Awww come on Gene, I'm trying to coin a term here... I know, it was only a few times that he actually "pulled a Biedny," but I aspire to" Godzilla of ufology Taliban" greatness. Grrr-Grr-GRRRR
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Louis Jarvis
- Thread starter lancemoody
- Start date
tyder001
Paranormal Adept
Gene, I don't know (and no I don't wanna get that started again) all the details. But, you impress me (again) with your classy response about a person you would have every reason to put down. Well done sir.
As for the episode being talked about here I knew this was coming. This forum has a very "snarky" way of calling people names and making allegations of stupidity. It's actually a concept that folks like Rush Limbaugh have used for years. Make fun and call names and de-humanize or make your "target" illigitimate by your ridicule. Only problem is you might be left with only the jimmy randi crowd listening. Most folks are not quite as sterile and cold and I think your audience will drop off if that happens. However, you will have (go ahead ask em and they will tell ya.) all the "smart" folks and the rest of the dummies in the human race will go look for their discussion of spiritual matters elsewhere. I still don't get it. There is no paranormal and no God and no life after death and no hope beyond the few short years you have here. So, why in the world are all of you smart "skeptics" still around here trying to talk sense into the rest of us "naked apes?"
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------
Ya know what? I was to harsh in the last part of that quote. I argued (and I was and am right) with Paul and a couple of others that nobody (unless they are vulgar or making threats) should be banned. Yet, I sometime act as if I would like for all skeptics to just turn off and drop out of the discussion. How boring would that be? So, I apologize. I still think there really is a spiritual component to mankind and I still think some of you are close minded on the subject. But, I do enjoy the back and forth. Nobody likes being called names and attacked and ridiculed. But, healthy debate is a good thing.
Peace! 8)
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
I thought the show was interesting but thats all. Good job Christopher and Gene. Paul and Lancemoody has a point
but rather insult someones 'mental state' I thought we moved on from that type of language. Leave that to debunker's.
Cool Lance! here's an idea: establish a personal dialog with Ray. You are a bright guy... you have a scientific mind. You ain't no true-believing/debunkin dummy. Shoot him an email, introduce yourself. Ask him well-thought out, heart-felt, honest questions and you will most likely appreciate his insight--if you can keep up. He is truly an amazing, incredible man. He is very open to cut-to-the-chase inquiries concerning the nature of UFO science and the awesome technology that is apparently being utilized by these AAO/UAP/UFOs. Hey, I ain't the smartest tack in the pack, but I've met many, many of this field's celebrities, poseurs, bowel movers, thinkers and shakers nobody comes close to Ray. Nobody. I don't agree with some of his conclusions (ETH), but I can't argue with the scientific data has has meticulously documented . They just put his Ichnology work permanently into the Smithsonian Natural History Museum, hello? Anybody home?
A word of caution: careful what you intellectually and scientifically wish for. I would suggest you have your questions and your motivations properly thought out before contacting him. He's a busy guy finishing up photos and diagrams (w/ Dr. David Wisampl) for official recognition of the new species of nodorasaur he discovered inside the beltway, MD and time's a precious for Ray--He's 70+ and still going strong in several fields.
I've already posted his email address---have fun and learn something!
Super evidence? In what field? Not only is his scientific work on permanent display in the Smithsonian, he is the only paleontologist with his portrait included with the display. Go figure? I think the name of the exhibit speaks volumes about the level of his brilliance: Dinosaurs in our backyardhttp://ourstrangeplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=484&Itemid=9. What other field are you referring too, "ufoology"?
The acceptable, strict way that scientists present a hypothesis (and the accompanying data) to other experts in a particular field of study, is in a pear-reviewed journal. Scientists don't plaster their work in the media/Internet and then publish. That's not how it's down in the big leagues. Ray is a big-league kinda guy (see: smithsonian work) . I know, Lance (and others) we all want to see the goods and bask in the glow of the inglorious refutation of our skeptical preconceptions, but sometimes the scientists (professional and accredited or amateur) choose to present (what they feel is) groundbreaking data, in a manner that will be taken seriously by mainstream academia. I suggested that you contact Ray and ask him these questions. I won't suggest this again because I have other posts to read, emails to answer, bills to pay, articles and books to write and new cases to tackle... (the SLV has some breaking sighting reports I need to chase down etc etc etc ) EDIT OOOps I lost track of which thread we were posting on, my bad, but I think I made my point about Ray.
P
Paul Kimball
Guest
I apologize for referring to Jarvis as a wacko, which has clearly offended some of his friends.
However, perhaps someone could explain to me how anything that he said is any different than the kind of stuff that we hear from Steven Greer, or Michael Horn (re: Billy Meier)?
