Kimball vs. Friedman (not really)

[Paul Kimball]

Stan Friedman will be making his return to the Paracast next week, in an interview that Gene and I are doing with him and Kathleen Marden about their new book, Science was Wrong: Startling Truths About Cures, Theories and Inventions "They" Declared Impossible.

If you have any questions, you know the drill - post them here, and we'll try to get to them during the show.

Note: I will not be talking to Stan about MJ-12 or Roswell!

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Stan Friedman will be making his return to the Paracast next week, in an interview that Gene and I are doing with him and Kathleen Marden about their new book, Science was Wrong: Startling Truths About Cures, Theories and Inventions "They" Declared Impossible.

If you have any questions, you know the drill - post them here, and we'll try to get to them during the show.

Note: I will not be talking to Stan about MJ-12 or Roswell!

Hi Paul,

Q.1 Mr Stanton Friedman what is the most credible Et/ UFO story and the worse skeptic you have to deal with :question:

Q.2 Mr Stanton Friedman and Mrs Kathleen Marden's whats your thoughts on Mr Barny & Mrs Betty Hill story being caught up in a disinformation operation regarding Et/UFOs:question: Furthermore, Mr Stanton Friedman what is your thoughts about the theories of so called 'NAZI inventions of fyling disc' before 1947?

Q.3 Mr Stanton Friedman what do you think of the 'exopolitics and Ufology' scene in 2010?

P.S. Just got your book this week

Cheers,
Blowfish

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Will Stan be wiling to discuss the abduction phenomenon and how it is researched? With the EW controversy, it appears that this is once again the hot topic in the field, and Stan's scientific background and experience will help to offer (hopefully) a somewhat unique and insightful view. Given his book on the Hill abduction, I assume he buys into abductions generally. If he needs to speculate (logically) to reach certain observations, that is fine -- logical speculation, like Mac Tonnies did about his Crypto-terrestrial hypothesis, is constructive when properly caveated. One can make the same comment about Jacques Vallee's thinking around the inter-dimensional aspect of UFOs.

For example, what does he make of the fact that experiencers almost uniformly claim that their abductors examine their reproductive and nervous systems, but never investigate their cardiovascular systems (unlike human doctors)? Even if this is recovered by hypnosis, doesn't this fact tell us something? Does he have any views on Dr. John Mack's work, a trained psychiatrist, which appears to foot with Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Hopkins? How about the paranormal aspects of the Hill abduction case (I recall that Betty's lost earrings from the abduction, along with some leaves from the yard, were subsequently found on their kitchen table)? Was there any evidence that the Hills had multiple abduction experiences, or had other paranormal activity occur to them, or do they fall into the 'Travis Walton camp'?

Some of this may cause Stan to move beyond a "nuts-n-bolts" discussion into areas where the facts may lead one to speculate about strange (yet undiscovered?) science. If this ends up being a standard "nuts-n-bolts" discussion, then it will be like his prior interviews. If he is willing to take a few steps beyond his past topics, then this could be fascinating.

 

[ascended_master]

I know Mr Friedman wrote the foreword to Frank Feschino's "Shoot Them Down" & I remember him talking about his own research on the matter. What in his view is the best evidence for any "Shoot Downs" & has he come across any later anomalous losses of aircraft associated with UFO activity. Also, does Mr Friedman have any views on the future of scientific UFO study, what would he do to change the field for the better in view of his experiences in the field, both good and bad. What mistakes could we learn from & what approach would be most fruitful in future. I always enjoy Mr Friedmans contributions & I'll look forwards to this broadcast. Thanks!

 

[ArchieBedford]

For example, what does he make of the fact that experiencers almost uniformly claim that their abductors examine their reproductive and nervous systems, but never investigate their cardiovascular systems (unlike human doctors)? Even if this is recovered by hypnosis, doesn't this fact tell us something? Does he have any views on Dr. John Mack's work, a trained psychiatrist, which appears to foot with Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Hopkins? How about the paranormal aspects of the Hill abduction case (I recall that Betty's lost earrings from the abduction, along with some leaves from the yard, were subsequently found on their kitchen table)? Was there any evidence that the Hills had multiple abduction experiences, or had other paranormal activity occur to them, or do they fall into the 'Travis Walton camp'?

