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Is America Doomed?

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cottonzway said:
WTF are you talking about, Cap?
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Nationalism. As a philosophy. As a word. It's definition is the same everywhere. Always.

I can't help but notice you didn't answer my question, so I'll break it down and try again: Do you NOT see American flags EVERYWHERE you go? Are those who wear the uniform not deified, regardless of their actions (Abu Gharab, Guantanamo, etc)? Do you not consider America the greatest and best and most perfect country there is to the exclusion of all else anywhere? Are those who are critical of America not generally spat upon, called treasonous and worse? And finally, do you not judge your fellow Americans by how they measure up against each of the preceding criteria?

Tell me where I missed something.
 
There is no way that an armed populace could take on the US military establishment, Cotton. The guns that we would need are already illegal. We would need heavy machine guns, fully automatic ones, lots of them and lots of ammo. We would also need other goodies, like tanks and airplanes and shit, which we do not have. The police and military are fully equipped with the best weaponry anywhere on the planet. That's a battle that the population would lose, amigo.
 
Chuckleberryfinn said:
There is no way that an armed populace could take on the US military establishment, Cotton. The guns that we would need are already illegal. We would need heavy machine guns, fully automatic ones, lots of them and lots of ammo. We would also need other goodies, like tanks and airplanes and shit, which we do not have. The police and military are fully equipped with the best weaponry anywhere on the planet. That's a battle that the population would lose, amigo.
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I hear Bill Cooper lasted a few minutes in his gun fight with a swat team. :p
 
cottonzway said:
The military and law enforcement will not go along with any ideas like that. This is not Nazi Germany or Communist Russia/China. No matter how much our foreign policy is fucked up, in large those who serve this country love American principals, they are not turning their guns on Americans. That is what truly ruins a country and that will not happen in the US.
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That's why they would bring in foreign troops to handle it... probably Eastern Euros.
 
Chuckleberryfinn said:
There is no way that an armed populace could take on the US military establishment, Cotton. The guns that we would need are already illegal. We would need heavy machine guns, fully automatic ones, lots of them and lots of ammo. We would also need other goodies, like tanks and airplanes and shit, which we do not have. The police and military are fully equipped with the best weaponry anywhere on the planet. That's a battle that the population would lose, amigo.
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I disagree.

I disagree in principal because I do not think it will get to that point. The THREAT of armed chaos is enough to back off any insane concepts IMO. I think you also seriously lack faith and understanding on some of our vets and special forces members that would starting shooting at people. How heavily armed they are and skilled they are. There are some serious gun nuts in this country and thank god for them. lol
 
I would just like to add to Cotton's post that there are something like 20 million members of the "Gun Culture" and only a few hundred thousand widely scattered police and military.

20th century America is gone , 21st century America is still being decided on,we're trying to save the best and make adjustments to the rest. :)
 
cottonzway said:
Nationalism is NOT the same everywhere. Explain that?
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Ok, just stop for a moment and consider this:

Do you think that all the civilian citizens of Nazi Germany were inhuman Jew-hating monsters? Do you think that all the people who lived in the South US during slavery were terrible human beings?

No, by a GREAT majority they were simply ordinary people, ordinary people who had been fully indoctrinated into the mythology created for them by the ruling class of their society.

Nationalism is the same everywhere. It is marked by ordinary, mostly decent people brainwashed to see the world in black and white, in a manner that serves the ruling classes.
 
maninblack said:
How long will America last as a country? Have you considered moving from America? If so, where? I think the USA is doomed.
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The passage from British colony to independant country resolved problems of that era and defined the rights of the citizens of those times.

The right to bear arms (Defense against foreign aggressors Britain, Spain...)
Taxation without representation (Boston tea party - abusive British taxation)
etc....

The world is in a constant state of flux and with modern transportation and communications it is now a global village.

A country is doomed if it fails to adapt and adjust to new realities. Greed, lack of proper regulation and management, lack of vision and oversight/supervision, can potentially destroy it.

The 'nuts and bolts' of a country need to be tightened and renovated once in a while or else it quickly falls apart like a broken dool.

If you're proud of your country and worth your salt, you should also be able to fix it. Not run away like a coward ;)
 
Ezechiel said:
The 'nuts and bolts' of a country need to be tightened and renovated once in a while or else it quickly falls apart like a broken dool.

