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Last show... hiiiilarious...
- Thread starter AdamI
- Start date
Rocketsauce
Haagen-Dazs Addict
The truth seems like it's probably stranger than the paranormal. It makes me wonder how often psy-ops was the cause of alleged paranormal encounters. It also makes me wonder how effective psyops technology has been in shaping US policy/history.
In Vallee's book Revelations he discusses a case in France where a guy was abducted where in retrospect the evidence points towards a government operation. Gene brought up the contactee movement, perhaps those were also the result of psyops as well.
Facinating stuff. I hope you guys track down that psyhops dude's son and have him on. Perhaps the psyops made Meeks appear schizophrenic? I wonder within UFO circles who has been messed with in regards to these psyops? Keel (metallic voice on the phone?) Perhaps as Gene pointed out, the Exopolitics people?
In Vallee's book Revelations he discusses a case in France where a guy was abducted where in retrospect the evidence points towards a government operation. Gene brought up the contactee movement, perhaps those were also the result of psyops as well.
Facinating stuff. I hope you guys track down that psyhops dude's son and have him on. Perhaps the psyops made Meeks appear schizophrenic? I wonder within UFO circles who has been messed with in regards to these psyops? Keel (metallic voice on the phone?) Perhaps as Gene pointed out, the Exopolitics people?
AdamI
Skilled Investigator
I posted my little quip when I was only half way through, but I had the same thought toward the end. The last half of that show was amazing.
First of all, you've got to have that guy back on again.
But beyond that...
I've had an armchair interest in all this paranormal stuff for a long time, probably just because I'm curious about everything... but I've always noticed that when you look into "this stuff" (be it UFOs, ghosts, psy stuff, etc.) the topic of conspiracies, parapolitics, and psy-ops always comes up. It's like dark and weird figures like Puharich (and many others) are lurking in the background of the whole field.
So far, the Paracast hasn't really "gone there." But if your goal with the Paracast is to systematically explore the field, I don't think you can avoid it. You're going to have to explore the C-word and all it entails despite the fact that it's an express ticket to weird. I mean serious weird... and serious creepiness...
So yeah... I had the same thought toward the end... to what extent is all this stuff just one big scientifically administered mindfark?
I'm sure many people have read this:
http://www.constitution.org/abus/controll.htm
First of all, you've got to have that guy back on again.
But beyond that...
I've had an armchair interest in all this paranormal stuff for a long time, probably just because I'm curious about everything... but I've always noticed that when you look into "this stuff" (be it UFOs, ghosts, psy stuff, etc.) the topic of conspiracies, parapolitics, and psy-ops always comes up. It's like dark and weird figures like Puharich (and many others) are lurking in the background of the whole field.
So far, the Paracast hasn't really "gone there." But if your goal with the Paracast is to systematically explore the field, I don't think you can avoid it. You're going to have to explore the C-word and all it entails despite the fact that it's an express ticket to weird. I mean serious weird... and serious creepiness...
So yeah... I had the same thought toward the end... to what extent is all this stuff just one big scientifically administered mindfark?
I'm sure many people have read this:
http://www.constitution.org/abus/controll.htm
I went to this site that he mentions and nowhere on it can I see his qualifications or educational background. I may have missed it but it does cause me concern that he calls himself Dr. yet does not disclose from where he got it or when. Also the site is extremely cluttered and seems to jump all over the place.
I am somewhat reluctant to accept his testimony at face value. He talks the talk, and then some, but he seems less than professional in his presentation on the web.
I also found that he tended to bounce around from story to story to story, almost never completing a thought. Not exactly a what I would call a shining star in research from what I heard.
I am somewhat reluctant to accept his testimony at face value. He talks the talk, and then some, but he seems less than professional in his presentation on the web.
I also found that he tended to bounce around from story to story to story, almost never completing a thought. Not exactly a what I would call a shining star in research from what I heard.
Double Nought Spy
May I please go back to the zoo now?
Whoa! That was far more interesting than I would have ever suspected. Funny as hell at times, too. The conspiracy part is very intriguing (in every sense of the word) and I agree that it should be pursued in future shows.
It strikes me as odd that I never made the connection between the frequent references to "metallic voices" in the literature and the electronic voice used by people who have had laryngectomies. I've known a few people who spoke with the aid of those things, and some were quite good at using them. Of course the voices reported by people like Keel might have been something else, but it's interesting to think about what might have been going on.