Yes, it would be interesting to hear Stan's views on this important topic. He and Kathy did a commendably thorough job on the Hill case in "Captured." Has he, or has Kathy, personally investigated other cases? If so, would he/they be prepared to discuss them and their detailed thoughts on the whole phenomenon - which they obviously agree is real?

Since the demise of Philip Klass, has any new (CIA-linked?) pro-active professional debunker emerged to replace him? What are Stan's thoughts nowadays on the CSICOP operation and its instigators/motives?

 

[Paul Kimball]

Yes, it would be interesting to hear Stan's views on this important topic. He and Kathy did a commendably thorough job on the Hill case in "Captured." Has he, or has Kathy, personally investigated other cases? If so, would he/they be prepared to discuss them and their detailed thoughts on the whole phenomenon - which they obviously agree is real?

Since the demise of Philip Klass, has any new (CIA-linked?) pro-active professional debunker emerged to replace him? What are Stan's thoughts nowadays on the CSICOP operation and its instigators/motives?

Archie,

If you have any specific evidence that shows Klass was linked to the CIA as related to his UFO research / opinions, please present it. Otherwise, impugning someone who is dead and can't defend himself isn't going to fly here.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Xylo]

I think an important question to ask is: Why is Stan Friedman so adamant about the "ETH" sourcing of the UFO phenomenon when there are other viable hypotheses, which are just as viable from a physics standpoint? (ala MacTonnies' Crypto Terrestrial hypothesis, or the extra-dimensional hypothesis.) Is there some mathematical or logical reasoning behind this rigorous defense?

 

[Kieran]

I think an important question to ask is: Why is Stan Friedman so adamant about the "ETH" sourcing of the UFO phenomenon when there are other viable hypotheses, which are just as viable from a physics standpoint? (ala MacTonnies' Crypto Terrestrial hypothesis, or the extra-dimensional hypothesis.) Is there some mathematical or logical reasoning behind this rigorous defense?

Great questions. Well there is nothing wrong with the ETH hypothesis, but there is no evidence these objects can travel of into space. Stan is damned sure these vehicles are space vehicles, well how, does he know that? I love to hear his evidence? Not stories, real evidence? if he is speculating i am fine with that.

 

[ArchieBedford]

Well there is nothing wrong with the ETH hypothesis, but there is no evidence these objects can travel of into space. Stan is damned sure these vehicles are space vehicles, well how, does he know that? I love to hear his evidence? Not stories, real evidence? if he is speculating i am fine with that.

Well Kieran, records exist of these objects provoking encounters at nuclear missile installations in the US, Russia and other places and then being tracked going up to 100,000 feet and more before military radar systems lose them (study Robert Hastings' research in "UFOs and Nukes"). 100,000 feet up is outer space.

Then consider the reported astronaut encounters from Mia and other missions, the disputed anomalies on the Moon and Mars, and a whole lot of other evidence suggestive of deep-space capabilities. It seems to follow logically that any theory of purely terrestrial origin, implying design capabilities intended only for operation in our atmosphere, falls short. So many different types and sizes of craft are reported, and so many different kinds of humanoid-looking entities, that terrestrial (or "crypto-terrestrial") origin looks extremely unlikely. The Earth is relatively young, out here on the edge of the galaxy. Billions of star systems, even if only a fractional percentile have planets in the "Goldilocks zone" are older by billions of years. The ETH is almost certainly correct, IMO.

---------- Post added at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------

If you have any specific evidence that shows Klass was linked to the CIA as related to his UFO research / opinions, please present it.

