment is worthless, I have failed the entire world. I did not spend weeks researching Mike C., I did not realize that he's in cahoots with this Lamb woman, who is a dues-paying member of the Meier clan.

I think you should take over my responsibilities on this show, so I can get on with my professional life. Lord knows it'll be more constructive than this horseshit. So when are you taking over for me? We gotta coordinate with Gene, and you'll need to come forward with your actual name and identity. I hope you have a decent radio voice, dude, and don't mind anonymous people on the Web deconstructing your every thought and comment. You're right, I should have absolutely NO friends in this sandbox, cool, well, Jeff is obviously no longer a friend, check, Vaeni is history, check, Mike C., go fuck yourself, you lying, two-faced piece of dirt. You're making shit up, you psychopath, so the doe-eyed space brother believers can look up to you and tell you how cool you are. I hope you're happy with the results of your lies, you've ruined my life and others. You should go kill yourself now. Mike has determined that you don't deserve to live, and I should die as well, for my totally mindless lack of discernment abilities.

dB

 

[Gareth]

mikec:

So just to be clear, when you woke up from the vivid dream the phone immediately rang and it was the documentary producer?

Did you retroactively associate the dream with the doco? or did you equate the dream with the doco as soon as you woke up?

Had you organised to speak with the producer on that day? Did you have any idea that he might have been calling you that day, or even that week?

(just curious)

 

[mike]

I feel that I was honest in my feelings about Barabra Lamb on the podcast, I was clear that I did not agree with her on everything.

I believe I said (and I'm doing this from memory) that:

I don't see eye-to-eye with Barbara Lamb on everything, she is a little too "californian" for my tastes, meaning she's sort of new-agey.

I also said I believe she has a good heart. And she is a very sweet grandmother, and I felt comfortable with her.

Mate im fine with that, i think we all operate that way to one degree or another, the greater point id make though is Mr Basset said more or less the same thing about some of the people he was asked about. the same thing

but he got torn to shreds for pissing in the pool for doing so.

 

[Gareth]

Mate im fine with that, i think we all operate that way to one degree or another, the greater point id make though is Mr Basset said more or less the same thing about some of the people he was asked about. the same thing

but he got torn to shreds for pissing in the pool for doing so.

why are you being so reductionist with this though mike? Two completely different scenarios and context.

Bassett invites these buffoons to HIS conference that HE pays for and runs and promotes. He then talks about these people as if they were credible.

Mikec, while pointing out that hes not at all confortable with everything that this lady is about, spent a bit of personal time with her because it made him feel happier/calmer/whatever.

From one extreme to the other.

 

[mikec]

Reply to Gareth,

I had a vivid dream. And the message of the dream was to have a REAL adventure. To ignore the map and step into the unknown. The dream is fascinating (and maybe another post).

I abruptly woke up and immediately realized that the dream was about the documentary. The metaphors were transparent. It was obvious, even as I lay in bed.

I sleep in a loft, and I had to climb down the stairs. My feet hit the floor, and the phone rang.

I picked up the phone and it was the producer. He's a new yorker and didn't waste time, he said: "I'm tired of waiting. Yes or no?"

And I said yes.

That is the way I make decisions, for good or for bad.

And to answer your other questions:
The producer said he would call me eventually, and I had no idea when. But, I figured he would call sooner or later. And, in the weeks where we didn't talk, I was all tied up in knots about the project. After I said yes, that pretty much melted away.

*

Also - David Biedny is my new favorite person in the whole world. I love that guy. In fact, I just kissed his avatar, and my computer screen is all wet.

 

[aaronpsych]

I didn't expect to enjoy this episode as much as I did. IMO it was refreshing hearing from someone who is not presenting themselves as an 'expert' but as a 'person' who is grappling with some strange experiences. MikeC I felt that I really connected with your sense of confusion over certain experiences and felt that it brought a sense of realism to what you were stating. So MikeC I'd like to thank you for having the cojones for putting it out there, i for one benefited from your actions.

Whilst its important to keep a critical objective 'open minded' view point, I think its also important to keep a forum in which people can put some of this stuff out there. I feel that some of the critique on these boards can border on harassment and tend to forget that these posts are being made by 'real' people with real fears and concerns. I don't normally post MikeC but felt that in this case I wanted to throw in my show of support and thanks for sharing your experiences.

Also to counter your theory somewhat, I have a history of depression and paranormal experiences and felt compelled to 'share' at around the age of thirty.....

 

[NNN]

Concerning this point about people in their mid-forties deciding to come out with their experiences I'll say the following:

Since participating on the Web I have felt an increasing urge to discuss, at least, my experiences. I began to use the Web about three or four years ago. I am 45 years old. Make of this what you will!

I think it's fair to say that I'm not keen on publicity. Many years ago I came up with an idea concerning a change in roadside verge cutting policy. This idea became the new policy. Eventually, this policy was copied by Local Government across Britain. I was asked whether I wanted to be acknowledged for being the person behind the idea. I decided that I would prefer to remain anonymous and I am still that anonymous person today.

I admit that I occasionally think that it would be good to get some praise for this. Never mind, Eh. I've done something for my community, at least.

 

[Gen]

I've been thinking hard about men in their 40s feeling compelled to come forward now with their experiences, and why this might be. Intuitively, this struck me as being dead on, and one need only look around this forum for anecdotal evidence of it.

I can't speculate on what any non-human side of the equation would be, but it strikes me as significant that Whitley Strieber would also have been in his forties when he came forward with his experiences in the 1980's.

It also makes me think of the traditional Jewish restrictions against studying the Kabbalah -- one was supposed to be forty years old (and male, and married) before even beginning, the idea being that once you had a real stake in this world, you were less likely to be swept away or driven insane by magical studies.

I do think it's fair to say that by the time men reach their forties, they more or less know who they are. They've usually achieved some level of career success and status within the community, and it may feel safer then to stop and look inward.

Which leaves the question -- why men in particular? Men's experiences in this realm would naturally be given more credence and significance than women's would be, in this culture. If Whitley Strieber had been a woman, for instance, I think people would have reacted very differently to his account. He may not have even written it down. So that makes me wonder what the female side to this equation might be, if there is one, and whether it may be the missing side of the story.