Like most other endeavors, studying the murky and artificially obscure world of psy-ops and related subjects is all about balance. I think the crew here (Gene and David on the show and everyone on the forum) is capable of exploring the topic without this place turning into the kind of adolescent fantasy fest that places like ATS have become. There are intelligent and sensible people researching it because it is a real subject with far-reaching consequences. Too many people go off the deep end without a clue and start to do (and type) stupid things, but I don't see the kind of foolishness here that would lead to that.
Was it just me, or did we keep getting glimpses of the Trickster in the stories Rorke was telling? Paging Chris O'Brien...
It strikes me as odd that I never made the connection between the frequent references to "metallic voices" in the literature and the electronic voice used by people who have had laryngectomies. I've known a few people who spoke with the aid of those things, and some were quite good at using them. Of course the voices reported by people like Keel might have been something else, but it's interesting to think about what might have been going on.
Like most other endeavors, studying the murky and artificially obscure world of psy-ops and related subjects is all about balance. I think the crew here (Gene and David on the show and everyone on the forum) is capable of exploring the topic without this place turning into the kind of adolescent fantasy fest that places like ATS have become. There are intelligent and sensible people researching it because it is a real subject with far-reaching consequences. Too many people go off the deep end without a clue and start to do (and type) stupid things, but I don't see the kind of foolishness here that would lead to that.
Was it just me, or did we keep getting glimpses of the Trickster in the stories Rorke was telling? Paging Chris O'Brien...
Good point! First off—Peter Frampton & Joe Walsh popularized the TALK Box, at least that is the brand name they made famous.
As far as Tricksterism and the Rorke show. YES, I agree, the tricky duder tends to reveal aspects of its agenda anytime Andrija Puharich's name surfaces. I suggest P-Casters re-read The Stargate Conspiracy, by Lynn Picknett. I have a problem with the tone and some of the content in this book, but it does provide an interesting and detailed look at the work of AP. He seems to crop up at the most interesting of times, as pointed out by Rorke. One detail that was not addressed in depth was AP's involvement with Sydney Gottlieb and the Army Chemical Corp at Ft Detrick, MD in the early 50s. Talk about a nefarious start to one's career! Back then, the masters of deception hadn't quite got their schtick together and (IMO) there are some gems/clues waiting to be polished as to the development of their "psy-op" methods, tools and agenda as it exists today. It seems to me that these tricky dudes have got it down pat it the 21st century and their tracks are extremely difficult to follow in today's world. As they say: practice makes perfect, and after 50+ years, they've had a lot of practice subtly steering the course of politics, religion, science, academia, ufology, etc.,—you name it!.
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
The one I used for years was the Electro Harmonix Golden Throat:
The Heil Talkbox was the device that Frampton used, here's some background.
dB
Rocketsauce
Haagen-Dazs Addict
Yeah the talk box is cool. In the 80's/90's I believe Slash, Mick Mars and Jerry Cantrell used em. The producer Timberland also seemed to use some type of technology that had this type of effect as well. Or was it just a sampler/synthesizer? Anyone know? Here's the tune-
The Vocoder? Man that thing is destroying music. So many people who can't sing are using it. My coworker was telling me how she likes some pop singer because his vocals are so smooth. And without really even knowing who he is I was like, "It's probably because he uses a vocoder" and what do you know? The guy uses one.
I saw Michael Jackson's new movie last night and say what you will, but that dude could sing his ass off. He makes today's pop stars look like amateurs in comparison.
The Vocoder? Man that thing is destroying music. So many people who can't sing are using it. My coworker was telling me how she likes some pop singer because his vocals are so smooth. And without really even knowing who he is I was like, "It's probably because he uses a vocoder" and what do you know? The guy uses one.
I saw Michael Jackson's new movie last night and say what you will, but that dude could sing his ass off. He makes today's pop stars look like amateurs in comparison.
Fab article! Thanks, I learned a lot! I didn't know that the original recording of Rocky Mtn Way was done with a jerry-rigged set-up. Cool! The kids today are so lucky—everything (pretty much) has already been invented so all they have to do is play and (for the most part) not worry about the tech.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
I must say this is the first time I have ever heard someone claim than an Ed.D. is superior to a PhD, which he did at the very beginning. In the circles where I once traveled, the Ed.D. was looked upon with rolling eyes as an 'easier' and less rigorous path than a PhD. I've just started to listen to this show.....
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
The effect being used in that linked Youtube clip sounds like a Vocoder, indeed.
But the thing you're thinking about in that second paragraph is not a Vocoder, it's Anteres Auto Tune software/hardware, which you can read about here.
dB
jkoci
Watcher of the Skies
jkoci
Watcher of the Skies
Schuyler
Misanthrope
I agree with David. It is POSSIBLE that we could construct a device to communicate, and that topic is worth pursuing.