He talks fast. He throws "facts" around, and works hard to baffle people with the sheer amount of verbiage and the speed with which he fires it off, usually following any even remotely controversial statement with something like "as you know" or "it's an everyday fact". These are the tricks of the trade for people like Jarvis. And it seems to have worked, despite the occasional effort by Gene to slow him down.
The best spin on him that I can find is that he isn't a huckster, but actually believes everything that he's saying. There's a word for people like that.
Vive le Paracast 2010.
However, perhaps someone could explain to me how anything that he said is any different than the kind of stuff that we hear from Steven Greer, or Michael Horn (re: Billy Meier)?
He talks fast. He throws "facts" around, and works hard to baffle people with the sheer amount of verbiage and the speed with which he fires it off, usually following any even remotely controversial statement with something like "as you know" or "it's an everyday fact". These are the tricks of the trade for people like Jarvis. And it seems to have worked, despite the occasional effort by Gene to slow him down.
The best spin on him that I can find is that he isn't a huckster, but actually believes everything that he's saying. There's a word for people like that.
Vive le Paracast 2010.
Sometimes subjects arise in conversation that don't necessarily interest us. Like the Jarvis episode for some here, for example. We fade out for a moment and then fade back in and we've lost track of the stream of logic. Happens to all of us. Me especially. Just because someone attempts to convey information that doesn't jibe or conform to our preconceptions doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong or "wacko," it simply means that we haven't had the luxury of becoming up to speed on the topic they are addressing and it's OK to lose the thread sometimes. I don't care what you say, Paul: Louis is a rare dude--I've known him for almost 20 years. If I thought he was unhinged, do you think I would have suggested Gene coax him out to be on the show? He's a Buddhist who is also Christian prophesy scholar. \Last time I checked, there ain't many of 'em around. I don't believe much in what he has to say, but I sure am fascinated by his research and I've been taking notes for years!
I think we can all agree, we may be living that Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times." There are a few of us that have studied the implications and ramifications of these interesting times--Louis is one of them IMO, and his years of networking and research deserve respect--whether you think so or not. At the very least, I'm happy to be aware of all the mind-blowing prophesies that seem to be coming to head all around the world from diverse cultures. I doubt that we are in "the end times," [twilight zone theme] but neither you nor I really know for sure, do we? You didn't insult Louis or the board w/ your wacko comment, you reminded us all of how much we really don't know about what is called the "prophetic" tradition. And thats OK. I think many of us will be fervently praying for something sometime in the next few years...
P
Paul Kimball
Guest
This is simply New Age premillenialism (as opposed to the more traditional Christian version, with which I am well familiar, having made it my focus of study in grad school), and it has absolutely nothing to do with serious research into the paranormal.
People who don't know better like to think they have stumbled onto something new, and momentous. In fact, every generation, and every faith, has its end-of-the-world mythos and prophecies, and none of them have ever come true. My favourite has always been the Millerites in the 19th century - when the second coming of Jesus didn't occur on the predicted date, they just moved the date. More modern "scholars" of this sort have gotten a bit more sophisticated - they avoid fixing a date as much as possible, and always make sure that they add a caveat that "the future is not fixed - we can change this" which is the euqivalent of a Get Out Of Jail Free card when your prophecies don't come true.
Miller's failure, by the way, was fittingly called "The Great Disappointment" - which is exactly what people like Jarvis and anyone who buys what's he's "selling" are in for in the years to come.
Paul
Kandinsky
Curious Cat
The most ingenious caveat is, 'as we know it.'
e.g. 'The world will end...as we know it.'
It kills meaningful discussion and hustles past the cognitive dissonance that should occur following over 2000 years of failed prophecies.
Failed end of the world predictions from 30 to 1920 CE
icculus
Paranormal Maven
Holy mother of Mary-HoChi-Min-FBI-CIA-BBQ-LOL...WTF...
This guy sounds like the retarded love-child from an orgy between Bruce Goldberg, John Lear, Bill Knell and the "Dr." Steven Greer. Wowzers. The Paracast needs to put it's teeth back on and call morons like this out on their bullsh!t. Seriously. Maybe this happened towards the end, but by 30 minutes my brain was mush and I tuned out and purchased a pile of gold coins and water filters.
This guy sounds like the retarded love-child from an orgy between Bruce Goldberg, John Lear, Bill Knell and the "Dr." Steven Greer. Wowzers. The Paracast needs to put it's teeth back on and call morons like this out on their bullsh!t. Seriously. Maybe this happened towards the end, but by 30 minutes my brain was mush and I tuned out and purchased a pile of gold coins and water filters.
jpw.in.wi
Still Seeking Samantha
LOL!!!!!
