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Randall

J. Randall Murphy
After listening to her false claim that the vaccines are experimental, and her ignorance of why vaccine mandates are necessary and the history dating back to American Revolutionary War, I can only presume she is not qualified to be a college professor and should, instead, work at something for which she is qualified, perhaps the McDonalds cashier position. But she will have to be masked and, for most fast food restaurants, vaccinated. Yes, she should be fired on the spot for incompetence!
When you get your PhD in Ethics let me know.
 

Fat Dave

Paranormal Novice
For a professor of ethics, I found it concerning that she never explained why it is unethical for an employer to mandate vaccinations. However, she did spread disinformation, framed her little pop quiz in a disingenuous leading manner, and then cried at the end, which is unprofessional. While she fails to demonstrate the unethical behavior of her university, she herself behaves unethically with the falsehoods and the framing of the quiz. And if she intended the crying to elicit sympathy for her predicament, she would be acting in an extremely unethical manner. I presume she has sufficient technical knowledge about systems of ethics to earn a PhD in the subject, but any critical thinker would look at that mess of a video and see she doesn't practice what she professes, as a professor.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
It doesn't take a PhD to know she isn't qualified to teach at a college.
She's only been teaching ethics for 20 years without incidence, but because her assessment of vaccine mandates doesn't agree with yours — suddenly now she's wrong and you know better?

Your comments just prove that you still just don't get it: Debates about the efficacy of the vaccine and whether or not it's experimental, are all irrelevant in principle ( she says so right in the video ). The unethical part is coercing people to take an injection of anything against their will. It could be the elixir of life itself. It doesn't matter. If I were religious, I'd call these mandates evil. As a Star Wars fan, I would say a great hand of darkness is upon us. You're either with the Empire or with the Resistance.

Even hospital staff around the world ( the ones you were so concerned about ) are protesting the mandates. Many vaccinated people are also against them. Why? — because they get it. I can only hope that someday you will too. Together we might have been a small beacon of hope for those who still believe that words like freedom and truth matter. It would have been easy to discuss this in the context of conspiracy theories and bring balance to it, but I can't do that ( or anything else for that matter ) with someone who favors treating people the way these mandates do.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Vaccine mandates are both ethical and legal. The history of both is long. Freedom and truth do matter. But you don’t have the freedom to possibly infect others with contagious diseases when there’s a proven option to protect people.

This is worth debating. But not on a paranormal radio show.
 
It's up to the individual going on the current debates around the world in democracies. Unless you live in a tyrannical regime. The concern is a.number of cases of doubled vaccinated have died of Covid-19. While Corprations want fully vaccinated populations and booster jabs are coming in order to save shared holders portfolios. When media tells you it just be the flu after well will not hold my breath it's been going for over nearly two years. Vaccine corporations lobby groups are making billions in profits and be naive not to see number of politicians are share holders in way or another someone always makes money in a crisis through history.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
You forget the obvious, that if you refuse the vaccine, become infected and pass it on to others, what about their freedoms?

Vaccine mandates are common and lawful. As with most Americans, my son had to get vaccinated on a number of childhood diseases to be admitted to school. This is quite normal.

No, COVID-19 is not just the flu. While vaccines cannot provide 100% protection, roughly 95% of the people with COVID in ICU beds in many parts of the U.S. are unvaccinated. It's time to get the message. And the vaccine is free here, and the drug makers sell the doses to the government at a reduced negotiated rate.
 

Fat Dave

Paranormal Novice
Yeah. I can’t think of a worse way to discuss vaccination than as conspiracy theory on a paranormal podcast with a significant percentage of conspiracy-susceptible listeners.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Antivaccine conspiracies are killing people. Believers are among the people occupying ICU beds who will never survive the experience. They are stories of some who begged their doctors and nurses for vaccines from their hospital beds. They were too late.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Vaccine mandates are both ethical and legal.
Being legal doesn't make an action ethical. I'm not even sure vaccine mandates are legal everywhere either.
The history of both is long. Freedom and truth do matter. But you don’t have the freedom to possibly infect others with contagious diseases when there’s a proven option to protect people.
As mentioned before, your ethical position appears to rest on a belief in utilitarianism — that which brings about the the greatest good for greatest number of people, as opposed to preserving the rights, freedoms, and dignity of individuals. Also, as I've attempted to illustrate in the past, there is a break in the chain of logic there.

If we're to invoke utilitarianism as a rationale for ethical decision making, then there's nothing to justify calling such things as slavery unethical, because all it needs to do is bring about a greater good for a greater number of people in a given situation, which in the past has been the case with slavery. In the case of vaccine mandates, coercing people into taking a pharmaceutical product or reducing them to second class citizens does exactly the same thing.