Paul, I make no such claims and frankly don't care that much. I never met Philip Klass but personally know many who knew him well. You must be aware that many people believe CSICOP had covert CIA connections. I don't know all their evidence but to reference the existence of this fairly widespread belief in a chat forum is hardly controversial. There's a separate thread going on about Klass somewhere else on the Paracast forum right now, and I agree that might be the place to discuss it.

You might consider asking Stan about Klass though. You know their long history of conflict - all instigated by Klass.

 

[Ron Collins]

I would like to know where Stan stands on High Strangeness and its many manifestations as they are linked to UFO sightings. He typically sidesteps these questions. I would also like to know his opinions on government disclosure (assuming that they know something) and how much if any the government should release. Along these same lines, does he see any evidence that many top international governments are hiding information from their various peoples and is there collusion between them.

 

[dyingsun]

The show is 2 hours long. That means there should be about 4 questions total--there has never been someone more happy to hear their own voice than Friedman.

Lance

Lance, I respectfully disagree.While Mr. Friedman surely seems to like the (in comparison) little exposure he gets, it is more then well deserved.The problem lies in the questioner(is that an english sentence?), not in his answers.Ask the man something not asked before, and I'm sure he'll be more then happy to reply.
For what it's worth, I respect the man.

 

[bobheck]

Lance, I respectfully disagree.While Mr. Friedman surely seems to like the (in comparison) little exposure he gets, it is more then well deserved.The problem lies in the questioner(is that an english sentence?), not in his answers.Ask the man something not asked before, and I'm sure he'll be more then happy to reply.
For what it's worth, I respect the man.

Lance, I also, with all due respect, disagree with your assessment of Friedman. I have read many of his books and listened to many of is speeches. Stanton Friedman is not only well educated and very respected in this field -- he is also a very gifted speaker. He holds your interest for the entire duration, and never drifts to fringe subjects or esoteric discussions. He is always grounded in fact and scientific theory. I respect Stanton Friedman greatly and his contributions to ufology.

 

[Xylo]

Hey, all I said is that he loves to hear himself talk. I have seen several Q&A sessions with him where each of his answers lasted 10 minutes or more. Once he starts talking it's hard to get a word in. So I predicted very few questions. It wasn't a slam on him otherwise.

Lance

I have to agree with you Lance.

Friedman does like to talk. He's said it before-he likes being in the spotlight. However, like one of the other posters said, he doesn't sidetrack into "space brothers" or discuss much more than the facts, as he sees them, and his opinion about those facts.

 

[Ezechiel]

This should be an excellent show providing the interview is well structured. If it can take a direction outside the pre-programmed stuff he's accustomed to respond to, this should be beyond awesome !!

Since Friedman is a fundamental 'nuts and bolts' guy, I'd love to get his take on Michio Kaku's idea of sentient civilization evolutionary scale (0 to 3) and how a type 3 would structure or reorganize the galaxy it's exploiting. Has he thought about the implication of the presence of such an evolved entity in our own galaxy and would it make sense that abduction events are part of a galactic effort to monitor and structure the evolution of all self-aware species under its control ?

The Vandenberg base missile event...

and the Malmstrom missile incident.....



etc.. etc... seem to point to the kind of interference, I would expect from 'higher authority' dictating limits to our behavior.

• What does he think the vested interests of these entities are regarding our planet and its life forms ? (why would they bother with this tiny planet)
• Does he think humans were seeded on this planet and are part of a 100,000 year experiment ? What is his best guess concerning the phenomenon ?
• Do humans really have ultimate control over their fate ? ... if not, is human technology, at this point in time, pushing the limits of what is tolerable by a currently unknown 'higher authority'.
• Could the entire phenomenon be earth based ?

What sense does he make of Vandenberg, Malmstrom, Rendelsham incidents, why are UFO's seemingly obsessed with nukes

 

[Paul Kimball]

I think this episode will be best remembered for me saying that UFOs are boring, followed by a switch back to non-paranormal topics.