Yes, definitely a tough one to listen to, but it never hurts to be reminded of the types of claims people are making out there.
As a Catholic, I found this guy particularly humorous. I would hope listeners are informed and balanced enough that I wouldn't even have to say this, but he really doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to apparitions of Mary, or anything that Catholics know or are supposed to think about those apparitions. He plays so fast and loose with those topics that it calls into question his claims about the teachings and traditions of the Hopi and Buddhist sects he also brought into his verbal whirlpool.
As Gene said, we were definitely in the Paracast!!!!!
P
pixelsmith
Guest
LOL!!!!!
Yes, definitely a tough one to listen to, but it never hurts to be reminded of the types of claims people are making out there.
As a Catholic, I found this guy particularly humorous. I would hope listeners are informed and balanced enough that I wouldn't even have to say this, but he really doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to apparitions of Mary, or anything that Catholics know or are supposed to think about those apparitions. He plays so fast and loose with those topics that it calls into question his claims about the teachings and traditions of the Hopi and Buddhist sects he also brought into his verbal whirlpool.
As Gene said, we were definitely in the Paracast!!!!!
So..... as a Catholic you say it never hurts to be reminded of the types of claims people are making out there? Um.. think about that for a minute my friend. I was catholic for awhile... this guys claims are tame compared to what I was told to believe.
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Agree pixelsmith, sounds as the teenagers humor has overtaken the paracast with such low acts in using 'poor choice of words' This guy sounds like the retarded love-child from an orgy between Bruce Goldberg, John Lear, Bill Knell and the "Dr." Steven Greer. Wowzers. " as term of jest and you folks sound just as bad remember Mr Louis Javis was a guest.:frown:
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
I'd give it a listen.
It is astounding isn't it? Even though none of the previous countless "end time" predictions has ever come true there is obviously a widespread readiness to believe in new ones. This all has its roots in the misconception that the universe is human centric and that the human presence, actions, and beliefs have some real significance outside of human society itself. There is a certain kind of arrogance or perhaps its actually an innocence that allows human beings to view themselves as so significant that deities would orchestrate cosmic events to punish or reward them.
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
Although you are right in the context of western cultures, this is not the root of prophecies in eastern philosophies. Actually it is the complete opposite: humans are so insignificant that they are subject to cosmic "seasons" (yugas), just like plants and all the rest. The end of time (kali yuga) is just the human equivalent of winter when all the leaves are falling, then a period of rest is followed by a new blooming. Seen like that it is more a manifestation of humility. To continue the parallel with your post, the deities don't even deem us important enough to make different rules for plants, animals and humans (one size fits all
).I am not advocating a philosophy over another here, just responding to your post which was sticking the thinking of western cultures (and the 3 great monotheistic religions) to the rest of the planet, wich is occidental-centric and inaccurate. I just though it was worth mentioning; Because we don't stand a chance to understand the intelligence behind UFOs (if there is one, and whatever hypothesis will be the right one), if we can't start to envisage that other human cultures may have completely different paradigms rooting their world view.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Although you are right in the context of western cultures, this is not the root of prophecies in eastern philosophies. Actually it is the complete opposite: humans are so insignificant that they are subject to cosmic "seasons" (yugas), just like plants and all the rest. The end of time (kali yuga) is just the human equivalent of winter when all the leaves are falling, then a period of rest is followed by a new blooming. Seen like that it is more a manifestation of humility. To continue the parallel with your post, the deities don't even deem us important enough to make different rules for plants, animals and humans (one size fits all
I am not advocating a philosophy over another here, just responding to your post which was sticking the thinking of western cultures (and the 3 great monotheistic religions) to the rest of the planet, wich is occidental-centric and inaccurate. I just though it was worth mentioning; Because we don't stand a chance to understand the intelligence behind UFOs (if there is one, and whatever hypothesis will be the right one), if we can't start to envisage that other human cultures may have completely different paradigms rooting their world view.
Well thanks, I appreciate the clarification. While I acknowledge the eastern/western difference here I think the arrogance/ignorance principle still applies to either mindset. The idea that human beings are receiving messages of cosmic importance (from whatever) in the form of prophecies or other revealed knowledge or that humans are somehow "plugged" into cosmic powers and knowledge (being aware of cosmic yugas and whathaveyou) is hubris.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Funny but true.
jpw.in.wi
Still Seeking Samantha
But in other threads (including one I replied in just a few days ago) the topic was all about how quantum physics suggests the material universe seems to respond even across time to the mere scientific observations made by our puny little human minds. Maybe it's not so "arrogant" after all to claim that our lives on this little dust particle really do matter somehow to the rest of the universe.