AVM-01a.png

Now, you are entitled to reject that, but denial doesn't make it less true. It simply means you feel justified if that's what happens, because in your mind it serves a "greater good". In contrast I don't see any greater good being served by such discrimination and I won't associate myself with those who do.

This is worth debating. But not on a paranormal radio show.

Plenty of "paranormal" radio shows deal in conspiracy theories, and there's plenty of room to do that with this subject. Apart from that, I would submit that under the circumstances, even if that weren't the case, it would be less responsible not to bend the rules in order to assist in whatever small way we can, than to cop-out by invoking some sort of strict content rule — but it's your show.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
You don't have the right to shoot people on 5th Avenue, or drive without a seat belt.

Debates over vaccination are about politics, and people who take the wrong position end up not just being vulnerable to infection at a far greater rate than the vaccinated, but able to infect other people as well. That is the issue you don't seem to grok.

Again, vaccine mandates date back to the Revoluntary War. They have been found legal by the Supreme Court, and there are U.S. government regulations about employee health and safety (OSHA for example) that make mask and vaccine mandates legal.

I do not have the freedom to hurt you, nor do you have the freedom to hurt me. Do you understand yet?

As to the show, no it is not relevant, and there will be no exception; well, unless ET talked about it in their alleged contacts with humans.
 

Elendil

Paranormal Maven
Randall, you're really overreacting here. Creating a parallel between evil or slavery and vaccine mandates is just not right. Someone giving out a vaccine mandate doesn't have evil intent towards the people getting vaccinated. In this case it's the political class which is also getting vaccinated. On the other hand, creating a parallel between a shot which is - as the current evidence suggests - harmless for a huge majority of vaccinated and years of enslavement, labor coercion and exploitation is completely unreasonable.

As for mandates - yes, they have existed and do exist in many countries all over the world. At specific times, whether those be wars, natural calamities or pandemics, you need specific actions in place purely because the nature of the situation dictates it. If your city is under siege and food is scarce, food rationing and other measures just need to be implemented. And there's no way around it. If the vaccines are the only available weapon against in a pandemic (and the history of vaccines has proven that so far) - then mandates are a perfectly sound measure.

I'll just post a link here with Chomsky recently talking about vaccines and mandates in a very reasonable way. I think he explains the situation well in a couple of minutes and I can only agree. Please skip to 00:37:38:

 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
He summarizes it quite well. The stupidity displayed over vaccines and mask mandates is incredible. We have states in desperate straits where governors are moaning about vaccines. But every last one of those hacks has been vaccinated. They don't care about anyone but replacing Trump as the liar-and-authoritarian-in-chief.
 

Martin W.

Paranormal Novice
You forget the obvious, that if you refuse the vaccine, become infected and pass it on to others, what about their freedoms?
Hi Gene ... my comment is not directed at you ... neither was my post #34 ... (although it appeared that way)

The point I was trying to make is that if I do not get vaccinated and then pass COVID on to someone else I am not harming their freedoms.

They were free to not get vaccinated , just like me , we are playing on a level field and took our chances .... our choices may turn out to be wrong but that is a mistake we both made.

Worst of all are the vaccinated who insist I do so also .... how can I harm them ? ... did they not get the shot to protect themselves from fools like me ??? ... that is the contradiction I meant in my post 34.

Unless of course the vaccinated folks do not actually trust the vaccine .... AHEM !!!!

........................................................................................................

Sidenote which proves nothing

Many confirmed reports that the vaccine causes blood clots in some people.

I have friends who have an 82 year old mother in good health and lives in an apartment complex with other seniors .... she didn't want the vaccine but all the others got it so to keep harmony she reluctantly decided to get the vaccine.

Next day she was very ill ... went to the hospital and died that night from a blood clot.

Double tragedy for the family .... 2 weeks earlier her 56 year old son who runs the family farm had won a $24k new grain bin in a contest .... knowing cameras and news media would be there when it was delivered he spent two days preparing a site and cleaning up his yard .... brutal hot temperatures and he got sunstroke but could not get a medical appointment because of COVID restrictions clinics are shut down except for emergencies ... so he went to bed and died that night .

OH the IRONY .... all of our health care workers have been vaccinated twice .... some even got 3rd booster .... yet will not let the public in .... last spring I broke my little finger ... over the phone my doctor told me to make a homemade splint and keep it on for 8 weeks (it worked) ... glad I didnt have heatstroke.

best wishes.

.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
You forget the obvious. No vaccine is 100% effective. Your Illusion of freedom still puts innocent people at risk, and some will be vaccinated. It’s time we put this discussion to bed. We do not want to see people harmed due to all this anti-vax misinformation. This thread is closed. There is another COVID-19 thread that will stay open for awhile.
 
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