Having said that, we did discuss the UFO phenomenon for a bit, because Stan and Kathy have a chapter on it in their book Science Was Wrong, and we also touched upon the subject of the alleged alien abduction phenomenon, and the use of hypnosis in particular. Other subjects covered included climate change / global warming, eugenics / genetic engineering (including, much to the chagrin in doubt of our more right wing listeners, a Marxist analysis of what a revised eugenics program could mean for our future), the pharmaceutical companies and their relationship to science and government, morality and ethics in science, the past, present and future of space flight, and a whole lot more. At one point, I also got the chance to call Wehrner von Braun a war criminal, which I've always wanted to do.

Honestly, I think the show could easily have gone another two hours - there's lots of interesting stuff in their book worth discussing. It was fun.

Paul

 

[Ezechiel]

I think this episode will be best remembered for me saying that UFOs are boring, followed by a switch back to non-paranormal topics.

IMHO, UFO's by themselves are boring. What shouldn't be boring is the science or framework that would support their presence, appearance and physics-defying behavior in earthly skies.

As our own science evolves, our perception of the phenomena has a better chance of evolving than consulting the local shaman

If Stanton Friedmans views on the phenomena hasn't evolved since the 1960's, then UFO's are truly boring. What he thought of Michio Kaku's ideas and especially what a type 0 civilization like us would be able to decode from type 3 civilization activities might have been great....

.... better luck next time I guess

 

[Paul Kimball]

IMHO, UFO's by themselves are boring. What shouldn't be boring is the science or framework that would support their presence, appearance and physics-defying behavior in earthly skies.

As our own science evolves, our perception of the phenomena has a better chance of evolving than consulting the local shaman

If Stanton Friedmans views on the phenomena hasn't evolved since the 1960's, then UFO's are truly boring. What he thought of Michio Kaku's ideas and especially what a type 0 civilization like us would be able to decode from type 3 civilization activities might have been great....

.... better luck next time I guess

Ideas aren't boring if they're correct. Newton was right about gravity - it wasn't boring then, and it isn't boring now. Stan may well be right about the ETH... indeed, in the preamble to the show, I talk at length about why I think the ETH is by far the most logical non-prosaic explanation for UFOs. Where Stan and I disagree is whether the ETH has been proven to be a fact. But anyone who says the ETH is boring, in my opinion, is nuts... although I blame the ETFacters for taking the "gee whiz" wonder out of it, in effect making what should be an amazing theory (that aliens from other worlds are visiting us) all about US, and how we're covering it up. That's what bores me. The aliens, if they're out there (or here)? They would be truly exciting!

Rest assured, Michio Kaku popped up on the conversation.

 

[Ezechiel]

Where Stan and I disagree is whether the ETH has been proven to be a fact.

I think the H in ETH is hypothesis lol. If its not hypothesis then you're talking about the un-scientific ETR (Reality-Religion... take your pick lol).

However, I think ETH is a direction of exploration that has a relatively High potential of improving its credibility with time

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Ideas aren't boring if they're correct. Newton was right about gravity - it wasn't boring then, and it isn't boring now. Stan may well be right about the ETH... indeed, in the preamble to the show, I talk at length about why I think the ETH is by far the most logical non-prosaic explanation for UFOs. Where Stan and I disagree is whether the ETH has been proven to be a fact. But anyone who says the ETH is boring, in my opinion, is nuts... although I blame the ETFacters for taking the "gee whiz" wonder out of it, in effect making what should be an amazing theory (that aliens from other worlds are visiting us) all about US, and how we're covering it up. That's what bores me. The aliens, if they're out there (or here)? They would be truly exciting!

I have always been fascinated by the story that Vallee reports in one of his books -- the story of the French farmer who took three rifle shots at a UFO. The first shot hit metal, the second shot went through a 'substance' that the farmer stated sounded like a bullet passing through a phonebook, and the final shot went through thin air. Vallee thought that the farmer's testimony was credible. UFOs certainly may be from somewhere else, but this fact pattern also tells you there may be an 'inter-dimensional' element to it (cf. the UFO merely using an invisbility, or cloaking, technology).