If you're proud of your country and worth your salt, you should also be able to fix it. Not run away like a coward ;)
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All of my dools are in perfect operating order and I ain't runnin' nowhere.
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skunkape said:
All of my dools are in perfect operating order and I ain't runnin' nowhere.
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"Dools"? Better check again I think something's not quite working...
 
CapnG said:
"Dools"? Better check again I think something's not quite working...
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Some of the gee-gaws and whatnots need a little maintenence, but the dools are dandy. I'm sure of it.
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BrandonD said:
Ok, just stop for a moment and consider this:

Do you think that all the civilian citizens of Nazi Germany were inhuman Jew-hating monsters? Do you think that all the people who lived in the South US during slavery were terrible human beings?

No, by a GREAT majority they were simply ordinary people, ordinary people who had been fully indoctrinated into the mythology created for them by the ruling class of their society.

Nationalism is the same everywhere. It is marked by ordinary, mostly decent people brainwashed to see the world in black and white, in a manner that serves the ruling classes.
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I don't think people in Nazi Germany were all "monsters", but I do know they were not an armed citizens. They were fearful of not going along because it would mean they would be killed. They had no means to defend themsleves from tyranny. So they went along with the program in exchange for life.

America doesn't have to go down that road because the principals laid down for the country armed the citizens for the very purpose to ensure what has happened to societies previously and after it's birth do not come to America.

The rules of a land change when the citizens are far more informed (no internet in Nazi Germany warning people like we can now of issues like this) and no means to resist.
 
skunkape said:
They revoked my thinga-ma-bob license after the Chuck-E-Cheese's incident.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
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No real loss there. Chuck-E-Cheese is a wretched hive of scum and villany...
 
cottonzway said:
I don't think people in Nazi Germany were all "monsters", but I do know they were not an armed citizens. They were fearful of not going along because it would mean they would be killed. They had no means to defend themsleves from tyranny. So they went along with the program in exchange for life.

America doesn't have to go down that road because the principals laid down for the country armed the citizens for the very purpose to ensure what has happened to societies previously and after it's birth do not come to America.

The rules of a land change when the citizens are far more informed (no internet in Nazi Germany warning people like we can now of issues like this) and no means to resist.
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The idea of empowering the average man so that they are better equipped to resist the coercion of the powerful has much appeal to me.

But I can't help but feel that empowerment through weapons is like slaying Frankenstein's monster and replacing him with the werewolf. It is prolonging a cycle that has repeated throughout history.

What we need these days is empowerment through knowledge. I am a pacifist and I don't agree with the idea of fighting fire with fire, but I could be wrong.
 
BrandonD said:
I am a pacifist and I don't agree with the idea of fighting fire with fire, but I could be wrong.
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I hope you never have to realize you were wrong. I have been robbed at gunpoint. I was unarmed, it was only 40 bucks and I got off with being ventilated.
I have thwarted an armed robbery of my home because I met the punk with a shotgun and took away his little piss-ant .25. I let him live. I didn't involve the police. I do not expect he will ever even think about robbing a home again. I do not even want to imagine what would have went down if I was not home and my girlfriend had to deal with that scumbag.
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cottonzway said:
I don't think people in Nazi Germany were all "monsters", but I do know they were not an armed citizens. They were fearful of not going along because it would mean they would be killed. They had no means to defend themsleves from tyranny. So they went along with the program in exchange for life...
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and YET, once the people became the ARMY with all the weapons, they still marched in unison to the song of the tin-pot sadist with a small willie, who couldn't get a job...

how bizarre, when all they had to do was get up, en masse, and shoot the bastard and his bastard friends.
 
AnnetteMarie said:
and YET, once the people became the ARMY with all the weapons, they still marched in unison to the song of the tin-pot sadist with a small willie, who couldn't get a job...

how bizarre, when all they had to do was get up, en masse, and shoot the bastard and his bastard friends.
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Hallelujah.
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skunkape said:
I hope you never have to realize you were wrong. I have been robbed at gunpoint. I was unarmed, it was only 40 bucks and I got off with being ventilated.
I have thwarted an armed robbery of my home because I met the punk with a shotgun and took away his little piss-ant .25. I let him live. I didn't involve the police. I do not expect he will ever even think about robbing a home again. I do not even want to imagine what would have went down if I was not home and my girlfriend had to deal with that scumbag.
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Like that Byrds song, I do think there's a time for everything, and likewise a time for force. But I can't help feeling that the western world generally errs on the side of too much force rather than too little. So I kinda feel that the pacifist stance in general is the one that will bring people back into balance.

But like I said, I could be wrong here.
 
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