As far as this guy, I'm a bit perplexed. Rorke has spent a tremendous amount of time on the Spiricom issue, and his conclusion is that a) it's fake, and b) there's a disinformation project associated with it.
The thing is, there's so much more to this story that didn't get out. I believe there are at least a couple of hours of voice tape. I have a cassette copy. And the 'Technical Manual' that came out about this is also quite complex. I got a copy from Meek himself many years ago. I kind of considered it a coup on my part because it was out of print. Now, of course, both the voice tapes and the book are easily available on-line, so it's a moot point.
As I remember there is quite a lot of technical detail on the tapes as 'Mueller' and Meek were trying to figure out how to revise the device to work better. If it is an elaborate hoax, you have to wonder how badly they screwed up. If they were after some sort of monetary gain, bzzt: Epic Fail. Interesting idea coupled with poor execution.
My real question is why Rorke has stayed with this for so long and why he is compelled to promote it in the way he has. I will do a mikec and proclaim bafflement.
As far as this guy, I'm a bit perplexed. Rorke has spent a tremendous amount of time on the Spiricom issue, and his conclusion is that a) it's fake, and b) there's a disinformation project associated with it.
The thing is, there's so much more to this story that didn't get out. I believe there are at least a couple of hours of voice tape. I have a cassette copy. And the 'Technical Manual' that came out about this is also quite complex. I got a copy from Meek himself many years ago. I kind of considered it a coup on my part because it was out of print. Now, of course, both the voice tapes and the book are easily available on-line, so it's a moot point.
As I remember there is quite a lot of technical detail on the tapes as 'Mueller' and Meek were trying to figure out how to revise the device to work better. If it is an elaborate hoax, you have to wonder how badly they screwed up. If they were after some sort of monetary gain, bzzt: Epic Fail. Interesting idea coupled with poor execution.
My real question is why Rorke has stayed with this for so long and why he is compelled to promote it in the way he has. I will do a mikec and proclaim bafflement.
jkoci
Watcher of the Skies
I just got done listening to the episode and the same thoughts crossed my mind.
Since 2004 I have been intrigued with the emerging "science" of EVP and have explored this phenomenon out in the field. This audio-based approach (IMO) is one of the most promising tools we find in our investigative box. I agree with Rorke's call for a standardized system of classification and applaud his suggestion that we should question the very process inherent in our belief about our beliefs. Taking it to the next step, I suggest we would be best served to ID the most viable investigative locations—those target areas that can demonstrate the most variety & intensity of phenomenal events worthy of our study. Then, we should marshall our resources; program in a well thought out approach that utilizes local participants, maximizes our investigative potential and gives us the best bang4duhbuck… or something like that…
Bobb999
Paranormal Novice
I've remained a regular listener, but haven't posted on the Forums for ages, but here goes...
The guest Dr. Rorke reminded me of Jacques Vallee's Messengers of Deception book when he talked about gov't infiltration of UFO and New Age groups and cults, and the spreading of disinformation by alphabet soup intelligence agencies. Like Vallee, Rorke speculates such activities may be in part for conducting psychological warfare experiments, or to guide cult beliefs,or even to influence beliefs in the culture at large in certain desired directions, for other shadowy reasons.
It sounds like Rorke's suggesting Andrija Puharich may have been a key agent used by gov't intelligence possibly in part to influence the culture toward adopting New Age beliefs such as channelling alien intelligences, even using important, well placed American families to do so by having them participate in "The Nine" project.
Rorke mentions Hal Puthoff of the CIA's SRI remote viewing program.
I've lately been following with interest the growing movement against the many abuses of Scientology. abuses against both members and ex-members. Rorke's mention of Puthoff brought to mind that several key pioneering SRI members were high ranking Scientologists: Hal Puthoff, Pat Price, and Ingo Swann all were. What's up with that?
Since L. Ron Hubbard viewed the US gov't as the enemy, why would he tolerate high level Scientologists doing secret work for the CIA, I wonder
-unless they were simultaneously working secretly on Hubbard's behalf too perhaps? L. Ron's eldest son, Ron Jr., who fell out with his father and went public with many allegations against Dad, has claimed his father sold information to Soviet Russian agents, specifically, detailed personal information gleaned from Scientology auditing sessions of Scientologists who happened to be Army brass who might have spilled info. Soviets would value. Perhaps L. Ron kept the Russians apprised of what was going on at SRI - just speculation.
Btw, since The Paracast likes to expose "bad actors" for what they are, I'd love to see The Paracast do a show on Scientology some time . I'm thinking ex-member and anti-Scientology activist Arnie Lerma would make a good guest. His site is full of fascinating material such as how Hubbard, a former stage hypnotist inserted hypnosis routines into Scientology "training" to hook people; how the e-meter and auditing can become physiologicallly and mentally addictive, giving users a temporary endorphin and emotional highs, bringing them back for ever more expensive auditing sessions; how Hubbard was a member of Aleister Crowley's OTO organization in the '40s, and how Crowley style "magick" was a big influence on Hubbard's thinking; the nutty sci-fi cosmology Hubbard presents as fact: the evil alien Emperor Xenu etc; the vast paranormal powers and spiritual enlightenment Scientologists are promised they'll acquire. But ex-members tend to say they never developed such powers and were sold a bill of goods (Ingo Swann may have been an ace remote viewer, but I suspect that was in spite of rather than because of Scientology)!
It could make for an educational and entertaining Paracast show, as well as being a valuable cautionary tale.
The guest Dr. Rorke reminded me of Jacques Vallee's Messengers of Deception book when he talked about gov't infiltration of UFO and New Age groups and cults, and the spreading of disinformation by alphabet soup intelligence agencies. Like Vallee, Rorke speculates such activities may be in part for conducting psychological warfare experiments, or to guide cult beliefs,or even to influence beliefs in the culture at large in certain desired directions, for other shadowy reasons.
It sounds like Rorke's suggesting Andrija Puharich may have been a key agent used by gov't intelligence possibly in part to influence the culture toward adopting New Age beliefs such as channelling alien intelligences, even using important, well placed American families to do so by having them participate in "The Nine" project.
Rorke mentions Hal Puthoff of the CIA's SRI remote viewing program.
I've lately been following with interest the growing movement against the many abuses of Scientology. abuses against both members and ex-members. Rorke's mention of Puthoff brought to mind that several key pioneering SRI members were high ranking Scientologists: Hal Puthoff, Pat Price, and Ingo Swann all were. What's up with that?
Since L. Ron Hubbard viewed the US gov't as the enemy, why would he tolerate high level Scientologists doing secret work for the CIA, I wonder
-unless they were simultaneously working secretly on Hubbard's behalf too perhaps? L. Ron's eldest son, Ron Jr., who fell out with his father and went public with many allegations against Dad, has claimed his father sold information to Soviet Russian agents, specifically, detailed personal information gleaned from Scientology auditing sessions of Scientologists who happened to be Army brass who might have spilled info. Soviets would value. Perhaps L. Ron kept the Russians apprised of what was going on at SRI - just speculation.
Btw, since The Paracast likes to expose "bad actors" for what they are, I'd love to see The Paracast do a show on Scientology some time . I'm thinking ex-member and anti-Scientology activist Arnie Lerma would make a good guest. His site is full of fascinating material such as how Hubbard, a former stage hypnotist inserted hypnosis routines into Scientology "training" to hook people; how the e-meter and auditing can become physiologicallly and mentally addictive, giving users a temporary endorphin and emotional highs, bringing them back for ever more expensive auditing sessions; how Hubbard was a member of Aleister Crowley's OTO organization in the '40s, and how Crowley style "magick" was a big influence on Hubbard's thinking; the nutty sci-fi cosmology Hubbard presents as fact: the evil alien Emperor Xenu etc; the vast paranormal powers and spiritual enlightenment Scientologists are promised they'll acquire. But ex-members tend to say they never developed such powers and were sold a bill of goods (Ingo Swann may have been an ace remote viewer, but I suspect that was in spite of rather than because of Scientology)!
It could make for an educational and entertaining Paracast show, as well as being a valuable cautionary tale.
Rocketsauce
Haagen-Dazs Addict
Db thanks for the info, your right I was totally talking about autotune. I'll have to read more about the vocoder if that's what was used in that clip it's very cool!
I think having a former Scientology insider on the show would be quite entertaining!
At one level I was surprised the guest spent so much time on this spiritcom research. But perhaps the psyops stuff is what keeps him going. That stuff is fascinating and incredible scary.
I think having a former Scientology insider on the show would be quite entertaining!
At one level I was surprised the guest spent so much time on this spiritcom research. But perhaps the psyops stuff is what keeps him going. That stuff is fascinating and incredible scary.
Gojira2006
Skilled Investigator
Definitely - A whole show on "dirty tricks" would be very informative . . . ! 